Ask Supes

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

 

No, I love Cam, but no. PG24 that season was more in line with a Jayson Tatum now. He was getting MVP buzz

And yeah they gave Miami trouble, but didnt get it done. Would you give us the same credit as an 8th seed almost bouncing Indy out in the 1st round?

No Horford, we ran Pero Antic, Millsap and Mike Scott as our bigs and went 7 games with them, they the best record in the East.  
Does Voguls coaching philosophy stand up to Buds philosophy of 5 shooters? 
My point being, the better team won in each example. All had good coaching, but the better talent closed it out in the end. Size was not the X factor.

No he wasn't getting no damn MVP votes or even thought of for it. You must be getting your years mixed up, that was PG's 3rd season when he won Most Improved. He wasn't on no one's MVP watch list. His VORP was 4.4 and BPM was 3.8. He was no where close to the MVP race. He made the All Star game being 10th place in votes in the East for backcourt players. Jason Terry, Jrue Holiday, Raymond Felton, and many more had more votes for the All Star game. He was voted in by coaches. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2013_voting.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html

Anyway, I am not sure where you are going with this. 

You are all over the place right now. 

[NBASupes]

47 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

We completely went side ways on this thread. Sorry Supes lol

Any more scoops for us today

 

I haven't gotten anything outside of the Hield stuff. 

[Peoriabird]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

When you have LeBron, life gets easy.

Yeah cause people were saying the same thing about Kyrie until he left for Boston and then all that talk disappeared

[RedDawg#8]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

No he wasn't getting no damn MVP votes or even thought of for it. You must be getting your years mixed up, that was PG's 3rd season when he won Most Improved. He wasn't on no one's MVP watch list. His VORP was 4.4 and BPM was 3.8. He was no where close to the MVP race. He made the All Star game being 10th place in votes in the East for backcourt players. Jason Terry, Jrue Holiday, Raymond Felton, and many more had more votes for the All Star game. He was voted in by coaches. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2013_voting.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html

Anyway, I am not sure where you are going with this. 

You are all over the place right now. 

So then he was Pascal Siakam. Either way, Cam is not yet on the level of 3rd year Paul George. PG was already leading that team by then.

I believe Cam will get there someday, but that wasnt a good comparison on your end.

Im all over the place responding to you!

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

So then he was Pascal Siakam. Either way, Cam is not yet on the level of 3rd year Paul George. PG was already leading that team by then.

I believe Cam will get there someday, but that wasnt a good comparison on your end.

Im all over the place responding to you!

Last year Siakam, not this year's. I never said Cam was on that level. I said the level we hope Cam is on this year. David West and Hibbert were the leaders. PG24 was their best player. 

I am not following you right now. No one said Cam is already there yet. 

Naw, you just all over the place. 

[RedDawg#8]

55 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Last year Siakam, not this year's. I never said Cam was on that level. I said the level we hope Cam is on this year. David West and Hibbert were the leaders. PG24 was their best player. 

I am not following you right now. No one said Cam is already there yet. 

Naw, you just all over the place. 

Ok , you got it. 

[JTB]

18 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Nobody is discounting size. But size is just a piece of the puzzle. Size needs to be skilled. You can have size and be a piss poor rebounder. That doesnt help anyone (JJJ, Horford) 

I will say it one more time for the people in the back:

Versatility is the name of the game.

The Lakers are at their best when AD plays the 5. Everyone knows it. When they can run out Kuzma, AD, and Lebron, they are a force. They can run, they can shoot, and they can still control the glass.

Its really that simple. Clint is going to be a factor for us not just because he can defend the rim. But he can move, cover ground, run the floor, etc.
If all we needed was size then Damion Jones and Alex Len would have carried us, would they not? 

 

Good points but I did say “quality” when I first mentioned value of investing in the front court that sparked this little debate...

“i would love to have 4 quality bigs! Miami has just 1 and he’s hurt even if he were playing it’s not enough for all these big bodies.”

 

but this is for another thread another time.

[kg01]

19 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Rarely? This is a shit post and a hate post and you know it. I offer as much insight as I talk shit which is A LOT.

Eh, this post kinda illustrates what he's saying.

[RedDawg#8]

On 10/3/2020 at 5:16 PM, NBASupes said:

No he wasn't getting no damn MVP votes or even thought of for it. You must be getting your years mixed up, that was PG's 3rd season when he won Most Improved. He wasn't on no one's MVP watch list. His VORP was 4.4 and BPM was 3.8. He was no where close to the MVP race. He made the All Star game being 10th place in votes in the East for backcourt players. Jason Terry, Jrue Holiday, Raymond Felton, and many more had more votes for the All Star game. He was voted in by coaches. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2013_voting.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html

Anyway, I am not sure where you are going with this. 

You are all over the place right now. 

I want to revisit this. I was at the gym when you posted this so I didnt get to verify your response but, you were wrong here.

I was talking about the 2013-2014 season the entire time. The year Indy was the #1 seed, and we went 7 games as an #8 seed. 
http://www.espn.com/nba/bracket/_/year/2014

Paul George did in fact get some MVP buzz as he finished top ten in MVP voting that season. (KD won it in a landslide)
https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2014.html

That was PG's 4th year, which is also why I was confused as to why you compared him to a not even yet sophmore Cam.

So yes, I stand by what I said. You had your years mixed up bro, not me.

Carry on.

Edited October 5, 2020 by RedDawg#8

[NBASupes]

10 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I want to revisit this. I was at the gym when you posted this so I didnt get to verify your response but, you were wrong here.

I was talking about the 2013-2014 season the entire time. The year Indy was the #1 seed, and we went 7 games as an #8 seed. 
http://www.espn.com/nba/bracket/_/year/2014

Paul George did in fact get some MVP buzz as he finished top ten in MVP voting that season. (KD won it in a landslide)
https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2014.html

That was PG's 4th year, which is also why I was confused as to why you compared him to a not even yet sophmore Cam.

So yes, I stand by what I said. You had your years mixed up bro, not me.

Carry on.

And you are WRONG based on his 3rd year which Indiana took Miami to 7 games. You are stubborn and obviously refuse to admit fault. Just admit you were wrong dude. It's not that difficult.

You got your years messed up and trying to cover your ass. If I could neg you, I would and i don't neg people often

Jaylen Tatum is in his 3rd season right now. I don't know why you are being a f***ing d*ck. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by NBASupes

[AHF]

Let's drop the name calling and 4 letter words here.  You can talk about this without going there.

[RedDawg#8]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

And you are WRONG based on his 3rd year which Indiana took Miami to 7 games. You are stubborn and obviously refuse to admit fault. Just admit you were wrong dude. It's not that difficult.

You got your years messed up and trying to cover your ass. If I could neg you, I would and i don't neg people often

Jaylen Tatum is in his 3rd season right now. I don't know why you are being a f***ing d*ck. 

#3 Indy vs #1 Miami was 2013, his third year. 
 

#1 Indy vs #2 Miami was 2014, his 4th year.

That was the playoff year I had been referring too.

I dont get how you missed that when I described that post season in multiple ways, from our series against them in round 1, to PG being in his prime.

Those were all my words from jump.

YOU came at me saying it was wrong when the whole time you were simply thinking of a different year than the one I was portraying.

Honest mistake, on your part. 
Dont get all bent out of shape man lol

 

[AHF]

On 10/3/2020 at 2:46 PM, NBASupes said:

I wouldn't say rookie contract PG24 was prime PG. He was up and coming, basically what we hope Cam Reddish is this upcoming season. I also don't put the talent level on Hibbert and West on the same tier much less pier as prime LeBron, prime Wade, and prime Bosh. I also wouldn't remove the impact of George Hill and Lance Stephenson as well for that squad. 

The fact that they gave a team in Miami, some of the toughest series speaks values to his coaching and having the right personnel. They simply didn't have the talent to beat Miami. If they had prime PG, it might have been a different story or even prime George Hill. The Heat squads were nothing short of elite defensively. Some of the best defenders in the last 10 years as a squad. I really think you are underrating them right now for a narrative and I am not sure why? 

Yeah, LeBron is the most difficult opponent the game has ever seen. His ability to score, create for others, defend multiple positions, and dominate due to his physical, mental, and health gifts are just breathtaking and what he can do as an individual is rare and we are lucky to have a chance to see someone that good. 

 

On 10/3/2020 at 3:06 PM, RedDawg#8 said:

 

No, I love Cam, but no. PG24 that season was more in line with a Jayson Tatum now. He was getting MVP buzz

And yeah they gave Miami trouble, but didnt get it done. Would you give us the same credit as an 8th seed almost bouncing Indy out in the 1st round?

No Horford, we ran Pero Antic, Millsap and Mike Scott as our bigs and went 7 games with them, they the best record in the East.  
Does Voguls coaching philosophy stand up to Buds philosophy of 5 shooters? 
My point being, the better team won in each example. All had good coaching, but the better talent closed it out in the end. Size was not the X factor.

Isn't a possible that you guys were talking about two different years?

First, Supes mentions Indiana giving Miami trouble.  In 2012-13, Miami went 7 games against Indiana in the ECF.  Paul George was an All-Star and averaged 19.2, 7.4 and 5.1 in the playoffs.  Atlanta took Indiana to 6 games in the playoffs that year.

Second, Red talks about Atlanta going 7 games against the Pacers.  In 2013-14, Miami went 6 games against Indiana in the ECF.  Paul George was an All-Star, got MVP votes, and averaged 22.6, 7.6 and 3.8 in the playoffs.  Atlanta took Indiana to 7 games in the playoffs that year.

Both of these were seasons where PG was on his rookie contract.  Vogel and Spoelstra coached the teams both years.

[RedDawg#8]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

 

Isn't a possible that you guys were talking about two different years?

First, Supes mentions Indiana giving Miami trouble.  In 2012-13, Miami went 7 games against Indiana in the ECF.  Paul George was an All-Star and averaged 19.2, 7.4 and 5.1 in the playoffs.  Atlanta took Indiana to 6 games in the playoffs that year.

In 2013-14, Miami went 6 games against Indiana in the ECF.  Paul George was an All-Star, got MVP votes, and averaged 22.6, 7.6 and 3.8 in the playoffs.  Atlanta took Indiana to 7 games in the playoffs that year.

Both of these were seasons where PG was on his rookie contract.  Vogel and Spoelstra coached the teams both years.

Thats exactly what happened lol

Quite literally.

But because my comments about 2014 were first and his response was that I was wrong and he used 2013 to verify it, which I got pulled in to before realizing the mistake myself, I'm vindicated in this argument. 
 

But yes, both are right. My fatal  error was not catching HIS mistake right away.

Thats on me. 
 
Fair?

[AHF]

Just don't want to see you guys calling each other names or having to shut down this thread because of it.  Arguing about the year is less interesting than hearing each of your thoughts about the players in those years anyway.

[NBASupes]

20 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

Isn't a possible that you guys were talking about two different years?

First, Supes mentions Indiana giving Miami trouble.  In 2012-13, Miami went 7 games against Indiana in the ECF.  Paul George was an All-Star and averaged 19.2, 7.4 and 5.1 in the playoffs.  Atlanta took Indiana to 6 games in the playoffs that year.

Second, Red talks about Atlanta going 7 games against the Pacers.  In 2013-14, Miami went 6 games against Indiana in the ECF.  Paul George was an All-Star, got MVP votes, and averaged 22.6, 7.6 and 3.8 in the playoffs.  Atlanta took Indiana to 7 games in the playoffs that year.

Both of these were seasons where PG was on his rookie contract.  Vogel and Spoelstra coached the teams both years.

I believe he is just trying to prove me to be foolish, not trying to be accurate. If he does simple research, he would see that Indy took Miami 7 both years and that the Cam we hope for is year 3 PG which was why he mentioned Tatum who is also in year 3. Instead of accept that I was right, he tried to double down, got silly daps from foolish posters who I would consider to be "friends" which is really what pissed me off and why I got heated in the first place. 

He was always trying to make me look foolish and failing every step of the way. Let's just be honest. He has poor reading comprehension and it bit him in the ass. He isn't who I am really pissed it. Its Jay and Marco.

[RedDawg#8]

Time line:

Supes argues Vogels superior coaching philosophy around size, making Lakers players fit together etc...And brought up Lebrons Heat as an example of a team with a bad fit.

I bring up Voguls coaching philosophy couldnt beat Lebrons Heat back when he was with Indy, because talent trumps all. 

He argues reasons why Indy wasnt there yet, and says PG was in a similar place then as the Cam we hope to see next season (weird goal post, I know)

I call that out because PG was on a much different level getting some MvP buzz. (2014) One of the years they got bounced by Miami.

He says no Im confused cause he was only MIP back then (2013).

Back and forth, back and forth, here we are.

I stand by my point that Cam cannot be compared YET to 3rd year Paul George, let alone 4th year PG.

Better comps are Jayson Tatum this year to 4th year PG, or Pascal Siakim last year to 3rd year PG. Cam is not either, not yet.

That much we can agree on Supes.

Everything else (as in you dragging my name) is whatever at this point lol

We good now,

Truce?

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

Just don't want to see you guys calling each other names or having to shut down this thread because of it.  Arguing about the year is less interesting than hearing each of your thoughts about the players in those years anyway.

My hands are clean! Lol

[RedDawg#8]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I believe he is just trying to prove me to be foolish, not trying to be accurate. If he does simple research, he would see that Indy took Miami 7 both years and that the Cam we hope for is year 3 PG which was why he mentioned Tatum who is also in year 3. Instead of accept that I was right, he tried to double down, got silly daps from foolish posters who I would consider to be "friends" which is really what pissed me off and why I got heated in the first place. 

He was always trying to make me look foolish and failing every step of the way. Let's just be honest. He has poor reading comprehension and it bit him in the ass. He isn't who I am really pissed it. Its Jay and Marco.

Hey man,

Not to be that guy, but Miami and Indy only went 6 games in 2014.

Just wanted to make sure you knew that as you called me out, again.

What was that word you used... was it research?

I think it was.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Time line:

Supes argues Vogels superior coaching philosophy around size, making Lakers players fit together etc...And brought up Lebrons Heat as an example of a team with a bad fit.

I bring up Voguls coaching philosophy couldnt beat Lebrons Heat back when he was with Indy, because talent trumps all. 

He argues reasons why Indy wasnt there yet, and says PG was in a similar place then as the Cam we hope to see next season (weird goal post, I know)

I call that out because PG was on a much different level getting some MvP buzz. (2014) One of the years they got bounced by Miami.

He says no Im confused cause he was only MIP back then (2013).

Back and forth, back and forth, here we are.

I stand by my point that Cam cannot be compared YET to 3rd year Paul George, let alone 4th year PG.

Better comps are Jayson Tatum this year to 4th year PG, or Pascal Siakim last year to 3rd year PG. Cam is not either, not yet.

That much we can agree on Supes.

Everything else (as in you dragging my name) is whatever at this point lol

We good now,

Truce?

My hands are clean! Lol

No one ever compared him to 3rd year PG in the first place. I said the Cam Reddish we hope to see next year. You keep putting words in my mouth and keep trying to change the narrative. Like I said, you aren't the person i have issues with right now for your behavior. Its Jay and Marco. Two posters I respect and I am deeply disappointed in right now.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He isn't who I am really pissed it. Its Jay and Marco.

 

Just now, NBASupes said:

 Like I said, you aren't the person i have issues with right now for your behavior. Its Jay and Marco. Two posters I respect and I am deeply disappointed in right now.