Hiding Trae Defensively is priority going forward...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 2/11/2020 at 12:37 PM, Buzzard said:

It is very frustrating. I also have a huge bias against the switching D we constantly employ. It is to much of a reminder of the bad old days with Woody and BK thinking we could win a championship with a team full of 6'8" to 6'9" wings.

The ironic thing is that lineup in today's NBA COULD win a championship.

Not saying that those particular players we had could, but a team that size with shooting, speed, and toughness could.

[Buzzard]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The ironic thing is that lineup in today's NBA COULD win a championship.

Not saying that those particular players we had could, but a team that size with shooting, speed, and toughness could.

I think its overly romanticized by fans and is still only a plan B for teams not named Houston. Even they scrambled to get one 7 footer. Now they are having to play Hartenstein and come the playoffs they may have to use Chandler as well.

This is probably D'Antonio's last hurrah. The first thing their new coach will be clamoring for is a center.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The ironic thing is that lineup in today's NBA COULD win a championship.

Not saying that those particular players we had could, but a team that size with shooting, speed, and toughness could.

With one being at least a Superstar! 

[JTB]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/allstar/2020/02/16/trae-young-hawks-bad-defense/4771635002/
 

 

[enrique]

10 minutes ago, JTB said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/allstar/2020/02/16/trae-young-hawks-bad-defense/4771635002/
 

 

Thanks for posting this...

There are two money quotes for me:

1) was from Jeff Van Gundy (one of the funniest, humblest guys around):

"I hate the focus on defensive numbers, I don't think they really tell you what you need to know," Van Gundy said. "When you're looking at Trae, first of all you're looking at an extremely gifted offensive player. I mean, one of the best I've seen. 

"The way his body is (6-1, 180 pounds), he's probably never going to be an elite defender. But you don't need him to be. He's the best player on a team. You want to look at how he leads with defensive effort, energy and within the team (dynamic). ... There are plenty of clowns in our league who don't get better. Will he put the work in and get better?" 

I don't fear Trae's capacity to work...he has demonstrated it in his short NBA career.

2) was from Trae himself...sort of underscoring what we all have stated...he needs increased focus and effort consistently on Defense (there are moments in games where we see it). Trae said:

"But that's all about an effort thing. Getting in better conditioning, better shape. That's definitely an area I need to improve (individually).

I believe we will see this focus come over this off season. It should make a big different in the coming years. 

[NBASupes]

29 minutes ago, JTB said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/allstar/2020/02/16/trae-young-hawks-bad-defense/4771635002/
 

 

I keep saying this, Trae can be at least average on defense. His feet are very quick. His issue is defensive discipline, getting into defensive stance, playing smart team defense, using his God given awareness and looking into his assignment. He will never be mistaken for the Glove or Kyle Lowry but I want him to be like a John Stockton type. 

For Trae, it's all about making defense a massive effort. Getting his body right and taking possessions seriously which is an obvious work in progress. This could take years to achieve, I don't expect this to happen within the next 2 years. Maybe by his 2nd contract 

Edited February 17, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

On 2/15/2020 at 1:43 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

With one being at least a Superstar! 

In that era, you replace Smoove with LeBron it's a champion but LeBron is the equalizer for a lot of team styles. Saying is, if you need someone of that caliber, it's likely, what you need just isn't possible. 

[Cwell]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I keep saying this, Trae can be at least average on defense. His feet are very quick. His issue is defensive discipline, getting into defensive stance, playing smart team defense, using his God given awareness and looking into his assignment. He will never be mistaken for the Glove or Kyle Lowry but I want him to be like a John Stockton type. 

For Trae, it's all about making defense a massive effort. Getting his body right and taking possessions seriously which is an obvious work in progress. This could take years to achieve, I don't expect this to happen within the next 2 years. Maybe by his 2nd contract 

I keep saying this but people keep telling me he's not capable of being better. BULL****. I have seen Trae slide his feet and stay in front of guys too many times over the last two years to agree with that crap take.

Trae's problem is he stands straight up, allowing people to walk right by him, and he dies on screens. That's effort and strength, both can be fixed. The only thing i've seen from that will hinder him his whole career is his lack of length to contest shots, that's the one thing he can't improve at. To say Trae isn't capable of not being utter trash is just a trash take to me

It's never ok to be among the league worst at anything.

[JTB]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I keep saying this, Trae can be at least average on defense. His feet are very quick. His issue is defensive discipline, getting into defensive stance, playing smart team defense, using his God given awareness and looking into his assignment. He will never be mistaken for the Glove or Kyle Lowry but I want him to be like a John Stockton type. 

For Trae, it's all about making defense a massive effort. Getting his body right and taking possessions seriously which is an obvious work in progress. This could take years to achieve, I don't expect this to happen within the next 2 years. Maybe by his 2nd contract 

 

5 minutes ago, Cwell said:

I keep saying this but people keep telling me he's not capable of being better. BULL****. I have seen Trae slide his feet and stay in front of guys too many times over the last two years to agree with that crap take.

Trae's problem is he stands straight up, allowing people to walk right by him, and he dies on screens. That's effort and strength, both can be fixed. The only thing i've seen from that will hinder him his whole career is his lack of length to contest shots, that's the one thing he can't improve at. To say Trae isn't capable of not being utter trash is just a trash take to me

It's never ok to be among the league worst at anything.

I agree with both of you but he’s still likely to be a bad defender and it doesn’t change anything from needing to hide him defensively moving forward as a coach. 

I hear van gundy and Trae is the star of this team but that doesn’t mean he’s going to draw the assignment of the opponents best offensive player.

 

I get it, I get it.....Trae can react better on screens and put a ton more effort in defensively but to expect him to add a massive strength to get over these screens or keep from getting backed down all the way to the goal will NOT stop happening.

 I would be shocked to see him add on Lowry/Bledsoe  like strength, he just doesn’t have the right point guard body to fight through all these screens and the only point guard I’m aware of thats the size of Trae, Iverson, Nash, Stockton etc that has shown he can get through  screens is Patrick Beverly but his attitude defensively is completely different, not something that can be learned in my opinion just kind of his style but on the other hand Beverly is overly aggressive too but has the respect from the refs to allow him to basically foul his way through screens....let’s not expect trae to get that kind of defensive respect . 
 

Most guys Traes size don’t get too much bigger from where they begin once they enter the league (nash, Stockton, curry, Iverson), so I’m curious how much actual strength people think he can add on.
 

Last....Trae will need a smart coach to tell him to use the curry spin off screen technique going under or over. This is what I’d like to hear him trying to master rather than counting on him to get Terry Crews size  He’s going to need to learn to do this at the right time of course. But it works well for curry and I believe it could for Trae 

[macdaddy]

Wait.  There's a gif ban??????

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Wait.  There's a gif ban??????

. Lol.  I have no idea where you got that idea. 

What'd I miss?

[macdaddy]

On 2/14/2020 at 5:07 PM, kg01 said:

*gasp*

Oh man, the gif ban is really killing me.

I like ol' John and I see him really trying to be/do better.  But, bless his heart, I'm thinking he just doesn't have that it factor that will allow him to be impactful on both ends - to the extent that we need him to be.

Saving grace is maybe, just maybe, Capela/Deadman will have impact that will help him along.  We've seen that from Dead a bit already, hope it continues.

Maybe it's a self ban?

[kg01]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

. Lol.  I have no idea where you got that idea. 

What'd I miss?

I can't do gifs at work anymore.

@macdaddy is flaunting it in muh face.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

I can't do gifs at work anymore.

@macdaddy is flaunting it in muh face.

You work?  

Sincerely,

Sturt 

[kg01]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

You work?  

Sincerely,

Sturt 

"Nope." - D. Celery.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

An undersized guy like Trae needs to be one of those smart defenders that can play passing lanes, or come from behind somebody and steal the ball.

So like Iverson, and to an extent like Steph Curry, I'd like to see Trae become top 10 in steals.  While people may poo poo on that stat, it is an indication of defensive activity, much like how Jabari is a bad defender, but can impact the defense with his ability to gamble and get steals every so often.

Also, Trae can become a "smart" defender by drawing charges and finding creative ways to get around screens.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

An undersized guy like Trae needs to be one of those smart defenders that can play passing lanes, or come from behind somebody and steal the ball.

So like Iverson, and to an extent like Steph Curry, I'd like to see Trae become top 10 in steals.  While people may poo poo on that stat, it is an indication of defensive activity, much like how Jabari is a bad defender, but can impact the defense with his ability to gamble and get steals every so often.

Also, Trae can become a "smart" defender by drawing charges and finding creative ways to get around screens.

FWIW, I think steals are very valuable.  I just frequently point out that you need to look more fully at a player to determine their impact on defense.  Guys who leave their man and gamble to get steals are like scorers who put up points every game but do it inefficiently.  A player who doesn't force his man into tougher shots, etc. is like someone with a line of 14 points on 18 FGA.  In contrast, guys who are defensively disciplined and reinforce their team's system and are still able to generate steals are very valuable like 3pt shooters with range that have a high TS%.  Because their is less data on defense easily available, it is too often that people will use steals per game as a shorthand for defensive value.  Context is needed.

With that being said, I agree that Trae can get steals and charges by being a smart player.  We all know he has an unusual gift for seeing the game and some of the great generate their steals by being better at anticipating how the action will develop and being a step faster to it.  That would be great to see for Trae and his instincts on offense could be an asset for reading action on defense.  I'm thrilled if he gets a big boost to his steals that way.

[enrique]

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere but it is worth a quick read. 
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2876876-exposing-nbas-worst-defender-at-every-position

 

[JayBirdHawk]

On 2/11/2020 at 11:54 AM, JTB said:

Trae can’t improve much from where he is now. Trae can’t get over those screens ...it’s not happening . He don’t have the same kind of attitude defensively as he has offensively.

stick his ass in a corner would be best for him in my opinion.

Uuuummm.......you were saying?

 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Good call Coach Pierce!

Quote

Even then, it’s unclear whether the Hawks can defend well enough to compete for a championship with Collins and Young bookending them, especially if Hunter isn’t the defender Atlanta hoped he’d be when it drafted him. Collins’ limitations will require more support from the defenders around him; Huerter, Hunter, and Reddish must all become stronger, more versatile, and more disruptive, and Young simply has to compete harder on that end.

“He ain’t gonna get any bigger, so get peskier, get nastier, you get a little more physical,” Pierce said. “That’s how he has to approach it, and more importantly, what it does is it tells his teammates he’s in that fight and he wants to be in that fight and he embraces that fight.”

Trae did exactly this last night. This is how he can impact the game defensively.