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Hollinger hates our rookies


bleachkit

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58 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

Hunter will be just fine imo.  Cam is overrated at this point.  I wanted us to take Clarke.  

I liked Clarke too, but everyone said he was too old.  They always want the 19 year old that can run and jump but can't do anything basketball skill wise.

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Clarke has been great so far although I think some of his numbers are unsustainable and am also waiting for him to do a little creating of his own on offense.  He is playing a limited role and doing a great job of it.  He’ll need to expand beyond what he is now to be more than a role player which was always the biggest question for him.  He was expected to be ready and has been for sure.

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10 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

I've got nowhere else to stash this and it's unworthy of it's own thread, but the ESPN RPMs are out.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

3 Quiz Questions:

(1) Trae ranks third-best in ORPM. Who's #1 and #2? (this one's kinda easy, if you assume Giannis isn't one of them)

(2) Trae ranks second-worst in DRPM. Who's #431? (I kinda gave this away a couple days ago)

(3) As Trae might have guessed by now, Kris Dunn ranks 1st in DRPM among all players classified as PGs w/ 15+ MPG. WHO currently ranks 2nd among the PGs???

 

~lw3

1) Davis and Lebron

2) Trae is 2nd worst?  Wow. The worst would have to be a person getting a lot of minutes on a bad team.   Julius Randle?

3) 2nd in DRPM?  I want to say Pat Beverly, but I think this may be a trick question.  I'll stick with Pat though.

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8 hours ago, benhillboy said:

This is why I can never fully get behind Trae.  Offensive skills historic.  Defensive tools and productivity just about cancel them out making him a strictly box office player (sigh).   We saw flashes last season of him trying to form a respectable floor game for his size but that has regressed to pretty much nothing.  Can’t set a screen nor run through one.  Can’t run off the ball nor impede his man from doing so.  Guys like Nunn, Smart, and Van Fleet always post ungodly +/- versus my man with only a fraction of his on ball skills.

All small guard have traditionally had a big that could protect him as his man gets into the paint.  Trae's defense is much improved this year.  But that 2nd worst in DRPM is shocking.  We don't play good individual defense, but our team defense may be even worse.  The lack of mobility of Jones and Len also contributes to Trae's horrible number, because they are horrible in defending the pick and roll ( at least from the eye test ).

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11 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

I've got nowhere else to stash this and it's unworthy of it's own thread, but the ESPN RPMs are out.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

3 Quiz Questions:

(1) Trae ranks third-best in ORPM. Who's #1 and #2? (this one's kinda easy, if you assume Giannis isn't one of them)

(2) Trae ranks second-worst in DRPM. Who's #431? (I kinda gave this away a couple days ago)

(3) As Trae might have guessed by now, Kris Dunn ranks 1st in DRPM among all players classified as PGs w/ 15+ MPG. WHO currently ranks 2nd among the PGs???

 

~lw3

LOL . . can I change my answer to Luka + someone else?  I don't know why I had Luka blocked completely out of my mind.  I'll say Luka and Lebron.

 

Answer:  Lebron and HARDEN?   I got Harden on my fantasy team.  He's been extremely erratic this season.  But I guess he's had enough huge games to be in the top 2.

Luka is 6th.

Edited by TheNorthCydeRises
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(2) Trae ranks second-worst in DRPM. Who's #431? (I kinda gave this away a couple days ago)

Miles Bridges?  Never would've guessed that either.   Not even close on Julius Randle.  They have him as a + defender and 101st in the league ( 1.03 ) . . . Vince Carter is tied with Julius, which really makes you think if this stat is legit or not.  NO way Vince is a better defender than Cam.  Bruno ranks 105th in this category, the 4th highest on the Hawks behind Collins, Hunter, and Carter.

 

(3) As Trae might have guessed by now, Kris Dunn ranks 1st in DRPM among all players classified as PGs w/ 15+ MPG. WHO currently ranks 2nd among the PGs???

Chris Chiozza is 1st?  LOL.  But more shocking . . . DENNIS Schröder IS 3RD?

Schröder is also 3rd in overall RPMs and 5th in RPM Wins at PG.  Trae is 38th in overall RPM and 19th in RPM Wins.

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Eh.  Hunter is what we thought but honestly i can see where he could have some serious game that i didn't think would be there in the NBA.  His size and ball handling is could enough to score well in the paint and his shooting is really good (most of the time).   

Cam.  I mean who projected him as a solid 3 & D guy this early in his career.  And we didn't take Cam to be a 3&D guy.  We took him to evenutally be more than that.   The fact that he is showing flashes in early december at his age is a great sign. 

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Really pissed me off that he stated Cam has “limited dribbles” ....that’s so so far from the truth! 
Cam can dribble just fine! Now his decision making is what gets him in trouble at times . 
for example early on he got stripped a lot going to the basket but that wasn’t a result of not having handles it was a result of poor overly aggressive attacking but you see now that hasn’t happened lately as he fixed that .

even pierce said that cam at first seemed to think playing aggressive only means attacking the basket overly aggressive but playing aggressive is a combination of things 

lastly cam can get by his opponents but they may recover well enough to contest his layup or dunk attempt from what I noticed but I actually agree with nique and cam really need to get his pull up jumper off the dribble working.

cam has shown enough flashes to where I don’t think we should be extremely worried. He has some very good tools it’s just about bringing it all together.

 

i hate when these national so called experts make reviews cause they likely only watched 1 or 2 games then went right to the stats to generate a story and by no means am I defending Reddish I’m just sharing what I see cause I watch every game from start to finish 

and to end this reddish defense is freakin awesome at this point in his young career. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s elite at defense and just good on offense in his prime years.

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Honestly, I am not a fan of Hunter especially as a #4 Pick. I thought he would be A LOT better and overall he has disappointed. Cam is what I expected to be at this point as a young project player and it was a high upside pick at #10. I keeping my eyes closer onto to Cam.

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1 hour ago, BudBall said:

Honestly, I am not a fan of Hunter especially as a #4 Pick. I thought he would be A LOT better and overall he has disappointed. Cam is what I expected to be at this point as a young project player and it was a high upside pick at #10. I keeping my eyes closer onto to Cam.

I think hunter will be just fine . I think there’s better ways to use him than what we are doing so I do have my gripes on that part!

for example I’d like to see more post ups for hunter especially when there’s a switch with a smaller defender on him! 
 

Hunter has good size and length for the 3 and he shown good ability to post up in college so I think that’s something LP should add to his scheme to get him better efficient shots

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23 hours ago, High5 said:

There are a ton of eventually good players that didn't look special <2 months into their careers. He's already an above average 3pt shooter on good volume and he's been a fairly solid defender. ESPN just released their RPM stats and he's rated as a positive defender (and our best not counting John's 5 games). There's a lot of value in him simply becoming a great 3&D. But he's also shown the ability to hit some tough shots in traffic and get some high quality looks from ~15 in. He just hasn't hit them consistently yet. 

Still, I understand having doubts. I'm just generally patient with rookies and even more so now after what we saw from Trae last season. 

I understand that, and I'm not dogging Hunter. But the move itself is looking very questionable. We didn't just spend a top 5 pick on Hunter, but we gave up Taurean/17th pick and another top 10 pick in order to get him. Even if Hunter becomes a really solid 3D guy that's still looking like a massive overpay for such a player IMO.  

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I remember draft time when everybody was saying we could not add so many rookies....

So now how people feel about that? What if we would have Hayes, Reddish and NAW or Clarke? Don't you think we would look better? What if we would have Devonte Graham and Mitchell Robinson? Would you really play Damion Jones, Turner, Len , Crabbe, Bembry... Ahead of this guys???? Really?

There is nothing wtong adding rookies if talent is there.

Edited by gurpilo
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2 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

I remember draft time when everybody was saying we could not add so many rookies....

So now how people feel about that? What if we would have Hayes, Reddish and NAW or Clarke? Don't you think we would look better? What if we would have Devonte Graham and Mitchell Robinson? Would you really play Damion Jones, Turner, Len , Crabbe, Bembry... Ahead of this guys???? Really?

There is nothing wtong adding rookies if talent is there.

For sure. We have roster spots used up by players like Tyrone Wallace and that other PG that I can't even remember what his name in. Gladly would take two other  top 18 picks instead of those never will be's

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10 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

I remember draft time when everybody was saying we could not add so many rookies....

So now how people feel about that? What if we would have Hayes, Reddish and NAW or Clarke? Don't you think we would look better? What if we would have Devonte Graham and Mitchell Robinson? Would you really play Damion Jones, Turner, Len , Crabbe, Bembry... Ahead of this guys???? Really?

There is nothing wtong adding rookies if talent is there.

Robinson isn't a rookie and I'd say the rest of those guys aren't making much of a case that you can win with a ton of rookies.  All of the play on pretty terrible teams.  Also there is an opportunity cost issue at play here as well - you got Hunter instead of Hayes and NAW.  You can't do all 3.  So I agree with you that it would be nice to add more top talent but it isn't like we were walking away from this draft with Hunter, Hayes, Reddish, NAW, Clarke, etc.  The only picks we ditched were the second rounders and I would have preferred us to keep or more of the ones we sold but you don't get Graham, Hayes, etc. with those picks.

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hace 1 hora, AHF dijo:

Robinson isn't a rookie and I'd say the rest of those guys aren't making much of a case that you can win with a ton of rookies.  All of the play on pretty terrible teams.  Also there is an opportunity cost issue at play here as well - you got Hunter instead of Hayes and NAW.  You can't do all 3.  So I agree with you that it would be nice to add more top talent but it isn't like we were walking away from this draft with Hunter, Hayes, Reddish, NAW, Clarke, etc.  The only picks we ditched were the second rounders and I would have preferred us to keep or more of the ones we sold but you don't get Graham, Hayes, etc. with those picks.

2018 draft you keep Graham and draft Robinson instead of Spellman as most wanted. This year we do not make a trade for 4th

Young/Graham

Huerter/NAW

Reddish/FA/Crabbe

Collins/Parker

Robinson/ Hayes/ Len

 

that is a much better and balanced team in my opinion

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