Hiding Trae Defensively is priority going forward...

[JTB]

13 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I really don't agree. For the 1st half of the season, it was because we did not have Collins and Huerter, Now with Collins and Huerter back, its the same old coaches pass, we are to young.

I think we are being out coached every night. Like another poster said, even the games we win, we almost lose. I think with Trae, Reddish, Huerter, Hunter, Collins, Dedmon, and Capela all healthy, plus we added Teague and Goodwin, LD needs to stop with the excuses.

I think this is pretty much what Trae is saying without saying it, stop with the excuses LP.

I do think coaching may be an issue not going to lie but LP is on record saying he has yet to implement his full defensive game plan and strategy cause the guys weren’t ready for it but now I think it’s time he starts implementing whatever that strategy is 

[macdaddy]

4 minutes ago, JTB said:

I do think coaching may be an issue not going to lie but LP is on record saying he has yet to implement his full defensive game plan and strategy cause the guys weren’t ready for it but now I think it’s time he starts implementing whatever that strategy is 

I"ve been supportive of LP.  I think it's hard to judge coaching when the players are young and subpar.   But I'm starting to change my tune on it.  Coming out on a regular basis with 'no energy' is on the coach.  That's the biggest issue.  There are definitely rotation issues but you have that with every coach.  

And it's a superstar league.  If Trae ain't going to be happy playing with LP then you have no choice.  Rip the band aid off.  It might not be fair or right but you either do it sooner or later. 

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, JTB said:

I do think coaching may be an issue not going to lie but LP is on record saying he has yet to implement his full defensive game plan and strategy cause the guys weren’t ready for it but now I think it’s time he starts implementing whatever that strategy is 

So he says while we continue to lose. If things do not get turned around with the additions of Teague, Dedmon, and Capela after the All-Star break I call BS. He has three worthy shooters in Trae, Huerter, and Reddish. Four willing defenders in Reddish, Hunter, Dedmon, and Capela. Three solid rebounding bigs in Capela, Collins, and Dedmon. A vet BU PG in Teague. A rookie foul machine who does not shy away from contact in Fernando. Another foul prone energy guy in Bembry.

We have one the easiest remaining schedules in the NBA. I get its not a deep team; but the talent/youth excuses against under .500 teams is not acceptable.

[NBASupes]

LP needs a real team before you can hold him to the fire especially if he is doing main thing we need him to do which is developing players.

His system is a good one. I like a lot of his ideas. 

The execution which was good last year has been poor this year. 

Then again, teams are selling out for the PnR. If Collins had any low post game, he would be feasting like Parker was. Parker is offensively better than Collins. Jones is a better rim runner due to his size. Collins gotta have space on the PnR. He's useless outside of movement offensively more than not and defensively, he is best as a 5 but gets in foul trouble. Defensively as a 4, he's rubbish. Can't move in space or guard in space. 

Collins is a movement player, that's all he is. 

You can't win with him. His WAR is worse than Parker. 

Our wings lack too much aggressiveness. Cam finally finding out that he's really f***ing talented. Hunter needs to watch a lot of film on Robert Covington. 

Dedmon is fine. He's a keeper. So is Kevin but he's done as a starter. Teams also downloaded him as well. Defensively, he's just as bad as Trae in space. Both are food. He actually got defensive BBIQ. More than our other perimeter defenders not named Graham. 

 

If Graham wasn't so rubbish on offense for our system, he would play more. He is worse for our system than Anderson was last year. 

[JTB]

14 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

So he says while we continue to lose. If things do not get turned around with the additions of Teague, Dedmon, and Capela after the All-Star break I call BS. He has three worthy shooters in Trae, Huerter, and Reddish. Four willing defenders in Reddish, Hunter, Dedmon, and Capela. Three solid rebounding bigs in Capela, Collins, and Dedmon. A vet BU PG in Teague. A rookie foul machine who does not shy away from contact in Fernando. Another foul prone energy guy in Bembry.

We have one the easiest remaining schedules in the NBA. I get its not a deep team; but the talent/youth excuses against under .500 teams is not acceptable.

Let’s hold off until the end of the year. If no improvement seen by then I will agree with all of this and not look back .

its only been two weeks or not even since LP got this roster so let’s give him a chance first. He hasn’t gotten capela yet 

[macdaddy]

And it's not up to us :).   I see almost no way Travis fire LP this offseason.

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, JTB said:

Let’s hold off until the end of the year. If no improvement seen by then I will agree with all of this and not look back .

its only been two weeks or not even since LP got this roster so let’s give him a chance first. He hasn’t gotten capela yet 

I am and I do expect to see improvement. I did not even mention Goodwin who is streaky as hell; but when he is on, he is spot on and a defensive pest as well.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

And it's not up to us :).   I see almost no way Travis fire LP this offseason.

Me either. No reason to but if he struggles after they put together the right roster, he could be on the way out.

[Buzzard]

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

And it's not up to us :).   I see almost no way Travis fire LP this offseason.

If there are good signs with Capela in the starting lineup, I agree. But Ressler is not going to put up with 30 wins 4 seasons in a row. I don't think he is going to put up with his one all-star moping around either. I don't see either of them being put up with for long.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Buzzard

[JTB]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

LP needs a real team before you can hold him to the fire especially if he is doing main thing we need him to do which is developing players.

His system is a good one. I like a lot of his ideas. 

The execution which was good last year has been poor this year. 

Then again, teams are selling out for the PnR. If Collins had any low post game, he would be feasting like Parker was. Parker is offensively better than Collins. Jones is a better rim runner due to his size. Collins gotta have space on the PnR. He's useless outside of movement offensively more than not and defensively, he is best as a 5 but gets in foul trouble. Defensively as a 4, he's rubbish. Can't move in space or guard in space. 

Collins is a movement player, that's all he is. 

You can't win with him. His WAR is worse than Parker. 

Our wings lack too much aggressiveness. Cam finally finding out that he's really f***ing talented. Hunter needs to watch a lot of film on Robert Covington. 

Dedmon is fine. He's a keeper. So is Kevin but he's done as a starter. Teams also downloaded him as well. Defensively, he's just as bad as Trae in space. Both are food. He actually got defensive BBIQ. More than our other perimeter defenders not named Graham. 

 

If Graham wasn't so rubbish on offense for our system, he would play more. He is worse for our system than Anderson was last year. 

Man I hear ya and I don’t even disagree but That movement Collins has is something very special! I wouldn’t say we can’t win Collins because though he isn’t really a long big man like Jon Isaac he is more capable of learning how to play defense and being an avg to good defender than our star Trae is.

trae lacks a ton Defensively from everything starting with size trickling all the way down to defensive BBIQ. The good thing for Collins is he don’t lack at everything trae does or as bad as trae.
with both Collins and Trae bbiq defensively can go up as well as their effort on that end (that’s the bright side of all of this)

 

BUT the safest thing to do is wait it out on JC right now ....he doesn’t deserve a max or near max extension at the time. So we need to wait it out so We can make sure he really is just what he is. Schlenk finally got some defensive bigs by Collins side again....I’m hoping Collins can learn from them and some effort and passion rubs off from them to him.

[JTB]

4 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

If there are good signs with Capela in the starting lineup, I agree. But Ressler is not going to put up with 30 wins 4 seasons in a row. I don't think he is going to put up with his one all-star moping around either. I don't see either of them being put up with for long.

Good! So many think resselers impatience is bad I’m like nah screw that! Shit or get off the pot is my motto!

we are going to mess around and be like the damn t wolves having k love then KAT but can’t put a damn team around the star we been blessed with. Then people love to look at the 76ers model as if that worked ....that brutal ass patience for philly didn’t work! They were a 2nd rd done team in the playoffs before they started that horrible ass long tanking season after season! The goal was for them to be championship contenders and they have a lot of issues though they look good at home. 
 

in a way they (76ers) ...tanked their asses back into the same damn spot before the tank until proven otherwise.

 

I SAY ALL THAT...to say I appreciated Traes frustrations coming to the media...some will say that it’s not a good thing and I disagree! It got him capela didn’t it??! ....Resseler was on Schlenk ass about getting Drummond though we didn’t get him but the point is our star and owner have shown that they are not about to put up with this let’s just be patient attitude! ....not when we have a player putting up a mvp stat line!...the f*** we need patience for lol...get a team around him!....Shit or get off the pot! 

[Gray Mule]

26 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I am and I do expect to see improvement. I did not even mention Goodwin who is streaky as hell; but when he is on, he is spot on and a defensive pest as well.

Goodwin:  Strangely enough, he has been our main PG in two of our many victories!  He's our best defensive PG and sometimes he can hit the three.  Flashes his speed, going inside to score.

Brings energy.  So happy that the Hawks decided he was a keeper.

[Peoriabird]

What has changed from last year to this year?  Last year we weren't a good defensive team but the Hawks were winning games down the stretch against good teams.  Why don't we win games anymore with basically the same starting line up minus Prince?  Now all of a sudden Trae Young and Collins are the problem when last year they were the solution.  Can someone please explain?

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

What has changed from last year to this year?  Last year we weren't a good defensive team but the Hawks were winning games down the stretch against good teams.  Why don't we win games anymore with basically the same starting line up minus Prince?  Now all of a sudden Trae Young and Collins are the problem when last year they were the solution.  Can someone please explain?

My personal view is to wait until after the All-Star break when we return with a full roster and see how things go.  Our rotation was pretty steady last year with Trae, Huert, Collins, Dedmon / Len, Prince and Bembry consistently available and playing together.  Not sure how many games we've played with all 5 starters together, but I don't think it is many and I know it isn't any for our new set of starters since Capela hasn't played with us yet.  

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

My personal view is to wait until after the All-Star break when we return with a full roster and see how things go.  Our rotation was pretty steady last year with Trae, Huert, Collins, Dedmon / Len, Prince and Bembry consistently available and playing together.  Not sure how many games we've played with all 5 starters together, but I don't think it is many and I know it isn't any for our new set of starters.  

Game after game posters are claiming that we are losing because of Trae and Collins even when it was obvious last game that we got murdered in the paint and destroyed on the boards.  Much of the destruction came when Pierce went small but he gets a pass...What gives?

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Game after game posters are claiming that we are losing because of Trae and Collins even when it was obvious last game that we got murdered in the paint and destroyed on the boards.  Much of the destruction came when Pierce went small but he gets a pass...What gives?

I think people are frustrated - particularly with yesterday's game.  Trae and Collins clearly have work to do on defense and because people expect the most from them they get criticized for this one more than others.  They have definitely not been the only ones criticized and you'll see people calling out and losing patience with LP as well, including the small ball lineups in yesterday's game thread.

[Buzzard]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

My personal view is to wait until after the All-Star break when we return with a full roster and see how things go.  Our rotation was pretty steady last year with Trae, Huert, Collins, Dedmon / Len, Prince and Bembry consistently available and playing together.  Not sure how many games we've played with all 5 starters together, but I don't think it is many and I know it isn't any for our new set of starters since Capela hasn't played with us yet.  

Schlenk admitted he made a mistake when referencing our depth. That mistake was put to the test with Collins and Huerter. I think when healthy, this team is now built to win close to 50% of the remaining games ( weak opponents ) after the break. The issue now comes down to our coach putting players in the best roles to succeed.

For me that looks like a different starting lineup. Trae, Reddish, Hunter, Capela, and Collins. But the coach still has to insert the hot hand and has to recognize match ups. Teague, Goodwin, Huerter, Dedmon, Fernando, and yes Bembry and Vince need to be used in a calculating way in the flow of the game.

It cannot be a minutes chart that says so and so goes in at this time; and so and so gets this many minutes. If we are playing with a hot hand, lets stay hot. If its cold, shake things up.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Buzzard

[JTB]

30 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Schlenk admitted he made a mistake when referencing our depth. That mistake was put to the test with Collins and Huerter. I think when healthy, this team is now built to win close to 50% of the remaining games ( weak opponents ) after the break. The issue now comes down to our coach putting players in the best roles to succeed.

For me that looks like a different starting lineup. Trae, Reddish, Hunter, Capela, and Collins. But the coach still has to insert the hot hand and has to recognize match ups. Teague, Goodwin, Huerter, Dedmon, Fernando, and yes Bembry and Vince need to be used in a calculating way in the flow of the game.

It cannot be a minutes chart that says so and so goes in at this time; and so and so gets this many minutes. If we are playing with a hot hand, lets stay hot. If its cold, shake things up.

This right here could be LP downfall as a coach here. This is why so many don’t like him cause it feels like he’s playing 2k out there. His rotations are not great but I give him the benefit of the doubt because Schlenk like you mentioned did put together a crappy ass roster so it’s not like LP had a good set of tools to work with for the majority of the season. Therefore he really does deserve more of pass for this season. Next season when we have a better overall team he will be truly judged for his mishaps not just by us fans but by those who can really pressure him.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

This right here could be LP downfall as a coach here. This is why so many don’t like him cause it feels like he’s playing 2k out there. His rotations are not great but I give him the benefit of the doubt because Schlenk like you mentioned did put together a crappy ass roster so it’s not like LP had a good set of tools to work with for the majority of the season. Therefore he really does deserve more of pass for this season. Next season when we have a better overall team he will be truly judged for his mishaps not just by us fans but by those who can really pressure him.

He doesn't get a pass from me because he continue to insert Vince Carter at power forward for no d-mn reason. Also inserting John at the 5 to go against Drummond is beyond asinine!

[macdaddy]

We're losing because of sloppy and inconsistent play at the 2 and 3.  And now there's no real backup at 3 or 4.  We addressed PG and C at the expense of what little depth we had at 3 and 4 (granted Jabari wasn't even playing).  This isn't a complete team this season and it isn't going to be but it's hard to win when only the 1,4,5 are playing at an nba level and they aren't great defenders.