Ask Supes

[terrell]

15 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Basketball just isn't anlaytics.  You've said this yourself.  Danny Green isn't worth $15.6 million to be a back up. 

Like you said earlier on the JC thing.  Whoever is making the decisions for the Hawks would turn that deal down. It doesn't make financial sense when there are other options out there. I'd much rather pay Grant that money than Danny Green. 

Grant plays better defense and scores just as well. 

Danny Green in the Finals so far 6.5 PPG - 29 FG% - 23 3P%

 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, marco102 said:

Basketball just isn't anlaytics.  You've said this yourself.  Danny Green isn't worth $15.6 million to be a back up. 

Like you said earlier on the JC thing.  Whoever is making the decisions for the Hawks would turn that deal down. It doesn't make financial sense when there are other options out there. I'd much rather pay Grant that money than Danny Green. 

Grant plays better defense and scores just as well. 

I am not a fan of Green like that. At the end of the day, I like PDS guys and all Green is, is a in the box passer who is a tremendous defender with great BBIQ. His shooting is STREAKY and his dribbling is nonexistent. 

I was just making a case for him. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by NBASupes

[Sothron]

I have no problems paying JC the max. He is better every season on the court and he's a good person. He's a solid All Star level performer as a big man. If that's not worth a max deal then I don't know what it is.

[capstone21]

Danny Green is done ... I hope we don’t waste our money on him.

[georgia]

I agree as well.   I’d pay Collins.   Can’t lose him.   He gets better every year.   

[Dean Walker]

2 hours ago, georgia said:

I agree as well.   I’d pay Collins.   Can’t lose him.   He gets better every year.   

I agree to a certain extent but he has a lot to prove this season.

[kg01]

30 minutes ago, Dean Walker said:

I agree to a certain extent but he has a lot to prove this season.

I dont think so.  If he shows the same level of improvement this year that he showed this past season, he's fine.

Even if he's just the same player, I'm ok with that.

We gotta pay somebody.  Who do folks suggest we replace him with?  There are no perfect players.  Are there better players?  Clearly, yes but none of them are available.

[macdaddy]

18 minutes ago, kg01 said:

We gotta pay somebody.  Who do folks suggest we replace him with?  There are no perfect players.  Are there better players?  Clearly, yes but none of them are available.

Yep

[NBASupes]

There is a massive difference between paying JC what he's worth and giving him the max. Like a 50 million dollars.

[Dean Walker]

27 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

There is a massive difference between paying JC what he's worth and giving him the max. Like a 50 million dollars.

Exactly,big difference.

[thecampster]

36 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

There is a massive difference between paying JC what he's worth and giving him the max. Like a 50 million dollars.

That difference is the difference between seeing him in Hawks red or having to play against him 3 times a year.

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by thecampster

[terrell]

12 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I am not a fan of Green like that. At the end of the day, I like PDS guys and all Green is, is a in the box passer who is a tremendous defender with great BBIQ. His shooting is STREAKY and his dribbling is nonexistent. 

I was just making a case for him. Nothing more, nothing less. 

He's not a tremendous defender anymore....

[RedDawg#8]

5 hours ago, Sothron said:

I have no problems paying JC the max. He is better every season on the court and he's a good person. He's a solid All Star level performer as a big man. If that's not worth a max deal then I don't know what it is.

I agree with this.

I think we are going about this the right way because we would have Max'd him already if not. We are going to let the cap and the market set itself again post-corona, etc... which all signs point to it being similar as it was supposed to be.

We are going to have to pay JC no matter what. No less than 25 mil per is what he is worth right now based on actual production alone. He may end up north of that if he balls out even more this year.

At some point we do have to spend cap and make commitments/decisions on the core. We can't wait around for the elusive free agent max guys to choose us and lose the very talent needed to attract them here. Our spending window is arriving fast, which makes this offseason critical to putting together a winning lineup.

Tough decisions will need to be made. Unless we managed to hit on every draft pick, all of the core guys will not remain in a couple of years, some will need to be moved for us to add to the roster. JC is still a very attractive piece, and so are the other guys to different extents. But we need to be the one's that control that, so when its time to lock them up, we must do so. 

 

[AHF]

Where I stand right now is that I'd rather overpay JC by $5M per year than lose him.  If we get trade offers for him, you can consider those but this can't be a Horford / Sap situation with him.  

[kg01]

53 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

There is a massive difference between paying JC what he's worth and giving him the max. Like a 50 million dollars.

No one in the league is paid "what he's worth", so are we going to chase that windmill or pay the guy we developed?

[RedDawg#8]

45 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

There is a massive difference between paying JC what he's worth and giving him the max. Like a 50 million dollars.

 

17 minutes ago, Dean Walker said:

Exactly,big difference.

Scared money don't make money. 

Part of what attracts players to franchises is knowing they will open up the pocket book for them. And since we don't have the championship legacy, or a top 3-5 player already on the team, we are going to have to overpay talent to keep or bring them in. We must make good decisions on identifying worthy talent, which is the conversation around JC, but make no mistake, we aren't a franchise that will get big time guys to sign at a discount, not yet anyways.

We can debate his numbers, but JC's production is above several Max guys. His agent knows this too. If we try to haggle him down, it may work against us when it comes to future free agents. Winning cures all, so the impetus is to get good, fast, because nobody will sign for less than they can make just to build with young guys, when they can play on a discount for a title contender. 

In JC's case, he wants to be here. But somebody else will drive up his cost, so we better have a plan in place to compete.

[kg01]

7 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

 

Scared money don't make money. 

Part of what attracts players to franchises is knowing they will open up the pocket book for them. And since we don't have the championship legacy, or a top 3-5 player already on the team, we are going to have to overpay talent to keep or bring them in. We must make good decisions on identifying worthy talent, which is the conversation around JC, but make no mistake, we aren't a franchise that will get big time guys to sign at a discount, not yet anyways.

We can debate his numbers, but JC's production is above several Max guys. His agent knows this too. If we try to haggle him down, it may work against us when it comes to future free agents. Winning cures all, so the impetus is to get good, fast, because nobody will sign for less than they can make just to build with young guys, when they can play on a discount for a title contender. 

In JC's case, he wants to be here. But somebody else will drive up his cost, so we better have a plan in place to compete.

Eggsactly.  There are no perfect players but guys want us to wait around, sit on the purse until that perfect player comes along.  If we do that, we send the message that even if you develop under our watch we're gonna try to Scrooge McDuck you.

I want Collins back on a team-friendly deal too but, if it ends up being more than that, I get it.  That's life in the big city.  And my challenge to anyone who disagrees is, show me the cheap contenders.  I'll wait.

[RedDawg#8]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Eggsactly.  There are no perfect players but guys want us to wait around, sit on the purse until that perfect player comes along.  If we do that, we send the message that even if you develop under our watch we're gonna try to Scrooge McDuck you.

I want Collins back on a team-friendly deal too but, if it ends up being more than that, I get it.  That's life in the big city.  And my challenge to anyone who disagrees is, show me the cheap contenders.  I'll wait.

That Part!

You have to pay to play. We want to be frugal, then what was the point of tearing everything down, taking toxic contracts, etc.. to clear up space. The point was to spend money someday. That day is coming, fast.

[bleachkit]

38 minutes ago, AHF said:

Where I stand right now is that I'd rather overpay JC by $5M per year than lose him.  If we get trade offers for him, you can consider those but this can't be a Horford / Sap situation with him.  

Maybe we could cry Covid poverty, but regardless, JC has all the leverage. Rebuilding teams can't let their your stars walk, and his representatives are fully aware of that. Trae will get the max too. We are going in luxury tax hell before we know it 

Edited October 8, 2020 by bleachkit

[bird_dirt]

The big thing with JC is he's only, what, 22? He's already put up huge numbers and grown every year. 

If he was 28 or 29 putting up 20/10 for the first time, I could understand proceeding with more caution. 

He needs to grow, but he clearly has the time and has shown a desire to grow. I don't know if he'll put up much better offensive numbers, but I could see him continuing to improve his defensive impact. 

He's worth the risk of laying down the dollars.