Ask Supes

[JayBirdHawk]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

There has been some trade talks between Atlanta and Min in general. Rosas really likes the #6 spot and looking at his options in how to move up from #17. It's going to take a lot to get Atlanta to move from this spot picks wise but there has been some interest from Atlanta in Jarrett Culver. I haven't heard that Rosas is okay with moving him yet but I do know Rosas wants another top 10 pick and is targeting Okoro, Toppin, and Deni. It's going to take a lot to get Atlanta to move off #6 is what he's been told. He was told KAT, Okogie, Russell, Malik Beasley are their core pieces at this time. No mention of Culver was crazy to me even though offensively, he was bad. 

#6 for #17 and Culver??? Doesn't seem enough value for #6. And I don't think the Hawks want to move out of the top 10.

Or are you saying Minny is trying to move up from #17 into the later lottery and use that.

Maybe a 3way with Phoenix.

Trade 1: Phoenix trades Oubre and #10 gets #17, they get the salary dump they are looking for and move down 7 slots.

Trade 2: Minny trades #10, Culver, James Johnson gets #6. Minny gets their 2 top picks and move Johnson's contract.

Trade 3: Hawks trade #6 gets #10, Culver and James Johnson. Hawks get a SG and backup PF and still have a top 10 pick.

 

 

[bleachkit]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

No way you trade him after 1 bad playoff series.  This was really his first year being a #1 or #2 scoring option.  If you've never been a legit 1st option, it takes time to adjust to defenses actually game planning for you, than you playing off of a main guy.  

I could see the same thing happening to John Collins if the Hawks make the playoffs next season, especially if the Hawks don't try to develop his scoring in the post or in isolation.  If he's relegated to a pick and pop and catching lobs guy, instead of developing his overall game, that's the type of player that could really be shut down in a playoff series. 

Trae, because all of the attention would be on to take the ball out of his hands ( ala what the Lakers are doing to Harden ), could struggle too.  But he'll also find a way to produce.  At that point, it would be up to the other guys to make open shots.

But I could definitely see Collins undergoing the same fate as Siakam in a playoff series.

Well they need another guy. FVV is probably leaving. Siakam and Lowry isn't enough. They play great team defense though, that keeps them in games. 

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

No way you trade him after 1 bad playoff series.  This was really his first year being a #1 or #2 scoring option.  If you've never been a legit 1st option, it takes time to adjust to defenses actually game planning for you, than you playing off of a main guy.  

I could see the same thing happening to John Collins if the Hawks make the playoffs next season, especially if the Hawks don't try to develop his scoring in the post or in isolation.  If he's relegated to a pick and pop and catching lobs guy, instead of developing his overall game, that's the type of player that could really be shut down in a playoff series. 

Trae, because all of the attention would be on to take the ball out of his hands ( ala what the Lakers are doing to Harden ), could struggle too.  But he'll also find a way to produce.  At that point, it would be up to the other guys to make open shots.

But I could definitely see Collins undergoing the same fate as Siakam in a playoff series.

The difference between the two is most Toronto fans saw Siakam as the heir apparent to Kawhi, the guy they are building around.

Most Hawks fans see Collins in a complimentary role to Trae.

I do agree that Collins' overall game needs expanding. Adding the 3 is already in progress,  his next step is making plays out of the PnR when the lob isn't there. He has a nice turn around jumper from the post that can be used some more.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Well they need another guy. FVV is probably leaving. Siakam and Lowry isn't enough. They play great team defense though, that keeps them in games. 

The NBA analytics guys don't understand what it takes to win in the playoffs.  Analytics is good for quantifying the worth of role players. It's not good for building a playoff contender or champion.

All of those 120+ point games that you saw during regular season play, are thrown right out of the window in the playoffs.  Defense gets much better. Coaches tighten their rotations. And the guys who are most important in playoff basketball, are the guys who can create and make their own shots.  Role players still have to play.  But you can't depend on them to produce every night.

VanVleet is definitely leaving, because someone is going to grossly overpay for his services.  Not saying that he can't play, because he can.  But even he isn't a #1 or #2 type of scoring option. He does make big shots though, despite being D'd up by mini-Al Horford ( Grant Williams ).

Having said that, I would LOVE Freddy on the Hawks.  If we could get him at like 3 yrs - 40 million, I'd do that all day.  But some team is going to sign him at like 3 yrs - 50 or 55 million, then be mad because he can't consistently play like a #2 type of guy.

[JayBirdHawk]

21 hours ago, NBASupes said:

It had to do with Dedmon is all I know, no picks or anything like that. They really like the idea of moving up for Okongwu or Wiseman is what I was told but finding a deal that works for both teams is hard.

Hawks really like Derrick White but so do the Spurs but that's what it's going to cost to move swap picks. I was told it's highly unlikely. That a LMA deal is more likely if they can find the right suitor. Spurs are in a position where they want to cut some 2020-21 salary. 

Dedmon for LMA? saves SAS $9 million.

But will LMA be happy here in a role off the bench behing Capela and JC?

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The NBA analytics guys don't understand what it takes to win in the playoffs.  Analytics is good for quantifying the worth of role players. It's not good for building a playoff contender or champion.

All of those 120+ point games that you saw during regular season play, are thrown right out of the window in the playoffs.  Defense gets much better. Coaches tighten their rotations. And the guys who are most important in playoff basketball, are the guys who can create and make their own shots.  Role players still have to play.  But you can't depend on them to produce every night.

VanVleet is definitely leaving, because someone is going to grossly overpay for his services.  Not saying that he can't play, because he can.  But even he isn't a #1 or #2 type of scoring option. He does make big shots though, despite being D'd up by mini-Al Horford ( Grant Williams ).

Having said that, I would LOVE Freddy on the Hawks.  If we could get him at like 3 yrs - 40 million, I'd do that all day.  But some team is going to sign him at like 3 yrs - 50 or 55 million, then be mad because he can't consistently play like a #2 type of guy.

He's be an excellent signing for us, but like you said, it would be an overpay. Someone might even give him 20 to 25 per, no thanks. Paying B level players A money is the surest way to treadmill purgatory.

[JayBirdHawk]

19 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The NBA analytics guys don't understand what it takes to win in the playoffs.  Analytics is good for quantifying the worth of role players. It's not good for building a playoff contender or champion.

All of those 120+ point games that you saw during regular season play, are thrown right out of the window in the playoffs.  Defense gets much better. Coaches tighten their rotations. And the guys who are most important in playoff basketball, are the guys who can create and make their own shots.  Role players still have to play.  But you can't depend on them to produce every night.

VanVleet is definitely leaving, because someone is going to grossly overpay for his services.  Not saying that he can't play, because he can.  But even he isn't a #1 or #2 type of scoring option. He does make big shots though, despite being D'd up by mini-Al Horford ( Grant Williams ).

Having said that, I would LOVE Freddy on the Hawks.  If we could get him at like 3 yrs - 40 million, I'd do that all day.  But some team is going to sign him at like 3 yrs - 50 or 55 million, then be mad because he can't consistently play like a #2 type of guy.

Read something awhile back that said if FVV is leaving Toronto, he wants to go to a team where he can be the FOTF......Face Of The Franchise! Good Luck in NYK on the treadmill!!! 

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Read something awhile back that said if FVV is leaving Toronto, he wants to go to a team where he can be the FOTF......Face Of The Franchise! Good Luck in NYK on the treadmill!!! 

Everyone thinks the Knicks will sign him. But they have new management now and it's unclear what direction they will go. With Thibs probably defensive types. 

[NBASupes]

53 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

#6 for #17 and Culver??? Doesn't seem enough value for #6. And I don't think the Hawks want to move out of the top 10.

Or are you saying Minny is trying to move up from #17 into the later lottery and use that.

Maybe a 3way with Phoenix.

Trade 1: Phoenix trades Oubre and #10 gets #17, they get the salary dump they are looking for and move down 7 slots.

Trade 2: Minny trades #10, Culver, James Johnson gets #6. Minny gets their 2 top picks and move Johnson's contract.

Trade 3: Hawks trade #6 gets #10, Culver and James Johnson. Hawks get a SG and backup PF and still have a top 10 pick.

 

 

Of course, it's not enough value for #6. Especially if Atlanta asking SA for 11/Derrick White who's a core piece of the Spurs. 

Naw, MIN is trying to trade up without using their core pieces. Culver is one of the pieces they talked about. It's going to take a lot more than 17/Culver to move up to #6. What I was saying is I am surprised Culver isn't considered core considering he was a top 10 pick last year. Just about every other top 10 pick is considered a core piece from that core. Shit, in the lottery, only other player not considered core is Cam Johnson and Romeo Langford. 

I am not sure what they would need to do to get at #10. Considering what they do @1, could impact their cap space to take on salary. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

23 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Read something awhile back that said if FVV is leaving Toronto, he wants to go to a team where he can be the FOTF......Face Of The Franchise! Good Luck in NYK on the treadmill!!! 

LOL . . he's not ready for all that yet.  The kid barely shoots 40% FG.

Just imagine what he'd shoot if he got Trae Young type attention.

If Mini Al Horford can D him up, he's not ready for that #1 spot.

[kg01]

FVV is gonna be one of the worst contracts in the league.  He's a good piece, a great piece.  But methinks he's gonna struggle being a focal point but is gonna be paid as if he's a #1 option.  Yikes 

[NBASupes]

47 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The NBA analytics guys don't understand what it takes to win in the playoffs.  Analytics is good for quantifying the worth of role players. It's not good for building a playoff contender or champion.

All of those 120+ point games that you saw during regular season play, are thrown right out of the window in the playoffs.  Defense gets much better. Coaches tighten their rotations. And the guys who are most important in playoff basketball, are the guys who can create and make their own shots.  Role players still have to play.  But you can't depend on them to produce every night.

VanVleet is definitely leaving, because someone is going to grossly overpay for his services.  Not saying that he can't play, because he can.  But even he isn't a #1 or #2 type of scoring option. He does make big shots though, despite being D'd up by mini-Al Horford ( Grant Williams ).

Having said that, I would LOVE Freddy on the Hawks.  If we could get him at like 3 yrs - 40 million, I'd do that all day.  But some team is going to sign him at like 3 yrs - 50 or 55 million, then be mad because he can't consistently play like a #2 type of guy.

FVV is going to get a lot of money. He's about to be Tim Hardaway Jr overpaid. Phoenix, NYK, and a couple of other teams want him. 

[NBASupes]

42 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Dedmon for LMA? saves SAS $9 million.

But will LMA be happy here in a role off the bench behing Capela and JC?

I don't think he would have much of a choice. SA needs to resign some players and they don't want to trade Patty Mills.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This smells.  I don't see how Toronto moves into even the top 10 without including one of OG or Siakam, so that doesn't sound plausible. Even if they add in the max number of future picks and picks swaps...still not plausible.  They have the #29 pick this year. You can't count FVV as he is a FA. I don't see a lottery team trading their pick for 1 year of Lowry. Powell doesn't get them a lottery pick.

 

What's the general price tag for them?

Millsap has a number bigger one year potential offers as teams want in on 2021 FA. 12-15 million

Grant is expected to be a high end guy at 8-10 million on a multiyear. Some think he could get more from a major cap space team.

Plumlee is expected to get a lot of min offers and a couple 5-6 million dollar offers. I was told he's on the radar for GS.

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Millsap has a number bigger one year potential offers as teams want in on 2021 FA. 12-15 million

Grant is expected to be a high end guy at 8-10 million on a multiyear. Some think he could get more from a major cap space team.

Plumlee is expected to get a lot of min offers and a couple 5-6 million dollar offers. I was told he's on the radar for GS.

What about Torrey Craig?

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

No way you trade him after 1 bad playoff series.  This was really his first year being a #1 or #2 scoring option.  If you've never been a legit 1st option, it takes time to adjust to defenses actually game planning for you, than you playing off of a main guy.  

I could see the same thing happening to John Collins if the Hawks make the playoffs next season, especially if the Hawks don't try to develop his scoring in the post or in isolation.  If he's relegated to a pick and pop and catching lobs guy, instead of developing his overall game, that's the type of player that could really be shut down in a playoff series. 

Trae, because all of the attention would be on to take the ball out of his hands ( ala what the Lakers are doing to Harden ), could struggle too.  But he'll also find a way to produce.  At that point, it would be up to the other guys to make open shots.

But I could definitely see Collins undergoing the same fate as Siakam in a playoff series.

He really wasn't the same after the groin injury. I think it would be extremely short sided to trade him. He looked like a future star before that injury.

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

What about Torrey Craig?

All I heard on him was he's returning to Denver. Nothing more, nothing less. He's a higher priority signing than Plumlee is for them.

[Dean Walker]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

So are you saying that small ball is great in the regular season, but a failure in the playoffs?

 

 

or Atlanta

Definitely.

just imagine Trae,Lamelo,cam,jc,Capela

man that would be amazing.

[terrell]

15 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I do have an update on MIN - LaMelo Ball stakes. As previously mentioned, I do not think Ball will be traded to a top 10 team in this lottery. The reason for that is because the teams that are interested aren't in the top 10. Indiana, Toronto, and Detroit have showed the most interest in Ball and Detroit is not willing to trade a future 1st much less a 2021 1st. Two new teams have entered the LaMelo interest party: Orlando Magic and OKC Thunder. I was told that the interest from OKC is lukewarm though but they have a lot of assets to move up. I was told Orlando has serious interest but Jon Isaac is NOT available. Orlando is building around Isaac. He also represents the DeVos family extremely well. They love him. They also aren't trading Bamba either unless it's significant is what he stated. Orlando does offer somethings MIN likes. 

There has been some trade talks between Atlanta and Min in general. Rosas really likes the #6 spot and looking at his options in how to move up from #17. It's going to take a lot to get Atlanta to move from this spot picks wise but there has been some interest from Atlanta in Jarrett Culver. I haven't heard that Rosas is okay with moving him yet but I do know Rosas wants another top 10 pick and is targeting Okoro, Toppin, and Deni. It's going to take a lot to get Atlanta to move off #6 is what he's been told. He was told KAT, Okogie, Russell, Malik Beasley are their core pieces at this time. No mention of Culver was crazy to me even though offensively, he was bad. 

Hawks possibly trading down to 17? They better give us more than Culver. lol

[terrell]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The difference between the two is most Toronto fans saw Siakam as the heir apparent to Kawhi, the guy they are building around.

Most Hawks fans see Collins in a complimentary role to Trae.

I do agree that Collins' overall game needs expanding. Adding the 3 is already in progress,  his next step is making plays out of the PnR when the lob isn't there. He has a nice turn around jumper from the post that can be used some more.

Yep..

 

[NBASupes]

33 minutes ago, terrell said:

Hawks possibly trading down to 17? They better give us more than Culver. lol

Naw, I wasn't saying that. I was saying that Rosas wants to move up from 17 and they are truly targeting #6. Atlanta has shown some interest in Culver as a name that was brought up but it's going to take a lot more than #17/Culver to get Atlanta off of #6. Especially since Atlanta doesn't want to get out of the top 10.