Premium Member sturt Posted February 20, 2020 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 41 minutes ago, KB21 said: Tell that to all the teams that draft in the lottery year after year. Can't help but notice that we're still waiting on those raw numbers you were going to put in a chart as support for this particular assertion. But I suppose that might actually be persuasive, and persuasive isn't actually a thing you're going for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member sturt Posted February 20, 2020 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, Spud2nique said: And a fake a$$ PHD (playa hata degree ) Thought it was an MD... did I miss something? PhD? PhD in.... what, Dance? (That being what he seems to do a lot here.) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, sturt said: Thought it was an MD... did I miss something? PhD? PhD in.... what, Dance? (That being what he seems to do a lot here.) Indeed and MD. I had playa hata on my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 5 hours ago, Bonkers said: I think many of you will find it surprising that i've shifted blame of this teams failures from LP to the players themselves There comes a time when pride should kick in and you get tired of being embarrassed on the court and take it upon yourself to improve your weak areas (mainly team defense) and hold each other accountable. I still give the rookies a pass tho becuz they're rookies after all. But players like Sir Render are gonna feel my wrath. His trash ass can begone Who is playing Sir Render all of those minutes though? When guys like Lou Williams, Jamal Crawford, and Jordan Clarkson were proven to be offensive assets, but defensive liabilities, they moved them to 6th man roles. That gave them the leeway to play them when they were hot, or sit them when they are cold. If the team is better on the floor with Huerter, then play him heavy minutes. But if they're better with Cam on the floor, whose fault is it if Cam doesn't get the minutes, even when productive? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said: Who is playing Sir Render all of those minutes though? When guys like Lou Williams, Jamal Crawford, and Jordan Clarkson were proven to be offensive assets, but defensive liabilities, they moved them to 6th man roles. That gave them the leeway to play them when they were hot, or sit them when they are cold. If the team is better on the floor with Huerter, then play him heavy minutes. But if they're better with Cam on the floor, whose fault is it if Cam doesn't get the minutes, even when productive? I agree and have been saying this almost all season. In the middle of good runs, I seen players pulled. In the middle of bad runs, I have seen players left out there. Except for the injury minutes restrictions, throw the little minutes card away and play the hot hand( s ). Counting on Vince to save our ass is a strategy that is about a decade to late. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted February 20, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, KB21 said: Like those Sacramento Kings, Phoenix Suns, Minnesota Timberwolves, Charlotte Hornets, New Orleans Pelicans.....etc. The difference is that I don't try to pretend that teams like those who rinse and repeat the lottery don't exist. You try to pretend like there are no championship and playoff teams that spent 3+ years in the lottery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, AHF said: The difference is that I don't try to pretend that teams like those who rinse and repeat the lottery don't exist. You try to pretend like there are no championship and playoff teams that spent extended times in the lottery. So, you would rather pretend that one team who spent an extended amount of time in the lottery who won championships offsets the fact that every single other championship won in the modern NBA has been won by teams who DID NOT have extended periods in the lottery? I mean, 9 teams have won the NBA title since 1999. Only Golden State spent an extensive amount of time in the lottery when building their championship roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted February 20, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 42 minutes ago, KB21 said: So, you would rather pretend that one team who spent an extended amount of time in the lottery who won championships offsets the fact that every single other championship won in the modern NBA has been won by teams who DID NOT have extended periods in the lottery? I mean, 9 teams have won the NBA title since 1999. Only Golden State spent an extensive amount of time in the lottery when building their championship roster. What? I haven't even looked up who those 9 teams are but cleveland tanked, spurs tanked, dallas tanked. How do you think these teams got Lebron, Duncan, Nowitzki? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, macdaddy said: What? I haven't even looked up who those 9 teams are but cleveland tanked, spurs tanked, dallas tanked. How do you think these teams got Lebron, Duncan, Nowitzki? None of those teams tanked. The Spurs have drafted in the lottery something like 3 times in the past 35 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted February 20, 2020 Premium Member Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Maaan! Some of you all have the patience of Job. . We Tanked, got our Supa-Sta and the rebuild continues. Deal with it! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 The amount of energy it would take to combat....nevermind....maybe just find another team guy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonkers Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said: Who is playing Sir Render all of those minutes though? When guys like Lou Williams, Jamal Crawford, and Jordan Clarkson were proven to be offensive assets, but defensive liabilities, they moved them to 6th man roles. That gave them the leeway to play them when they were hot, or sit them when they are cold. If the team is better on the floor with Huerter, then play him heavy minutes. But if they're better with Cam on the floor, whose fault is it if Cam doesn't get the minutes, even when productive? I'm not saying LP is perfect and doesn't need to improve. But I mean I'm tired of talking about him at this point lol The players gotta step up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member sturt Posted February 21, 2020 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 41 minutes ago, KB21 said: None of those teams tanked. The Spurs have drafted in the lottery something like 3 times in the past 35 years. Tanking isn't really the issue. Tanking is one path to the desired destination. Bottom line, regardless of why you were bad enough to draft high, the point remains, you were bad enough that you were allowed to draft high, and when you drafted high, you may have been lucky enough to have gotten one of the very, very few #6-#15 gems who was good enough to be a top 5 MVP finalist in multiple years (DAL), or you may have been so very bad that you were rewarded with a #1 pick, which gave you statistically about a 33% shot at obtaining an elite talent capable like that to lead your team to a championship. There is no better way for a non-major-market team to get one of those. That kind of acquisition has never happened in free agency for a non-major market team except in two situations involving the same player--the first time, when he came to believe he would never be able to win a ring unless he collaborated with two pals in manipulating the system, and the second time, when he felt guilt for having left his hometown that drafted him. And it has never happened via trade under the modern CBA, either, of course. Look, I was a skeptic myself. I wasn't on-board with Schlenk's decision when it first became apparent that was how he was moving. And I haven't always agreed with Schlenk's decisions by any stretch. But when I finally sat down and studied it, and let the numbers either substantiate to me that this was indeed the smarter path or affirm what I'd thought previously that the numbers were all over the place... I came to see what Schlenk evidently already saw. The retort has been, "Yeah, but look at all the teams who have been so bad, drafting so high for so long." Let's assume you're right. No numbers yet provided by you to validate that. In fact, you've seemed allergic to even being interested to look at it (which in itself is a little suspect). But let's grant you that as fact. Who said all those teams who have been so bad for so long and drafted high for so long had an above-average young-talent-assessor for their GM? That's a critical missing ingredient in the recipe, in fact. If you don't have that, then you're mostly a slave to the random chance that your GM might stumble onto a player who will become elite. Do we have an above-average young-talent-assessor for our GM? That's where this conversation/debate is better centered. That is the tipping point issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 55 minutes ago, Thomas said: The amount of energy it would take to combat....nevermind....maybe just find another team guy. Say it again for the people in the back. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS5 Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 This dude is single handedly making the squawk unreadable... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Sothron said: You know what he is. Everyone on this site knows what he is. This is the only site I've ever seen in the history of the internet that somehow considers the word "troll" so evil that you can't call one out when you see it. He sprays his constant negativity in every thread to derail them to his pathetic agendas. As I said in response to an above post you don't need terrible to appreciate good. Whoever notified him the site was back knowing it would introduce the coronavirus back to our site needs to step forth and explain themselves. He said someone specifically sent him a message to tell him it was back. My ignore user list could use a second name. LOL . . tell em how you really feel! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, macdaddy said: What? I haven't even looked up who those 9 teams are but cleveland tanked, spurs tanked, dallas tanked. How do you think these teams got Lebron, Duncan, Nowitzki? Fun fact abut the Cavs that I heard on NBA Radio this morning. The last time the Cavs had a winning season when Lebron was not on the team, was 1997. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted February 21, 2020 Premium Member Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, DS5 said: This dude is single handedly making the squawk unreadable... Here's a secret...there's an ignore button. It's done wonders for my sanity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 30 minutes ago, sturt said: Tanking isn't really the issue. Tanking is one path to the desired destination. Bottom line, regardless of why you were bad enough to draft high, the point remains, you were bad enough that you were allowed to draft high, and when you drafted high, you may have been lucky enough to have gotten one of the very, very few #6-#15 gems who was good enough to be a top 5 MVP finalist in multiple years (DAL), or you may have been so very bad that you were rewarded with a #1 pick, which gave you statistically about a 33% shot at obtaining an elite talent capable like that to lead your team to a championship. There is no better way for a non-major-market team to get one of those. That kind of acquisition has never happened in free agency for a non-major market team except in two situations involving the same player--the first time, when he came to believe he would never be able to win a ring unless he collaborated with two pals in manipulating the system, and the second time, when he felt guilt for having left his hometown that drafted him. And it has never happened via trade under the modern CBA, either, of course. Look, I was a skeptic myself. I wasn't on-board with Schlenk's decision when it first became apparent that was how he was moving. And I haven't always agreed with Schlenk's decisions by any stretch. But when I finally sat down and studied it, and let the numbers either substantiate to me that this was indeed the smarter path or affirm what I'd thought previously that the numbers were all over the place... I came to see what Schlenk evidently already saw. The retort has been, "Yeah, but look at all the teams who have been so bad, drafting so high for so long." Let's assume you're right. No numbers yet provided by you to validate that. In fact, you've seemed allergic to even being interested to look at it (which in itself is a little suspect). But let's grant you that as fact. Who said all those teams who have been so bad for so long and drafted high for so long had an above-average young-talent-assessor for their GM? That's a critical missing ingredient in the recipe, in fact. If you don't have that, then you're mostly a slave to the random chance that your GM might stumble onto a player who will become elite. Do we have an above-average young-talent-assessor for our GM? That's where this conversation/debate is better centered. That is the tipping point issue. The Sacramento Kings have spent 13 consecutive seasons drafting in the lottery. The Minnesota Timberwolves have spent 14 of the last 15 seasons drafting in the lottery. They had 11 consecutive years, one year in the playoffs, and are now on 3 consecutive seasons drafting in the lottery. The Phoenix Suns have spent 9 consecutive seasons drafting in the lottery. The New York Knicks have spent 6 consecutive seasons drafting in the lottery and have been drafting in the lottery 12 times in the last 15 seasons. The New Orleans Pelicans have drafted in the lottery in 6 of the past 8 seasons. The Charlotte Hornets have drafted in the lottery in 8 of the last 9 drafts. The Detroit Pistons have drafted in the lottery in 8 of the last 10 drafts. I can keep going on if you want me to. The fact is, going from very bad to very good is one of the hardest things to do in sports, no matter what the sport is. It’s why it is a foolish strategy to intentionally be bad. When you are building a team, you don’t draft a superstar, sprinkle some magical pixie dust, and have a playoff competitive team. You have to build a culture, and when you tank to get a high pick, that is not building the right culture. So, the Hawks put themselves behind the 8 ball from the very beginning with Travis’s little experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 Just now, JayBirdHawk said: Here's a secret...there's an ignore button. It's done wonders for my sanity. Have just now initiated. Didn't really think it would come to this but....man alive.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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