JTB

Collins has to PROVE more! Sorry but the clock starts now...

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After tonight this will conclude ASG weekend and a BIG focus going forward for the hawks will be defense as a team but in particularly John Collins Defense will start to be singled out (my reasons below)

Before going into that let’s get this out the way there’s no secret Collins has been tremendous this season offensively  on the games he’s played in with his ability to finish plays with his scoring, movement, on and off ball screens, efficiency, rebounding, and we’ve even seen a very slight improvement in his defense (more so around the goal with improved blocked shots).....BUT

...the moment is here and there’s been a ton of chatter in other threads regarding JC and to be honest it’s fair criticism despite his very good offensive numbers!
 

... right before move on take note that I’m definitely not saying let’s trade Collins  (not right now anyways)...but I am starting to figure out Schlenk mindset better now than when he first got here (at least I feel like I am 😂) similar ti Bud, after while you can somewhat grasp what a GM likes in my opinion. Moving on  I am in belief that Schlenk will not give Collins a max or near max deal this summer or perhaps ever unless his defense really improves. BUT JC will be given the time and opportunity starting now and if need be next season as well on a “prove it like year” and here’s my Reasons why:

 

1. This is Traes team! Don’t get it twisted! Like it or not trae is the franchise cornerstone who holds a offensive skillset of a guru, mastermind, expert, the man, the myth, the legend! ....Trae is just that damn great offensively!.....what does this have to do with Collins??? Everything! Collins ain’t Trae despite good offensive numbers! Point of number 1 is to remind you collins offense isn’t good enough to permanently place him as a hawk forever like Trae....sorry but that’s the truth!

2. Above I mentioned that I feel like I’ve started to grasp Schlenk mindset more as time went on...well...I believe Schlenk isn’t trying to do everything exactly like the warriors but when it comes to Trae he sees a player who just isn’t very defensively capable even after improvements. Defense just isn’t Ice Traes thing just like it wasn’t currys thing so that’s not to say Trae shouldn’t put his blood, sweat, and tears on the defensive side cause he SHOULD and should be held accountable when he doesn’t....

3. BUT even then Schlenk KNOWS trae is going to have to have tremendous “help defense” throughout his career which places unfortunate pressure on all his teammates. Of all of Traes teammates Collins is the weakest link right here because (point number 4)....
 

4. The rookies have been pretty good defensively  (cam outstanding defensively for a rookie  honestly) and more than likely capela will be awesome and hold down the center position for us extremely well going forward. That leaves a lot of pressure on Collins who has to step up everything defensively to accommodate Trae like the rest of his teammates! ....
 

5. This is the truth that no one wants to admit but Trae is the reason more pressure is on everyone defensively especially Collins ....even if they both get griped at by LP or the rest of the coaching staff at same amount for defensive reasons everyone knows Trae won’t be held accountable at the same level defensively of Collins or anyone else when it comes to the front office making DECISIONS!...Why?...(point number 6)

6. Look at point number 1! This team is being built to accommodate our superstar Trae Young!

 

The good thing about JC situation

-as mentioned above he has time! The rest of this season and more than likely all of next season

-he has an legitimate great excuse of not having a good defensive center until trade Deadline so this issue just got fixed

-hes liked (at least from what I’ve read the players and coaches really like him) so getting help from teammates and coaches to help him advance defensively should be easy  (good he’s not Dieon Waiters like attitude ...his teams usually hate him when he leaves and while he’s there, learned this recently)

 

Conclusion:

im wishing the best for JC! But I’ve realized he’s really being watched on the defensive end and in my opinion more so than his teammates!...I want him to be a hawk forever! This reminds me of the splash bro’s situation (not similar skill set between Trae and JC of course) but Klay really had to step it up defensively if they wanted to go somewhere in the nba world (championships) and I believe that doesn’t get enough attention when that team is mentioned! Can you imagine how far they wouldn’t have gone if Klay never improved tremendously defensively??? Curry improved too yes but not to the level where klay did and started taking on the assignment of the other teams best perimeter player. Let’s get it JC! I know you can do it!

 

🏾

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59 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

To much worry to early. We have yet to put a competent team with some solid vets around Trae and Collins. I am sorry but Len, Jones, Bembry, Vince, Parker, Evans, Crabbe turned out to be anything but competent. We are on the right track with Capela, Dedmon, Teague and possibly Skal; but we still need a vet Wing and PF.

Understandable but I made the point that up until now Collins has had a good excuse being that he’s played with a lot of trash defensive players especially those at center most of this season.

but now with capela and dedmon, there won’t be many excuses for Collins going forward. He HAS to step up on defense.

 

I understand the love for JC (I like him a lot too!) after all he’s home grown, one of our guys who’s grown up in this league so far but one must believe Schlenk has put this guy to the test. The capela trade was just as much for Collins as it was for trae. 

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6 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

You worry too much..

 

Not worried...I can just see into the future 😏 of what’s going to happen if certain things don’t start happening between this time period 

 

 

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Just now, JTB said:

Not worried...I can just see into the future 😏 of what’s going to happen if certain things don’t start happening between this time period 

 

 

Ya definitely good points I’m just playin. It’ll be interesting to see the leap Collins will make, you know, assuming he makes them. 😆 

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You aren't telling us anything new in regards to Collins' defense. It needs improvement.

The team defense was bad when he missed his 25 games and it's still bad with him in spurts.

EVERY single player needs to be accountable for the defense.

Like Pierce said ' Capela isn't the Defensive Saviour'

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3 minutes ago, JTB said:

Understandable but I made the point that up until now Collins has had a good excuse being that he’s played with a lot of trash defensive players especially those at center most of this season.

but now with capela and dedmon, there won’t be many excuses for Collins going forward. He HAS to step up on defense.

 

I understand the love for JC (I like him a lot too!) after all he’s home grown, one of our guys who’s grown up in this league so far but one must believe Schlenk has put this guy to the test. The capela trade was just as much for Collins as it was for trae. 

We are going to improve with Capela, Dedmon, and Teague; but we are not a finished product. Huerter, Hunter, Reddish need to improve and do their parts as well. They are getting around 50% of the major ( starter type ) minutes being given out.

We still need someone to replace Vince Carter as our stretch four off the bench. I don't think John at center in spot situations is always a bad play; but it is when your stretch four is Vince. Hunter has a ways to go to be a defensive stopper as well.

Long story short, we need more than just Capela, Dedmon and Teague to say we have solid depth; or that we will be a solid defensive team.

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John is on the clock. He will have at least the rest of the season but likely next year as well. 

It's not really John fault. Most star or superstar PGs are at least play decent defense on that end so John doesn't really have to do more than what he is doing as long as our defensive personnel is good. Sadly, that's not the case in Atlanta. 

Since we got guys now thinking I am a John hater which is far from the truth, I will just play the sidelines since Capela is coming. 

 

Edited by NBASupes
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Me and Buzzard couldn't be further apart. He wants a vet wing who can start. I just think we should roll with the kids and let them go through their bumps. 

He thinks much more of Collins than I do long term. I think we should make Harrell the primary target and sign him. Regardless if he starts or doesn't start, I want to see who makes us better long term. Since Collins is so low on the salary poll, we got options. I just know the sooner, the better in terms of compensation. 

My targets for free Agency are

1. Harrell

2. Backup wing who can defend 3 to 4. 

3. A vet PDS wing

I used to want a stretch 4 but those guys are going to be hard to sign after speaking around on what's available this year in FA.

For him

1. A vet wing to start

2. Stretch 4

Idk what else he wants. 

I don't see the vet wing available nor a stretch 4 for a reasonable price that's available. I don't believe Bertrans is available. His agent and the Wizards want to make a deal to retain him and see him as part of their core.

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Just now, NBASupes said:

Me and Buzzard couldn't be further apart. He wants a vet wing who can start. I just think we should roll with the kids and let them go through their bumps. 

He thinks much more of Collins than I do long term. I think we should make Harrell the primary target and sign him. Regardless if he starts or doesn't start, I want to see who makes us better long term. Since Collins is so low on the salary poll, we got options. I just know the sooner, the better in terms of compensation. 

My targets for free Agency are

1. Harrell

2. Backup wing who can defend 3 to 4. 

3. A vet PDS wing

I used to want a stretch 4 but those guys are going to be hard to sign after speaking around on what's available this year in FA.

For him

1. A vet wing to start

2. Stretch 4

Idk what else he wants. 

I don't see the vet wing available nor a stretch 4 for a reasonable price that's available. I don't believe Bertrans is available. His agent and the Wizards want to make a deal to retain him and see him as part of their core.

Stop telling me I want something I don't . You are whining again about nothing. Read my post and look at the lineups I proposed. The wing is for the bench. We do not have one in my opinion. Vince, Graham, Bembry need to be replaced with a adequate player or players.

Grant and Crowder have come off the bench before. Pay them and they will do it happily again. Things change and Bertans could possibly be had if enough monetary pressure is applied. Wall 41.2 Million, Beal 28.7, Bertans 15 to 20 Million. That is 85 to 90 million for three players; and that ain't no big three.

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17 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Stop telling me I want something I don't . You are whining again about nothing. Read my post and look at the lineups I proposed. The wing is for the bench. We do not have one in my opinion. Vince, Graham, Bembry need to be replaced with a adequate player or players.

Grant and Crowder have come off the bench before. Pay them and they will do it happily again. Things change and Bertans could possibly be had if enough monetary pressure is applied. Wall 41.2 Million, Beal 28.7, Bertans 15 to 20 Million. That is 85 to 90 million for three players; and that ain't no big three.

You literally mention you wanted Porter Jr multiple times till you finally listened to me about he's not opting out. 

That is what you wanted, I can't help you changed your mind

They already made moves to get rid of players so they can focus on resigning Bertrans. That's why I said, the reports out of Washington is he's a part of their core. 

You need to move on from Bertrans like Porter Jr. He's not available honestly. If he was, you wouldn't think I would be trade John, sign both Harrell and Bertrans instead?

Edited by NBASupes

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2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You aren't telling us anything new in regards to Collins' defense. It needs improvement.

The team defense was bad when he missed his 25 games and it's still bad with him in spurts.

EVERY single player needs to be accountable for the defense.

Like Pierce said ' Capela isn't the Defensive Saviour'

I know but it needed it’s own thread . It’s a new hot topic that’s centered around JC now that we’ve made some good trades. Outside of Trae he’s the worse defender in the starting lineup that includes capela.

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29 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Stop telling me I want something I don't . You are whining again about nothing. Read my post and look at the lineups I proposed. The wing is for the bench. We do not have one in my opinion. Vince, Graham, Bembry need to be replaced with a adequate player or players.

Grant and Crowder have come off the bench before. Pay them and they will do it happily again. Things change and Bertans could possibly be had if enough monetary pressure is applied. Wall 41.2 Million, Beal 28.7, Bertans 15 to 20 Million. That is 85 to 90 million for three players; and that ain't no big three.

I like the idea of grant or crowder but I’m not thinking we can get crowder now that he’s in MIA. He likely will want to stay there 

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9 minutes ago, JTB said:

I like the idea of grant or crowder but I’m not thinking we can get crowder now that he’s in MIA. He likely will want to stay there 

I agree with that to some extent but Miami might take a hit in the playoffs they are not expecting. Their young shooters have cooled off and it shows in their last month and half performance. I do think Crowder with his bulldog mentality and decent three point shooting would be a great fit for this young team. We have some money. In 2021 Miami clears a good bit of cap but this year they are hard pressed. Riley is rumored to not want any extra long term contracts so he can be ready in 2021.

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53 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You literally mention you wanted Porter Jr multiple times till you finally listened to me about he's not opting out. 

That is what you wanted, I can't help you changed your mind

They already made moves to get rid of players so they can focus on resigning Bertrans. That's why I said, the reports out of Washington is he's a part of their core. 

You need to move on from Bertrans like Porter Jr. He's not available honestly. If he was, you wouldn't think I would be trade John, sign both Harrell and Bertrans instead?

I still like Porter but he will be to expensive as I suspect Grant will. I am not sure the Bulls want to pay Porter. Their fan base is pretty up in arms about their current leadership being tightfisted and want them gone. But there is more than just us with cap. Charlotte, Detroit, Miami, and New York. Miami is chasing 2021 with their cap and have about 26.5 million free. I think they will be careful when it comes to long term deals. Charlotte, Detroit, and the Knicks will be competing with us.

I see Bertans, Crowder, and Grant being sought after and leaving. We just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think 45 million front loaded over three years would be competitive for Bertans; but someone may offer him more.

Edited by Buzzard

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People smarter than me may be able to pull some numbers and advanced stats but I was just watching some of last year’s highlights and I’m trying to figure out how a starting 5 to finish out 2019 of:

Trae(R), Kev (R), Prince (3rd), Collins (2nd) and Dedmon 

Appeared to look and play better defense than the most recent lineup of:

Trae(2nd), Kev (2nd), Hunter (R), John (3rd), and Dedmon.

The only difference is Hunter for Prince. But the entire starting lineup otherwise is now back and  more experienced overall than the one we had last year, yet somehow we look much much more lost than we EVER did last season.

This is why I can’t sit here and single out Collins, Trae or anyone. There is a huge disconnect between coaching/preparation and what’s being executed in game day and it is larger than problem than just ability or youth.

Disclaimer, I know we weren’t good on defense last year either but we were much more competitive and cohesive as a unit on defense to close out the year. And honestly, we’re looking really good in a small sample size to open this year on defense too. Something was lost behind the scenes 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Me and Buzzard couldn't be further apart. He wants a vet wing who can start. I just think we should roll with the kids and let them go through their bumps. 

He thinks much more of Collins than I do long term. I think we should make Harrell the primary target and sign him. Regardless if he starts or doesn't start, I want to see who makes us better long term. Since Collins is so low on the salary poll, we got options. I just know the sooner, the better in terms of compensation. 

My targets for free Agency are

1. Harrell

2. Backup wing who can defend 3 to 4. 

3. A vet PDS wing

I used to want a stretch 4 but those guys are going to be hard to sign after speaking around on what's available this year in FA.

For him

1. A vet wing to start

2. Stretch 4

Idk what else he wants. 

I don't see the vet wing available nor a stretch 4 for a reasonable price that's available. I don't believe Bertrans is available. His agent and the Wizards want to make a deal to retain him and see him as part of their core.

The team DOES need a veteran wing that can start.  As long as the team is letting the young uns take their lumps, they are going to be taking losses instead of wins.  

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14 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

People smarter than me may be able to pull some numbers and advanced stats but I was just watching some of last year’s highlights and I’m trying to figure out how a starting 5 to finish out 2019 of:

Trae(R), Kev (R), Prince (3rd), Collins (2nd) and Dedmon 

Appeared to look and play better defense than the most recent lineup of:

Trae(2nd), Kev (2nd), Hunter (R), John (3rd), and Dedmon.

The only difference is Hunter for Prince. But the entire starting lineup otherwise is now back and  more experienced overall than the one we had last year, yet somehow we look much much more lost than we EVER did last season.

This is why I can’t sit here and single out Collins, Trae or anyone. There is a huge disconnect between coaching/preparation and what’s being executed in game day and it is larger than problem than just ability or youth.

Disclaimer, I know we weren’t good on defense last year either but we were much more competitive and cohesive as a unit on defense to close out the year. And honestly, we’re looking really good in a small sample size to open this year on defense too. Something was lost behind the scenes 

 

 

 

The team that finished last season caught some teams off guard and were overlooked by others.  They aren’t sneaking up on teams this year, and that is the reason I anticipated a drop in the win total from last year to this year.  

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2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

You literally mention you wanted Porter Jr multiple times till you finally listened to me about he's not opting out. 

That is what you wanted, I can't help you changed your mind

They already made moves to get rid of players so they can focus on resigning Bertrans. That's why I said, the reports out of Washington is he's a part of their core. 

You need to move on from Bertrans like Porter Jr. He's not available honestly. If he was, you wouldn't think I would be trade John, sign both Harrell and Bertrans instead?

Here is what I posted that has you in such a fit.

Quote

Until the Capela and Teague trade, I was all about Center, BU Point Guard, Shooter, BU Power Forward who could also be a shooter.

Now I want to keep Teague and chase shooters.

Bertrans, Bogdanovic, and Porter are my favorites. I think all three could take up more cap than most here want to pay, But that is life in the modern NBA; shooting is valued and you have to pay for it. Jerami Grant is a pretty weak rebounding player for his size; but he has shot well the past two seasons. Crowder is way down my list but he could be the best bargain.

I do not see any of my three favorites taking less than 15 million a year on a pretty long term deal; but maybe one of them would take 20 - 25 on a one year deal so they can try and reap the benefits of the 2021 free agent frenzy. With Jokic, Harris, Murray, and Barton all on guaranteed contracts, Grant will be a push for Denver to keep so he could be had.

Porter is a combo forward who could fill two spots for us. But I even said he may be to expensive as the other two as well. You did not tell me that, I said it in my first post that mentioned Porter. Bertans was also on my list but you only want to rant about Porter. Sorry man but I no longer want a energy big grabbing boards ( Harrell ) as much as I want to fill our bench with shooters and two way players.

The pickings are slim for both but with Capela and Dedmon, we no longer need to fill a rebounding big spot. That is my opinion and no harm in agreeing to disagree.

Link to that first post:

https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/431738-half-the-season-behind-us-what-fa-targets-are-you-most-hoping-on-schlenks-radar/page/7/#comments

 

Edited by Buzzard

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