Has LP seen the light or

[TheNorthCydeRises]

14 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

This whole argument is ridiculous. It ignores the fact that Bruno had no business getting more than a few minutes a game to start the season. He literally had no idea what he was doing. Or dont yall remember Trae yelling at him on the court for being out of position and generally in the way early on. 

One can say, "well how he gonna learn if not by playing in actual NBA games?" But that question ignores the reality that there were 4 other guys on the court - all further along than Bruno - that were trying to win games early on. LP couldn't just throw Bruno out for 25 min a game to the detriment of the other 4 guys. Bruno has to be at least competent on the court or it isn't productive for him or the other guys to get starter minutes.

Despite what some on this board think, LP knows what he's doing in developing players. And that includes knowing when to increase their PT and when to pull it back. 

And this was Bruno in the 3rd game of the season vs the Sixers

 

 

[Buzzard]

14 hours ago, marco102 said:

You seem to keep moving this goal post.  First you say you fear Pierce won't play Bruno when Len and Parker are healthy and he'll play Jones or whatever.  

You  also  fear he would play Collins at the 5 instead of Bruno which he obviously did when we had injuries and, believe it or not, that line up actually produced better that what we were previously throwing out there.  The bench just gave it all up.  However, now that Bruno has come back from his personal reason and has been starting even after he had a not so good start one game and still started the next, you are worried for "reasons" that Pierce will move him out of the rotation because of some unfounded fear. 

 

I did not move the goal post. Others did. My original posts did not just focus in on Jones. It focused on LP's rotations in general and the focus was on the players who he played at PF and Center. See the very first paragraph below.

Quote

will he go back to his tried and untrue rotation of Jones, Len, Parker, and Vince getting most of the minutes. This month has seen Fernando getting his most minutes per game so far. He is also showing signs of growth. I really want this trend to continue and hope Fernando continues to get around 20 minutes or more a game.

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

12 hours ago, KB21 said:

They traded for Jones to see if he could potentially develop into a starting caliber center.  That’s obviously not working out, but what you need to take from their desire to give him a chance is that they definitely want a center with size in that starting position.  They seen Bruno as more of a reserve player going forward, IMO, as they prefer a center with traditional size.  

Want in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up the fastest. Just because he wanted a center with size to develop, does not mean he had one. LP should have seen the Jones writing on the wall no later than the end of November. Instead he kept Fernando's minutes under Jones, while also giving to many minutes to Vince.

Fernando is just now getting close to 20 minutes a game and it did not start until the last week of January. I do not think that is a good thing.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Buzzard

[JayBirdHawk]

No Bruno. Jones still off the bench.

 

 

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

No Bruno. Jones still off the bench.

 

 

If i summarize this thread correctly:

- Jones on the bench - good

- bruno out - bad

- collins at the 5 - bad

Looks like LP failed again on this one but he may get a pass for Bruno being unavailable. 

[terrell]

31 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

If i summarize this thread correctly:

- Jones on the bench - good

- bruno out - bad

- collins at the 5 - bad

Looks like LP failed again on this one but he may get a pass for Bruno being unavailable. 

So JOnes and VC at center tonight as soon as Collins gets in "foul trouble"..GReat.

[AHF]

39 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

If i summarize this thread correctly:

- Jones on the bench - good

- bruno out - bad

- collins at the 5 - bad

Looks like LP failed again on this one but he may get a pass for Bruno being unavailable. 

There are only bad options with Len and Bruno both out.  I think you ideally want Bruno starting and playing around 20 minutes, Len coming off the bench for around 20 minutes and some combo of Collins and Jones playing the remaining 8 minutes.  Parker plays behind Collins with Bruno and Hunter playing the small amount of filler behind those two at PF.

With Len and Bruno out, you now have 40 minutes of C to fill.  With Parker at PF out, you now have 20+ minutes there to fill.  There are not real good options for those fills.

[Watchman]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

If i summarize this thread correctly:

- Jones on the bench - good

- bruno out - bad

- collins at the 5 - bad

Looks like LP failed again on this one but he may get a pass for Bruno being unavailable. 

Hey, at least he's not starting Vince at the 5!

[Watchman]

19 hours ago, Buzzard said:

Jones is 6.5 fouls per 36. Fernando is 5.7 fouls per 36.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jonesda03.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fernabr01.html

Even so, you can't play if you're always in foul trouble, whether it's Jones or Bruno.

[macdaddy]

Makes me wonder why both of our 2 way guys are guards.   

[KB21]

7 hours ago, Buzzard said:

Want in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up the fastest. Just because he wanted a center with size to develop, does not mean he had one. LP should have seen the Jones writing on the wall no later than the end of November. Instead he kept Fernando's minutes under Jones, while also giving to many minutes to Vince.

Fernando is just now getting close to 20 minutes a game and it did not start until the last week of January. I do not think that is a good thing.

I’m just telling you what they want in the center position.  This idea that Travis wants to build a small ball team is clearly false, and ideally, he wants to do what the Warriors did when they added Andrew Bogut to that team.  He knows that size at that position has an effect on team defense.  

I know some used to argue for John Collins playing the 5 man role, and some even argued that you could pair up Collins and Bagley at the 4/5 positions and use them interchangeably during that particular draft.  That’s not what they want though.  They want Collins as a 4 man for the majority of the time, and they want a center with size next to him.

[Peoriabird]

25 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I’m just telling you what they want in the center position.  This idea that Travis wants to build a small ball team is clearly false, and ideally, he wants to do what the Warriors did when they added Andrew Bogut to that team.  He knows that size at that position has an effect on team defense.  

I know some used to argue for John Collins playing the 5 man role, and some even argued that you could pair up Collins and Bagley at the 4/5 positions and use them interchangeably during that particular draft.  That’s not what they want though.  They want Collins as a 4 man for the majority of the time, and they want a center with size next to him.

Then why didn't Schlenk sign any this past off season?  And why are both our 2 way players back court players?

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, Watchman said:

Even so, you can't play if you're always in foul trouble, whether it's Jones or Bruno.

20 minutes a game and Bruno would still be well under 4 fouls. So yes he can play 20 minutes a game and gain valuable experience. Who knows, maybe he learns to pick his spots to foul and becomes a better player at the same time. It is all just guess work though if he is riding the pine.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

37 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I’m just telling you what they want in the center position.  This idea that Travis wants to build a small ball team is clearly false, and ideally, he wants to do what the Warriors did when they added Andrew Bogut to that team.  He knows that size at that position has an effect on team defense.  

I know some used to argue for John Collins playing the 5 man role, and some even argued that you could pair up Collins and Bagley at the 4/5 positions and use them interchangeably during that particular draft.  That’s not what they want though.  They want Collins as a 4 man for the majority of the time, and they want a center with size next to him.

You will not find one quote of mind that says Schlenk "wants" a small ball team. My whole point though is you have to play the cards you have been dealt; while also playing the best players you have. Bruno over Jones and Vince all day!

Edited January 28, 2020 by Buzzard

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

And why are both our 2 way players back court players?

One is a 2-3 and the other a 3-4.  They are both rookies.  2 way wings are extremely valuable and we didn't have any.  It makes perfect sense why he drafted the guy with the high floor and the guy with the high ceiling last year.  We knew wing defense was a huge need for the team and you can't address every need in a single draft.

Now for why he only traded for Jones and didn't add another center other than Bruno, the only things I can speculate on that is that he wanted us in the lottery for one last season (which is why he started the season with a 30 win projection) and that he overestimated Len (thinking he might be able to play the way he finished last year) and Jones (thinking he was functional).  The fact that we have been heavily talking to teams about Adams, Drummond and other big men tells you that he recognizes the state of the roster today at center and wants it to change.  

I thought you jumped the gun complaining about the center issue on day 1 of FA but agreed with your criticism on the state of the roster when the offseason was done.  He did too little to bolster our front court.  While this outcome of struggles from our frontcourt was foreseeable from before the season started, it is exacerbated by us basically losing our best member of the frontcourt for the season (25 games of Collins + how ever many now for Parker missed which combined make up the equivalent of our best frontcourt player) and Len / Bruno for additional time.

[KB21]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Then why didn't Schlenk sign any this past off season?  And why are both our 2 way players back court players?

This is a two fold question.

1.  He wasn’t going to spend big money in free agency this past off season.

2.  Alex Len had a really good season last year, and they felt good about that going into the season.

He did make a move to get a young big in Damian Jones who he felt could develop, and that hasn’t worked out.  This is also why you see the rumors of him going after Drummond/Adams.  Now, I don’t think anything will actually materialize with those, but they have had the discussions.

[macdaddy]

Exactly.  we have 2 7 footers on the roster.  We may not like them but Travis definitely got them.  

[Peoriabird]

20 hours ago, KB21 said:

This is a two fold question.

1.  He wasn’t going to spend big money in free agency this past off season.

2.  Alex Len had a really good season last year, and they felt good about that going into the season.

He did make a move to get a young big in Damian Jones who he felt could develop, and that hasn’t worked out.  This is also why you see the rumors of him going after Drummond/Adams.  Now, I don’t think anything will actually materialize with those, but they have had the discussions.

So he wasn't going to spend big money in free agency but yet is willing to do it in the middle of a disastrous season and give up draft capital to boot?  MAKES NO SENSE! 

Also by over estimating the abilities Len and Jones diminishes one's confidence in his ability to construct a team especially a front court

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So he wasn't going to spend big money in free agency but yet is willing to do it in the middle of a disastrous season and give up draft capital to boot?  MAKES NO SENSE! 

Also by over estimating the abilities Len and Jones diminishes one's confidence in his ability to construct a team especially a front court

Seems like apples and oranges.  We didn't spend money in free agency because there wasn't anyone there we wanted or wanted to come here.  Trade targets are for players we want.  

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So he wasn't going to spend big money in free agency but yet is willing to do it in the middle of a disastrous season and give up draft capital to boot?  MAKES NO SENSE! 

Also by over estimating the abilities Len and Jones diminishes one's confidence in his ability to construct a team especially a front court

I’m not convinced about how willing he is to make a deal for a guy like Adams, and I’m the guy that has questioned his approach to building this team the entire time.