JTB Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 24 minutes ago, sillent said: I honestly shouldn't even respond to your post but do you think top notch players esprcially bigs would be that unwilling to play with Trae? Top notch bigs that are in great situations like Giannis and Davis....Yes! those two are on teams that can win a championship this season. Why on earth would they want to give that up to play on a hawks team that’s still looking for their identity. yes trae is great we all know this. But I’m much more interested in going after bigs who are not in a great situation with their team already....which is why I’ve spoken out about Drummond and Adams. They aren’t on the level of Giannis and Davis but they aren’t in great situations at all. This is where we can influence the stardom of trae young to get guys like that here. but trust me giannis and Davis are going to only look for winning situations at this point in their career even though they are both very young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Popular Post AHF Posted December 13, 2019 Moderators Popular Post Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 On the OP, I actually think Collins will fix a lot of this. I expect a similar turnaround to last season when he comes back. We should be much more competitive and excited to watch. He balances our offense, upgrades our defense, reduces the load the rookies are expected to carry and allows us to bench flawed players who are forced to play major roles in the rotation in his absence. He won’t turn us into a contender this year but that was never in the cards. I expect a significant impact. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 hours ago, sillent said: On a deflating back to back only the Knicks or Warriors, possibly Cleveland at the state we were in. Hopefully we snap into it after this day off LOL . . are we going to play Cleveland 10 times in a row? So you're banking on the Hawks playing the very worst teams in the league, to get back on track? That was the thinking after we beat the Warriors. No sir. For us to get back on track, we first have to start closing out ANY game that we have the lead in, going into the final 3 minutes. We've lost way too many close games, but also have had way too many 20+ blowouts in which we weren't competitive at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 12/11/2019 at 10:53 PM, NBASupes said: 3. You saw Daniel Gafford. He too needs to be on the Windy City Bulls. The big issue I have with Bruno is his size. It makes it be where he needs to be so smart and skilled like Grant Williams to justify him being on the court for longer than 5 mins. If you just watch him, his BBIQ is low, his feel for the game is troublesome, he lacks strength needed as a center which is normal for a rook and he lacks positional versatility on offense. But he is talented and I do believe in Bruno and a buyer of his stock long term. I would say the same things about Cam. The difference is that Cam was given the playing time to work through all of that while on the court. It seems as if Cam has turned the corner. Bruno, on the other hand, has seen his playing time reduced because the coach believes that the only spot he can play on the floor, is the 5. To me, that is absolutely ridiculous. That guy can absolutely play the 4. He moves much better than Jabari on defense. He's shown the ability to at least make the outside shot on occasion. And he can post people up, something that this coaching staff refuses to take advantage of from all of our bigs, because they're fully committed to our pick and roll offense. And all of the metrics show that the team just functions much better when he's one of the bigs that is out on the court. When you look at Trae's best player grouping, the best 5 man lineup from a points differential standpoint contains Bruno in his #1 and #4 lineups. When you narrow it down to who Trae plays the best with in a 2-man lineup, Bruno is the only guy in which he has a ( + ) number with. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/y/youngtr01/lineups/2020 And the guy that Bruno plays the best with, is Hunter. Why? Because they're both active on defense and can get stops, which also helps Trae's offense when teams can't set up a double team at halfcourt. Jones' numbers are empty, because he's solely relying on Trae to throw him lobs to score. He doesn't even offensively rebound well enough to get put back scores. On defense, he can block a shot on occasion, but his inability to move and cover up for people absolutely kills this team defensively. That's why he consistently has fouls called on him, because he's always out of position. I firmly believe that Trae needs to be playing with 2 bigs out on the court, instead of a 3rd shooter, especially when only 2 or 3 people can really shoot on the team. If we're going to keep trying to run this pick and roll offense, we can't allow a point guard and an athletic big or wing to keep trapping Trae. Someone with size needs to go out on the perimeter to help free up Trae. Someone who can really set a good screen, and get to the basket. It's still amazing to me that Bruno has assisted on 19 three point FG makes this season. When I get the time, I'll see how that compares with everyone else. Right off the bat, I'll say that's top 4 on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted December 13, 2019 Moderators Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 Backup PG who can shoot is the biggest need by far. We need defensive rebounding but Collins will help that. A vet who can play both forward positions and shoot would be nice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 @NBASupes if hawks were to get lucky enough to draft Edwards or Lemelo ....what in your opinion happens with your boy Cam and Huerter ? i personally believe if Edwards got drafted he’s an easy start at the 2 and he’ll win that battle in training camp. Ball I’m not so sure he’ll start over cam or huerter...so I guess I’m more interested in what your thoughts are with cam in particular if we get Edwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted December 13, 2019 Moderators Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, JTB said: @NBASupes if hawks were to get lucky enough to draft Edwards or Lemelo ....what in your opinion happens with your boy Cam and Huerter ? i personally believe if Edwards got drafted he’s an easy start at the 2 and he’ll win that battle in training camp. Ball I’m not so sure he’ll start over cam or huerter...so I guess I’m more interested in what your thoughts are with cam in particular if we get Edwards? Cam has the advantage of being able to play SF effectively. Might pit Hunter and Cam against each other in a battle for minutes with Huert and Edwards similarly at odds. Tough to keep that many talented guys for wing positions long-term. Probably would need a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, AHF said: Cam has the advantage of being able to play SF effectively. Might pit Hunter and Cam against each other in a battle for minutes with Huert and Edwards similarly at odds. Tough to keep that many talented guys for wing positions long-term. Probably would need a trade. That’s actually heartbreaking if they all live up to expectations. I would much rather Ressler open up the wallet and get ready to pay lux tax if they pan out. but that’s just me being butt hurt on such a situation. But I’d think we keep at least 3 of the 4 if they were all good no matter what making one of them a sixth man Edited December 13, 2019 by JTB 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High5 Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 It's a little soon to be worried about losing 1 of our 4 great wings. I hope we have that problem. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudBall Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) Don't fall too in love with our young players. Typically only 1 out of Heurter, Reddish, Hunter will turn out to be a legit starter for a contending team for us. The others will be a ok role player off the bench or traded for a better piece. Edited December 13, 2019 by BudBall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, High5 said: It's a little soon to be worried about losing 1 of our 4 great wings. I hope we have that problem. 48 minutes ago, BudBall said: Don't fall too in love with our young players. Typically only 1 out of Heurter, Reddish, Hunter will turn out to be a legit starter for a contending team for us. The others will be a ok role player off the bench or traded for a better piece. yeah I was ONLY referring to if they all pan out and meet their expectations. If that happens that would mean Schlenk nailed every draft pick he makes which I’m not expecting but I disagree with both of you to an extent. IF all the wings we draft end up good I don’t think any of them should be traded shall they all reach or get close to their highest floor/ceiling but what are the real odds of that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted December 13, 2019 Premium Member Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, High5 said: It's a little soon to be worried about losing 1 of our 4 great wings. I hope we have that problem. I'd rather have the problem than not. The trick is if you are trading any of them, timing has to be perfect - can't do it too soon or wait to long. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted December 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said: I would say the same things about Cam. The difference is that Cam was given the playing time to work through all of that while on the court. It seems as if Cam has turned the corner. Bruno, on the other hand, has seen his playing time reduced because the coach believes that the only spot he can play on the floor, is the 5. To me, that is absolutely ridiculous. That guy can absolutely play the 4. He moves much better than Jabari on defense. He's shown the ability to at least make the outside shot on occasion. And he can post people up, something that this coaching staff refuses to take advantage of from all of our bigs, because they're fully committed to our pick and roll offense. And all of the metrics show that the team just functions much better when he's one of the bigs that is out on the court. When you look at Trae's best player grouping, the best 5 man lineup from a points differential standpoint contains Bruno in his #1 and #4 lineups. When you narrow it down to who Trae plays the best with in a 2-man lineup, Bruno is the only guy in which he has a ( + ) number with. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/y/youngtr01/lineups/2020 And the guy that Bruno plays the best with, is Hunter. Why? Because they're both active on defense and can get stops, which also helps Trae's offense when teams can't set up a double team at halfcourt. Jones' numbers are empty, because he's solely relying on Trae to throw him lobs to score. He doesn't even offensively rebound well enough to get put back scores. On defense, he can block a shot on occasion, but his inability to move and cover up for people absolutely kills this team defensively. That's why he consistently has fouls called on him, because he's always out of position. I firmly believe that Trae needs to be playing with 2 bigs out on the court, instead of a 3rd shooter, especially when only 2 or 3 people can really shoot on the team. If we're going to keep trying to run this pick and roll offense, we can't allow a point guard and an athletic big or wing to keep trapping Trae. Someone with size needs to go out on the perimeter to help free up Trae. Someone who can really set a good screen, and get to the basket. It's still amazing to me that Bruno has assisted on 19 three point FG makes this season. When I get the time, I'll see how that compares with everyone else. Right off the bat, I'll say that's top 4 on the team. Not really, Cam is a lot more aware on both ends. Other than that, yeah, their both raw as hell. Just that Cam is raw mainly on offense, even more raw than Bruno although things are improving fast and defensively, it's not even close. Cam is polished for a rookie, Bruno like 99% of all rookie centers is a work in progress as the NBA 5 is night and day different from the college 5. I don't need data points on Bruno. When he plays like trash, he barely plays 4 minutes. When he plays good, he gets extended minutes. It's that simple. But you could make a case early on that both needed to be in College Park but I could make a bigger one for Bruno and the biggest reason is the transition to college to NBA center for all players. Most NBA centers played in the G league. It's just a tougher position for rookies in general. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NBASupes Posted December 13, 2019 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, JTB said: @NBASupes if hawks were to get lucky enough to draft Edwards or Lemelo ....what in your opinion happens with your boy Cam and Huerter ? i personally believe if Edwards got drafted he’s an easy start at the 2 and he’ll win that battle in training camp. Ball I’m not so sure he’ll start over cam or huerter...so I guess I’m more interested in what your thoughts are with cam in particular if we get Edwards? Nothing. Take BPA. Right now, Cam and Kevin are cheap. We need to let nature play it's course. Milwaukee didn't give Giannis a full five year max because they were saving it for Parker. Can't assume nothing. Just let them play it out. Right now, only Trae has proven to be a franchise player. While Hunter is not a true franchise player, I think he is a franchise key piece. Right now, Cam is a project with Bruno. Both Kev and John are core pieces. We are too young and to unestablished to be claiming this player is this for us franchise wise Edited December 13, 2019 by NBASupes 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 48 minutes ago, NBASupes said: Nothing. Take BPA. Right now, Cam and Kevin are cheap. We need to let nature play it's course. Milwaukee didn't give Giannis a full five year max because they were saving it for Parker. Can't assume nothing. Just let them play it out. Right now, only Trae has proven to be a franchise player. While Hunter is not a true franchise player, I think he is a franchise key piece. Right now, Cam is a project with Bruno. Both Kev and John are core pieces. We are too young and to unestablished to be claiming this player is this for us franchise wise Good post. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 5 hours ago, NBASupes said: Not really, Cam is a lot more aware on both ends. Other than that, yeah, their both raw as hell. Just that Cam is raw mainly on offense, even more raw than Bruno although things are improving fast and defensively, it's not even close. Cam is polished for a rookie, Bruno like 99% of all rookie centers is a work in progress as the NBA 5 is night and day different from the college 5. I don't need data points on Bruno. When he plays like trash, he barely plays 4 minutes. When he plays good, he gets extended minutes. It's that simple. But you could make a case early on that both needed to be in College Park but I could make a bigger one for Bruno and the biggest reason is the transition to college to NBA center for all players. Most NBA centers played in the G league. It's just a tougher position for rookies in general. LOL @ he gets extended minutes. He's broken 20 minutes only 1 time this season. He's played less than 10 minutes in 10 games. He doesn't even get extended minutes when he plays good, because LP normally has his set rotations. Heck, Cam doesn't even get extended minutes when he plays well. I was wrong. Bruno is 5th in 3 point assists: - Trae Young: 51 - Jabari Parker: 28 - Deandre Bembry: 24 - Kevin Huerter: 22 - Bruno Fernando: 19 - Cam Reddish: 17 - Evan Turner: 15 - Alex Len: 14 - Vince Carter: 11 - Damian Jones: 9 - Allen Crabbe: 8 - Tyrone Wallace: 7 - John Collins: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillent Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 20 hours ago, JTB said: Top notch bigs that are in great situations like Giannis and Davis....Yes! those two are on teams that can win a championship this season. Why on earth would they want to give that up to play on a hawks team that’s still looking for their identity. yes trae is great we all know this. But I’m much more interested in going after bigs who are not in a great situation with their team already....which is why I’ve spoken out about Drummond and Adams. They aren’t on the level of Giannis and Davis but they aren’t in great situations at all. This is where we can influence the stardom of trae young to get guys like that here. but trust me giannis and Davis are going to only look for winning situations at this point in their career even though they are both very young. I agree. I believe we will be in that winning situation by the time Giannis is a free agent. Our squad should look more enticing & also provide longevity as our young core continues to get better. On another note "shoot for the stars you might atleast hit the moon". I like Drummond but he doesn't fit the time line of our squad. Also you talk as if there is no hope for us to make the playoffs this year. Every team goes thru ups & downs throughout the season. Hopefully we're getting our down out the way early but we've been competitive on most nights with some of the best teams (Bucks, Heat, 76ers, Nuggets, etc) & we're nowhere near our best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillent Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 19 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said: LOL . . are we going to play Cleveland 10 times in a row? So you're banking on the Hawks playing the very worst teams in the league, to get back on track? That was the thinking after we beat the Warriors. No sir. For us to get back on track, we first have to start closing out ANY game that we have the lead in, going into the final 3 minutes. We've lost way too many close games, but also have had way too many 20+ blowouts in which we weren't competitive at all. Lol... I didn't say to stay on track once we get back on the train should keep rolling. Besides the L.A squads, Rockets & Nets I don't recall too many 20+ blowouts. Losing that many close games is a sign of a young/new team trying to figure it out (chemistry/how to win in the nba). Be calm be patient. Trae, Luka & Donavon Mitchell really spoiled fandom as a whole. Now for some crazy reason too many expect rookies and young players to be the stars they are supposed to be right out of the gate. Imagine if the Bucks thought that about Giannis & got rid of him too soon. We kept 6 players from last year & 2 of them(Collins, Huerter) have barely played. You try putting a squad together & then going up against the best competition in the world & see how that works. Many stars have teamed up to form super teams & still couldn't win. Lakers did it twice. Gary Payton, Kobe, Karl Malone, Shaq Steve Nash, Kobe, Pau Gasol, Dwight. Nets lost alot of close games the year before last & broke out the next season once they figured it out. Just saying " Baby Steps" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 On 12/12/2019 at 12:20 PM, NBASupes said: Lol, so when he has awful games, is that not skewed either? Like I said, some of you need to think before you speak. Right now we are seeing him get closer to his college percentages from 3 and his estimated pro percentages is very high and not too far from what Klay was projected to have. Give him time. As I said early in the season, he will go to his expected norm in time. His offensive metrics went up a full point this month. Sadly, his defensive metrics went down .7 points after yesterday's game where Cam got abused on the screens. By far his worse defensive game this season along with LAC. 44 FG% and 39% from three and an over 50 TS is positive. The negative is his defense v. Chicago and his free throw shooting this month (58.3). He has way more bad games than he does good games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted December 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said: He has way more bad games than he does good games. Offensively? Yeah. No agrument from me on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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