Collins has to PROVE more! Sorry but the clock starts now...

[High5]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Why? 

Honestly, we can pay them both. We have the money due to the lack of what either Hunter or Reddish cost us and Kevin really shouldn't cost much. 

Why would you ever want to play Harrell and Capela together? They've literally made a combined 1 shot from 16+ feet. John provides so much more spacing and he's better around the basket. And he's still only 22. He's not a finished product. 

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, High5 said:

Why would you ever want to play Harrell and Capela together? They've literally made a combined 1 shot from 16+ feet. John provides so much more spacing and he's better around the basket. And he's still only 22. He's not a finished product. 

Yes, I would play Harrell with Collins, w/o Collins. Unlike Collins, he's actually good defending at both positions. He's just better at defending the 4. 

If you got a rotation of Harrell/Collins/Capela/Dedmon. That's as good as Portland 2000-01 and some. Best frontcourt we have seen in ages. All fit Trae perfectly. So I don't see any reason why not. 

John does provide more spacing. Harrell provides better screens and post play. One of the best post up players in the league. Both offer a lot offensively. I would argue both will heavily benefit Trae/Cam/Kevin/Hunter offensively. 

The obvious difference is defensively. Harrell is more like Millsap while John is more like a Michael Beasley on that end. Just an massive difference. Offensively, both add a lot of value. Harrell ability to finish v. contact is really underrated by those who don't watch him enough. 

Saying he is only 22 doesn't mean much. He doesn't really have an high ceiling. John seems to have peaked already. I can see him getting better but not like a lot. I honestly think Kevin has more potential than John. John might be 5th on my potential chart of current players. 

Maybe, you just need a better basketball brain if you can't see how this would tremendously help us. It's not like we got VC stealing mins like he is this year next season. 

Edited February 17, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, High5 said:

lol.  Have a good night. 

It's not that hard. If you can't see how one of the best PF/C can't help us, I don't know how to help you. Harrell literally has 7th best WAR of all NBA bigs. 

[Buzzard]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Stop it slime. In the WAR, that's more wins per starter than what any team in the NBA right now outside of Milwaukee. Cam has been a +2 WAR since Dec. Hunter will figure it out next year. 

 

@Buzzard, why are you laughing at this, he would think even worse if I listed Collins. You are an anti-fan too like KB I see. 

I laughed for two reasons. 1st one is reality: we have Collins and not Harrell. 2nd is just as obvious: I don't expect that team would create NBA history by more than doubling this years win total. Now have another drink, or pill, or toke, or something to calm yourself down. What ever it takes.

This is like the 3rd time in the past three weeks you have gotten personal with the insults. That is in 99.9% of the cases what immature people and/or those who know they have lost some debate go to as their last resort.

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Buzzard

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I laughed for two reasons. 1st one is reality: we have Collins and not Harrell. 2nd is even more obvious: I don't expect that team would create NBA history by more than doubling this years win total. Now have another drink or or pill or toke or something to calm yourself down. What ever it takes.

 

Anti-Hawks fan. That much is obvious. 

We could easily double our wins because some of the trash we had in DEC was gone by JAN and we completely upgraded in a number of areas. We aren't just doubling from DEC team. Honestly, your lack of respect is the reason I constantly look at you in disgust. I could care less about your feelings, especially when you seem to care less about others as well. You notice, I dish it to those who give it. 

The lack of sense in this post is asinine. 

Edited February 17, 2020 by NBASupes

[KB21]

With the way Lloyd Pierce runs his offense, Harrell and Capela would be a horrible fit together.  Now, if Bud were still coaching the team, I would have all the confidence in the world that Harrell’s range could be expanded, AND that his strengths would be utilized.  He does kind of remind me of a young Paul Millsap in many ways.  Bud unlocked Millsap’s range on his shot after Danny Ferry, the best GM the Hawks have ever had, made that great signing.  

[AHF]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Yes, I would play Harrell with Collins, w/o Collins. Unlike Collins, he's actually good defending at both positions. He's just better at defending the 4. 

If you got a rotation of Harrell/Collins/Capela/Dedmon. That's as good as Portland 2000-01 and some. Best frontcourt we have seen in ages. All fit Trae perfectly. So I don't see any reason why not. 

John does provide more spacing. Harrell provides better screens and post play. One of the best post up players in the league. Both offer a lot offensively. I would argue both will heavily benefit Trae/Cam/Kevin/Hunter offensively. 

The obvious difference is defensively. Harrell is more like Millsap while John is more like a Michael Beasley on that end. Just an massive difference. Offensively, both add a lot of value. Harrell ability to finish v. contact is really underrated by those who don't watch him enough. 

Saying he is only 22 doesn't mean much. He doesn't really have an high ceiling. John seems to have peaked already. I can see him getting better but not like a lot. I honestly think Kevin has more potential than John. John might be 5th on my potential chart of current players. 

Maybe, you just need a better basketball brain if you can't see how this would tremendously help us. It's not like we got VC stealing mins like he is this year next season. 

@NBASupes - This is totally unnecessary and isn't going to fly.  Stop taking shots at posters and focus on the addressing the content of their posts.  High5 had said nothing to warrant an insult like that.  This site is a common forum for Hawks fans.  We can debate - even heatedly - with each other while showing each other respect even when we disagree.  

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

@NBASupes - This is totally unnecessary and isn't going to fly.  Stop taking shots at posters and focus on the addressing the content of their posts.  High5 had said nothing to warrant an insult like that.  This site is a common forum for Hawks fans.  We can debate - even heatedly - with each other while showing each other respect even when we disagree.  

I feel like I've been getting ganged up on of late. You know if people give it to me, I'll dish it back.

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

With the way Lloyd Pierce runs his offense, Harrell and Capela would be a horrible fit together.  Now, if Bud were still coaching the team, I would have all the confidence in the world that Harrell’s range could be expanded, AND that his strengths would be utilized.  He does kind of remind me of a young Paul Millsap in many ways.  Bud unlocked Millsap’s range on his shot after Danny Ferry, the best GM the Hawks have ever had, made that great signing.  

I agree that they seem like they would not work together offensively.  But if we also have JC and Dedmon, then you can pair Harrell or Capela with either of them for a much more natural fit.  The challenge would be how to fit 4 guys of this quality into a mere 96 minutes of time.  

[AHF]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I feel like I've been getting ganged up on of late. You know if people give it to me, I'll dish it back.

If you feel like you need to go personal, then just step away.  I don't want to have to give anyone timeouts. High5 made a post about matching two players with limited shooting ranges together on the floor at the same time.  There is no world in which calling him any version of stupid is a response that it worthy of you.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I agree that they seem like they would not work together.  But if we also have JC and Dedmon, then you can pair Harrell or Capela with either of them for a much more natural fit.  The challenge would be how to fit 4 guys of this quality into a mere 96 minutes of time.  

Maybe, but you shouldn’t expect Lloyd Pierce to figure out how to actually use all four guys properly.  I mean, Lloyd at this point has shown that he has a one track mind when it comes to doing things.  

[AHF]

Just now, KB21 said:

Maybe, but you shouldn’t expect Lloyd Pierce to figure out how to actually use all four guys properly.  I mean, Lloyd at this point has shown that he has a one track mind when it comes to doing things.  

Next year will be his "up or out" season.  I doubt TS makes a change this offseason and doubt he will tolerate anything but pretty dramatic improvement next year.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Next year will be his "up or out" season.  I doubt TS makes a change this offseason and doubt he will tolerate anything but pretty dramatic improvement next year.

I personally believe that when Lloyd is shown the door, Travis should be shown the door as well.

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I personally believe that when Lloyd is shown the door, Travis should be shown the door as well.

I'm not shocked to hear this as I'm pretty sure you believe he should have been shown the door the day after he was hired.

[Lurker]

De'Andre Hunter is going to be just about in poop or get off the pot mode for me honestly with 20/21 more than "don't count on him making a jump" mode. It's not like you're talking about a 20 year old rookie where you have plenty of time, he's 22 and is going to be 23 next year. Its about time to show something.

It's not that its been all awful for him, its that he's already on the older side and was thought of to not have a high ceiling anyway. I do think however he's been harmed the most by bad decision making by Schlenk last offseason, which led the Hawks to have no depth at the wing, and he came from a system that's slower than most and college basketball goes twice a week until tournaments. I think he's just gassed, wasn't quite ready to move to a faster system and playing more per week (and he would look absolutely horrendous on back to backs early on, which would lean to that theory). He's had days where he's flashed what I think most would expect, I think the expectation/hope, should lie with him coming in better prepared for the NBA season in 20/21, and to have more of his better offensive games that he has had.

But I also think you could gain a fair bit from having veterans that can still play and show the way that are bench players. Carter could still play a little last year, but this year he can't. He's still apparently helping Reddish a good deal despite that though.

[High5]

I really don't have a problem with Supes taking a rather tame shot at me. I give him crap all the time for what I feel are silly posts. He's stepped way more over the line with what he's been saying to Buzzard lately lol. 

Obviously, barring a clash of a egos, signing Harrell to back up John would make us a better team next season. But 1) I don't think that's the best use of our resources and 2) that wasn't what the discussion was about. It was about Capela + Harrell instead of John, which, IMO, would be a much worse combination on offense. Any defensive advantages would still add up to a net loss. 

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

With the way Lloyd Pierce runs his offense, Harrell and Capela would be a horrible fit together.  Now, if Bud were still coaching the team, I would have all the confidence in the world that Harrell’s range could be expanded, AND that his strengths would be utilized.  He does kind of remind me of a young Paul Millsap in many ways.  Bud unlocked Millsap’s range on his shot after Danny Ferry, the best GM the Hawks have ever had, made that great signing.  

How? 

LP system is heavy PnR based. Both players are great screeners. We had Jabari Parker who is similar to Harrell without the PnR ability and he has off the wall offensive metrics with our offense. He's still in the top 10 of OBPM. He was 3rd for most of the year. 

You keep saying this but it's not true. 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

If you feel like you need to go personal, then just step away.  I don't want to have to give anyone timeouts. High5 made a post about matching two players with limited shooting ranges together on the floor at the same time.  There is no world in which calling him any version of stupid is a response that it worthy of you.

That wasn't the post that he took a shot

[NBASupes]

10 hours ago, High5 said:

It's hilarious that you think John sucks but Harrell would get us to 70 wins. Or 60. Or 50. 

@AHF, I don't think John sucks. This was that trying to be slick bullshit to belittle my take because I don't see John the way he does.

Edited February 17, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

Harrell would be a great fit in our heavy PnR system. With Capela, Collins, and Dedmon.