Ask Supes

[bleachkit]

29 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Oh he's tradeable...but the discussion is so out there that we would never get a package worth John.

 

Further, John is a much better trade prospect at the deadline if you feel you can't get an extension done.  Pre-draft is the absolute worst time to consider trading a player like Collins.

How many power forwards under the age of 25 are better than JC? I cant think of a single one. Dude is flat out stud.

Edited November 16, 2020 by bleachkit

[JTB]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

At the end of the day, probably stay at #6, extend (or keep working on extending) John, no mega trade, add a solid free agent or two, and call it a day.

This may happen as long as the free agent targets are good I’m fine with this plan 

[JTB]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

How many power forwards under the age of 25 are better than JC? I think of a single one. Dude is flat out stud.

Jaren Jackson Jr is pretty damn good. Outside of JJJ there’s no one else on same level currently 

[ShooterSays]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

How many power forwards under the age of 25 are better than JC? I think of a single one. Dude is flat out stud.

I'm not sure if there are any PF's in the history of the game who've, at 23, put up better numbers than John Collins. It's why the trades people were posting on here involving him were so laughable to me.

Edit: Tim Duncan was better.

Edited November 16, 2020 by ShooterSays

[NBASupes]

30 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

No. @NBASupes has been clear. Trae, Cam, and Hunter are absolutely untouchable. Huerter and JC aren't being shopped, but if a team came with a good offer, we would listen.

I wouldn't say untouchable outside of Trae. I mean, if Atlanta was offered Giannis and he was willing to extend for many years, that's a different ballgame. Let's just say they aren't available for what's currently on the market. 

Kevin is probably there with them. JC is clearly valued as a core piece and he's someone they would never just trade. It would have to be significant that they feel would be worth it. As I said, they value all 6 of these players a lot.

[h4wkfan]

5 minutes ago, JTB said:

No I’m being honest in my post ....with Siakiam I was excited about the defense around Trae. So that’s where the excitement comes in.

I’m not down on Collins but he does need to improve the defense to be more of an impact player on winning.

 

ive also noted things that I think Collins is elite at that don’t get mentioned enough like his off ball movement as a big. His rebounding has been impressive and shot development is really good. Collins two biggest issues are defense and having another offensive skill that can benefit his teammates like playmaking or putting the ball on the floor better.

but the guy is 23 I’m not down on him by any means .

I think Siakam has more of an impact to winning which is why I like his fit with our current roster. Now with that said— Collins @ 5 this year + 20-23M per for another 4 is more desirable than a maxed Siakam. 

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, JTB said:

Jaren Jackson Jr is pretty damn good. Outside of JJJ there’s no one else on same level currently 

.... is he tho?  My "power" forward can't be pullin' in them less-than-Horford numbers of rebounds, homes.  Plus folks are overrating his defense.

(They both have warts is what I'm saying.)

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, ShooterSays said:

THIS 100%. LaVine makes you a playoff contender right now. Which keeps Trae happy and gives Cam and Hunter 2 years to develop. It's all about giving our core time to develop WHILE being competitive. LaVine does this.

Is he a perfect fit right now? No.

But in 2 years, Cam and Hunter may very well be a perfect fit for this team and both entering their prime.

Perfectly said.

[Sothron]

3 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

I'm not sure if there are any PF's in the history of the game who've, at 23, put up better numbers than John Collins. It's why the trades people were posting on here involving him were so laughable to me.

Edit: Tim Duncan was better.

Eh, let's don't go that route. Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Pettit, McHale, etc. were all studs at young ages. I can keep naming names but you see my point.

For today's game right NOW I wouldn't trade JC for any PF not named Anthony Davis.

[BangHolman]

5 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

At the end of the day, probably stay at #6, extend (or keep working on extending) John, no mega trade, add a solid free agent or two, and call it a day.

Checks out and sounds like a typical Hawks' off-season

[ShooterSays]

1 minute ago, Sothron said:

Eh, let's don't go that route. Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Pettit, McHale, etc. were all studs at young ages. I can keep naming names but you see my point.

For today's game right NOW I wouldn't trade JC for any PF not named Anthony Davis.

Lol you get my point though. His stats at 23 are up there with the all time greats at that age and you're not trading him for anything other than a bona fide superstar like Giannis or AD.

[Sothron]

5 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Lol you get my point though. His stats at 23 are up there with the all time greats at that age and you're not trading him for anything other than a bona fide superstar like Giannis or AD.

[JTB]

13 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I wouldn't say untouchable outside of Trae. I mean, if Atlanta was offered Giannis and he was willing to extend for many years, that's a different ballgame. Let's just say they aren't available for what's currently on the market. 

Kevin is probably there with them. JC is clearly valued as a core piece and he's someone they would never just trade. It would have to be significant that they feel would be worth it. As I said, they value all 6 of these players a lot.

That’s the confusing part of this whole mega trade though ....in order to get something great you HAVE to give away something good in the deal.

No one is going to give us something great for nothing. We know the hawks aren’t trading Trae since he’s the franchise corner stone and the one putting asses in seats even during losing seasons. Huerter and Dedmon ain’t good enough to bring back a good all star talent and if they are that’s news to me. Cam and Hunter even if they were on the market no team is giving up a all star level player for them for where they are today in their development .

 

so the one of the reasons I thought maybe it was JC is because usually in a mega trade you have to give up something good to get back something that may be great for the team or an all star player but this last post is confusing!
 

If none of the core is available then how can we get back a good all star level player in a  mega trade?

 

 

 

 

[kg01]

17 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Perfectly said.

Uhm ... how does Lavine make anyone a playoff threat tho?

CHI arguably has as much, if not more, raw talent than we do and they were terri-bad his whole time there.  I'm just saying, for him to push us to some higher level, he'll literally have to do things we've never seen him do.  Ever.

Alls I'm saying is it looks good on paper but, once you go 3D with it, .. ehhh, I'm dubious.

I'd say it's more likely, after about 6 games he'll be in the media asking why he don't get more shots.  Ooh but wait'll y'all see what I've been working for the (non-existent) 2021 dunk contest.

[thecampster]

19 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Lol you get my point though. His stats at 23 are up there with the all time greats at that age and you're not trading him for anything other than a bona fide superstar like Giannis or AD.

John Collins first 3 years in the league ages 20/21/22

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2017-18	20	ATL	NBA	PF	74	26	24.1	4.2	7.4	.576	0.2	0.6	.340	4.0	6.7	.598	.591	1.8	2.5	.715	2.4	4.9	7.3	1.3	0.6	1.1	1.4	2.9	10.5
2018-19	21	ATL	NBA	PF	61	59	30.0	7.6	13.6	.560	0.9	2.6	.348	6.7	11.0	.609	.593	3.3	4.4	.763	3.6	6.2	9.8	2.0	0.4	0.6	2.0	3.3	19.5
2019-20	22	ATL	NBA	PF	41	41	33.2	8.6	14.8	.583	1.4	3.6	.401	7.2	11.2	.642	.632	2.9	3.7	.800	2.8	7.3	10.1	1.5	0.8	1.6	1.8	3.4	21.6

 

 

Karl Malone age 22/23 - first 2 years in the league

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1985-86	22	UTA	NBA	PF	81	76	30.6	6.2	12.5	.496	0.0	0.0	.000	6.2	12.5	.497	.496	2.4	5.0	.481	2.1	6.7	8.9	2.9	1.3	0.5	3.4	3.6	14.9
1986-87	23	UTA	NBA	PF	82	82	34.8	8.9	17.3	.512	0.0	0.1	.000	8.9	17.3	.514	.512	3.9	6.6	.598	3.4	7.0	10.4	1.9	1.3	0.7	2.9	3.9	21.7

Edited November 16, 2020 by thecampster

[macdaddy]

Just now, kg01 said:

CHI arguably has as much, if not more, raw talent than we do and they were terri-bad his whole time there.

Well I'm not disagreeing about Zach but i'm not sure this is true.   Not to mention the total coaching debacle they've had.

[terrell]

51 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Chris Paul's gonna be the greatest pg to never win anything.  Suns'll finally make the playoffs tho so ... worth it?

"It" being paying his old arse $40mills for the next several years.  Yowch

And can we stop the myth of Kelly WhOubre? Y'all have been pining for that dude for years.  Literally years.  Guys, if he was what y'all think he is, he wouldn't be bouncing from bad team to bad team to bad team.

Only 2 more years at least...lol

[ShooterSays]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

John Collins first 3 years in the league ages 20/21/22

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2017-18	20	ATL	NBA	PF	74	26	24.1	4.2	7.4	.576	0.2	0.6	.340	4.0	6.7	.598	.591	1.8	2.5	.715	2.4	4.9	7.3	1.3	0.6	1.1	1.4	2.9	10.5
2018-19	21	ATL	NBA	PF	61	59	30.0	7.6	13.6	.560	0.9	2.6	.348	6.7	11.0	.609	.593	3.3	4.4	.763	3.6	6.2	9.8	2.0	0.4	0.6	2.0	3.3	19.5
2019-20	22	ATL	NBA	PF	41	41	33.2	8.6	14.8	.583	1.4	3.6	.401	7.2	11.2	.642	.632	2.9	3.7	.800	2.8	7.3	10.1	1.5	0.8	1.6	1.8	3.4	21.6

 

 

Karl Malone age 22/23 - first 2 years in the league

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1985-86	22	UTA	NBA	PF	81	76	30.6	6.2	12.5	.496	0.0	0.0	.000	6.2	12.5	.497	.496	2.4	5.0	.481	2.1	6.7	8.9	2.9	1.3	0.5	3.4	3.6	14.9
1986-87	23	UTA	NBA	PF	82	82	34.8	8.9	17.3	.512	0.0	0.1	.000	8.9	17.3	.514	.512	3.9	6.6	.598	3.4	7.0	10.4	1.9	1.3	0.7	2.9	3.9	21.7

 

 

 

 

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Well I'm not disagreeing about Zach but i'm not sure this is true.   Not to mention the total coaching debacle they've had.

(Dang, macd's pointed out the obvious hole in my rant.)

(Well ... say something, kg, or everyone'll catch on.)

Bwah, I see your point macd but I'll have to disagree.

(Good, good.  Whew, that was a close one.  Wait, they can hear me?  Shiiiiii ....)

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, terrell said:

Only 2 more years at least...lol

Let's be honest, I really just used that post to embed some WhOubre slander.

I can't stand that dude.