De'Andre Hunter

[Buzzard]

5 hours ago, Lurker said:

I don't think that had much, if anything to do with it. I'm going to take Supes side again here somewhat. The ideal spot for Hunter is SF but as of his rookie season he was really a combo forward/small ball 4 that was learning how to play 3 since he was a small ball 4 and not 3 at Virginia.

I've explained my side but I will again. I think playing more, especially on back to backs early, fatigued him, and Pierce admitted giving him too much responsibility with PNR (the former is something I've said before, the latter isn't). I think both has a lot more to do with it. He started looking better, period, when his responsibilities were lessened. Not when your true center was in, just when the responsibilities were lessened.

Everyone has their opinions; but Hunter was projected to be a SF by every draft board you could find. He is 6'7", 235 and it is much easier to battle a Small Forward than some giant that outweighs him by at least 15 pounds. And that is at least 15 pounds, a lot of nights it was more. I understand we were light with the number of bigs we had, but that is still no excuse for playing a rookie out of position along with your 2nd best player when you had other options.

As bad as Len was, he should have been playing center 30 minutes a night. And this is my gripe, until the end of January LP was oblivious to change no matter how bad the outcome. The only rhyme and reason I can find to his rotations is he favored small ball lineups to much. Way to much in my opinion.

Len since being traded is averaging over 6 PTS, 7 TRB. and over a block since being traded and he has not taken a three either. Less than 17 minutes a game and he is doing that with a TS% of around .630.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lenal01/splits/2020

We needed our best players being put in their best positions. LP gets a fail this season with Hunter and Collins as far as I am concerned.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Buzzard

[gurpilo]

Some guys are saying he did ok on defense, I don’t think so.

Can anyone show what are his defensive numbers and stats when playing SF compared to his numbers playing PF and compared to the other wings on Atlanta? Reddish, Huerter, Graham and Bembry. 
If I am not wrong and I think I am not his numbers will show that he did bad as a defender even at SF

[gurpilo]

Looking again at 82 games stats I see team is as bad on the floor with or without him on he floor and from PER point of view or even other stats he did slightly better at PF than SF. My conclusion stay the same he was below average on the league and just average on the team on defense.

I think he is a SF and should play his entire career there. Best lineups for Hawks are the ones that have Hunter and Reddish with Collins or Parker and a traditional center, I CLP understand this and stay on the floor always with Capela and Dedmon I think we are a lock at playoffs. If he does not understand this and keep playing small is time for him to go. Numbers don’t lie.

[Peoriabird]

3 hours ago, gurpilo said:

I think he is a SF and should play his entire career there. Best lineups for Hawks are the ones that have Hunter and Reddish with Collins or Parker and a traditional center, I CLP understand this and stay on the floor always with Capela and Dedmon I think we are a lock at playoffs. If he does not understand this and keep playing small is time for him to go. Numbers don’t lie.

Why more patience with Pierce in his second year over the team's rookies during their 1st even when you see improvement from them late in the season

[Thomas]

Watching Hunter with Cam on the floor together is what calmed me down after about forty games. Defensively together they were really good after the huge acclimation for Cam on offense and the expected one for Hunter in general. They are the swing starters moving forward so am gonna stay optimistic on their defensive performance going into next season and hopefully Hunter gets his minutes almost strictly at SF next time around.

[AHF]

9 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

He had trouble finishing in the paint when he couldn't get all the way to the rim.  Shot only 31.6% from 5ft - 9ft and had 12 of the 57 shots he took from that area, blocked.

Watch the video of these shot attempts from this area and tell me what you see.

https://tinyurl.com/ud7bfzw

 

Not so sure about this.  He's never shown the ability to be a playmaker.  He's always been a put the ball on the floor and shoot the ball type of guy.  Once he puts the ball on the floor, it's not going to be passed to anyone. He's in straight Jabari Parker mode, and is going to shoot that ball.  The big exception is that he doesn't draw fouls on his shot.  That's a big reason why his offensive metrics are so poor.

 

My biggest pet peeve with LP.  No doubt that those small lineups didn't do him any good from a rebounding standpoint.  All of them seemed a little bit overwhelmed at times, when it came to playing more physical against bigger guys.  And truth be told, Hunter was even a slightly below average rebounder at best in college.  That is NOT a strength of his game.  Not even by a long shot.  He showed a little sign that he could go get that ball after the All-Star break.  But that's not what he does.

 

I think he was OK defensively.  It doesn't help when you're being asked to guard people who are bigger and taller than you.  Overall, I think he was decent.

I don't hate the guy at all but all of this is true.  Just because he has more to prove doesn't mean he won't prove it.  I would expect a leap for him next year given his acclimation to becoming more of a wing than he was in college.  The one area where he picked up big time over his rookie season was in rebounding but I'll need to see him sustain that:

You can look at this and see some improvement in the shooting as well looking at 2019 vs 2020 (the March sample was only 5 games).  His two highest TS% months were January and February by far.  Since he doesn't ever project to be a big scorer, the biggest key is efficiency for his improvement and with that will come some improvement in raw ppg or ppm as well.

Same with the A/TO ratio - was much better in 2020.  The DRtg doesn't look good but that is a fairly team dependent number, unlike many of the other metrics that are more in control of the player.

Not the same kind of progression that Cam made but definite improvement over the course of the year.  We'll need him to sustain that progress in 2020-21 if he wants to lock down his starting spot long-term.  I'm excited to see what he does next season.

[gurpilo]

hace 2 horas, Peoriabird dijo:

Why more patience with Pierce in his second year over the team's rookies during their 1st even when you see improvement from them late in the season

Is easy, we all see potential on the rookies but in 2 seasons I have seen very little on the coach, his rotations are not good, his defensive scheme is awful, the offense is not working as was supposed to.... There are reports players are not happy with him... 

[AHF]

27 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

Is easy, we all see potential on the rookies but in 2 seasons I have seen very little on the coach, his rotations are not good, his defensive scheme is awful, the offense is not working as was supposed to.... There are reports players are not happy with him... 

You are preaching to the choir on that one.  Peo sees it the same way.  

For me personally, I think LP is in the "up or out" stage with the Hawks after next season.  They either show significant improvement or he doesn't come into the following season as our coach.

Our young players are not in that position.  We want to see positive development from them but aren't anywhere close to getting rid of them.

[Lurker]

Pierce actually did try to give Hunter some playmaking responsibility, or at least PNR responsibility, unless my memory is so bad I'm mixing things up.

He eventually took it away though and admitted that he was going too far with him too soon with things to do.

Edit: I mean, if you want to be real and not look at how YOU want to how rookies look, especially with a guy that's not supposed to be big offensively anyway, even if I disagree that the small ball 4 thing wasn't that big a deal, Pierce did actually screw up his rookie season. Here, you have a young wing, that's supposed to be defending one of the better offensive players (at least at times), he's sometimes playing the 4, transitioning to a faster scheme (as Virginia plays slower than NBA ball), and he also has some PNR duties. It was all too much ultimately.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Lurker

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

You are preaching to the choir on that one.  Peo sees it the same way.  

For me personally, I think LP is in the "up or out" stage with the Hawks after next season.  They either show significant improvement or he doesn't come into the following season as our coach.

Our young players are not in that position.  We want to see positive development from them but aren't anywhere close to getting rid of them.

There have been trade proposals, potential free agent replacement suggestions, and draft replacement suggestions for all of our wings.  Most people support giving Pierce another pass.

[gurpilo]

Anyone can post defensive performance stats as SF or PF? I have little information but I think he as below average at both positions.

[Buzzard]

21 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

There have been trade proposals, potential free agent replacement suggestions, and draft replacement suggestions for all of our wings.  Most people support giving Pierce another pass.

The coach is almost always considered safe for three to four years after signing the standard five year deal. It is sad but its true. Teams buy out players and spend ten to twenty million on nothing every season; but they hardly ever fire a coach and take the ten - fifteen million dollar loss like that.

I do think Ressler is a owner who thinks outside the box; so there is still hope should LP continue to flounder.

[AHF]

30 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

There have been trade proposals, potential free agent replacement suggestions, and draft replacement suggestions for all of our wings.  Most people support giving Pierce another pass.

If you are asking if I will trade LP for Pops, etc. then the answer is "yes please."  

Teams trade all types of players, even superstars. They almost never trade coaches.

[Peoriabird]

53 minutes ago, AHF said:

If you are asking if I will trade LP for Pops, etc. then the answer is "yes please."  

Teams trade all types of players, even superstars. They almost never trade coaches.

Since being sidelined by the Corona Virus, I started watching a lot of episodes of a football life.  And when I watch the coaches episodes like Bill Parcels or Bill Walsh, it reminds me of how critical the coach is in not just stetting the line ups and calling plays but the Identification of talent and skill and developing those skills of each and every player.  Also teaching them how to win and what things will lose games for them.  Now I know football is a little different than basketball but certain coaches in the NBA did win more than others and its wasn't just that they had more talent even though it helps. There have been many examples of teams with subpar talent that made it to the finals like Iverson's Sixer's and even some that won it  all like Dirk's Dallas team. Don't get me wrong, talent is very important to winning in the NBA but coaching is a close second cause outside of Jordan and Pippen and Pippen wasn't a complete player himself, what did the Bulls have? They even made it to the conference finals without Jordan in 95.  So to me, wasting time with a coach that is obviously below average while you should be searching for that exceptional coach makes no sense to me.

[High5]

The small ball lineup, featuring our core players, was mostly a success based on the numbers. They were +5.3 per 100 possessions together (according to basketball-reference). Considering it included 2 rookies and no one over the age of 22, it's safe to say it's a lineup that will continue to improve and will likely be critical to our success down the road. The key is using it at the appropriate times, which will be easier once Capela is available. 

[Lurker]

2 minutes ago, High5 said:

The small ball lineup, featuring our core players, was mostly a success based on the numbers. They were +5.3 per 100 possessions together (according to basketball-reference). Considering it included 2 rookies and no one over the age of 22, it's safe to say it's a lineup that will continue to improve and will likely be critical to our success down the road. The key is using it at the appropriate times, which will be easier once Capela is available. 

Yeah, I don't think that the idea of playing small should be discarded entirely but it's something that should be a matchup by matchup basis. Against centers that are excellent boarders and aren't a liability if you pull them out, play big, against centers that are a liability if you pull them out, play small in stretches to exploit that.

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, High5 said:

The small ball lineup, featuring our core players, was mostly a success based on the numbers. They were +5.3 per 100 possessions together (according to basketball-reference). Considering it included 2 rookies and no one over the age of 22, it's safe to say it's a lineup that will continue to improve and will likely be critical to our success down the road. The key is using it at the appropriate times, which will be easier once Capela is available. 

You guys continue to simplify the vast responsibility of a Head coach.  Evey one knows that you can't win consistenly with small lineup because your defensive rebounding would suffer as well as you paint defense.  Throw in the worst shooting team that can't hang on to the ball, you have a team that can only win on talent or more specifically when your star players is taking over games.  Bad coaching period!!!!

[hazer]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

If you are asking if I will trade LP for Pops, etc. then the answer is "yes please."  

Teams trade all types of players, even superstars. They almost never trade coaches.

I like El-P and am willing to give him another (partial) year to work with a better roster to see if he grows beyond some of his previous head-scratching decisions. I feel like he's been handcuffed with an extremely young roster and insufficient bench up to this point, affecting his decisions and delaying full installation of his schemes. With Trés/Cam/Dre/JC/Clint starting and a more capable bench of vet PG, Red, lottery pick, Ded, Bruno, FA, and Skal, El-P will need to have the Hawks in the top half of the league on D and competing for playoffs in 20-21 or he's gotta go.

Hope he steps up and progresses like I think he probably will. If not: Quinn Snyder assisted by Vince Carter is my dream team

[High5]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

You guys continue to simplify the vast responsibility of a Head coach.  Evey one know that you can't win consistenly with small lineup because you defensive rebounding would suffer as well as you paint defense.  Throw in the worst shooting team that can't hang on to the ball, you have a team that can only win on talent or more specifically when your star players is taking over games.  Bad coaching period!!!!

That lineup was actually +0.2 on the glass and they all are or project to be good shooters. You're the one who oversimplifies. Not everything is so black and white. You don't need to play with a traditional center all of the time. 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, High5 said:

That lineup was actually +0.2 on the glass and they all are or project to be good shooters. You're the one who oversimplifies. Not everything is so black and white. You don't need to play with a traditional center all of the time. 

1st of all, it hasn't worked at all.  Secondly, the only time it works is when Trae is making ill-advised shots and the team in general shoots 40% or better from 3.  That is not a stable plan unless you are the Houston Rockets and even they are just a 6 seed with no chance at beating the NBA's top teams in the playoffs.  So Pierce has to work with less talented player to develop their skills instead of just throwing a line up out there expecting the players to put it together and figure it out themselves.