Let's Talk Draft Picks

[TheFuzz]

16 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I am always one to admit when I am wrong but I am also one to tell you to **** when you are being obtuse and being an ***.

Lol. Shoulda known better. Lighten up Supes, all meant in good fun

[NBASupes]

 

 

 

[NBASupes]

 

 

 

 

 

[NBASupes]

 

 

 

 

[NBASupes]

 

 

 

[kg01]

Is Okoro a less-athletic Miles Bridges (CHA)?

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Is Okoro a less-athletic Miles Bridges (CHA)?

They are not close to the same player. Bridges more polished but more of a tweener. Okoro is a high BBIQ movement specialist who has a lot of potential on the offensive end while already being NBA ready defensively.

[terrell]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

They are not close to the same player. Bridges more polished but more of a tweener. Okoro is a high BBIQ movement specialist who has a lot of potential on the offensive end while already being NBA ready defensively.

So basically if we want to draft an NBA ready player for the offensive side, we take Edwards,Toppin, Hayes, or maybe even  Deni..... If we want to draft an NBA ready player on the defensive side, we take Okungwu , Okoro, or maybe even Vassel...lol. In other words, we need a player that can contribute as a rookie either offensively or defensively..The hell with waiting on a player who's not ready to contribute right away on either side of the ball.

Edited May 15, 2020 by terrell

[Spud2nique]

6 hours ago, kg01 said:

If anybody wants to veer back on topic, I got a question.

Does Toppin's age not give you pause considering he's still got a lot of work to do.  Is he at his developmental ceiling already?  Yes, he'll get better with experience but how much better?

Okongwu is almost 3 years younger. 

[Spud2nique]

6 hours ago, kg01 said:

Hope no one digs up some old kg posts.

I own 2 Marvin Williams Hawks jerseys but I’m never wrong. 

[NBASupes]

9 hours ago, terrell said:

So basically if we want to draft an NBA ready player for the offensive side, we take Edwards,Toppin, Hayes, or maybe even  Deni..... If we want to draft an NBA ready player on the defensive side, we take Okungwu , Okoro, or maybe even Vassel...lol. In other words, we need a player that can contribute as a rookie either offensively or defensively..The hell with waiting on a player who's not ready to contribute right away on either side of the ball.

Offensive grade going into rookie year:

Toppin 8.5

Edwards 7

Hayes 7.5

Deni 6.5

Offensive grade projection w/o swings

Toppin 9.5

Edwards 10

Hayes 8

Deni 8

Defensive rating going into rookie year

Okungwu 7

Okoro 8.5

Vassel 8

Wiseman 5.5

Def Projections wo swings

Okongwu 8

Okoro 9.5

Vassell 8.5

Wiseman 8

What makes Wiseman interesting is he's a 5.5 on both ends as a rookie which is as impact as your high end G-Leaguer but his potential on offense is a 9 and on defense is a 8. Makes him unique but Okongwu has three swings and and most importantly his fit rating is naturally high for most teams, but for teams like GS his fit rating is exceptional. Chances are, like Toppin, he could be a system star. 

Not really high on Vassell. He has a 2nd round grade. I mark him completely as a SG who can defend 1s as well. I strongly feel his offense is too limited to be more than a role player like Danny Green at that position.

Vassell would be extremely high for me if he had this exact skill-set and was 220-225 but his body type, he looks like he will top out at 205. That's a 2 in this league and offense weighs much heavier for guards over defense. See Trae and Edwards. Trae right now is a 9 with a 10 on offense and a 6 on defense but Edwards 10 is not as valuable as Trae's because of the position. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by NBASupes

[kg01]

10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

They are not close to the same player. Bridges more polished but more of a tweener. Okoro is a high BBIQ movement specialist who has a lot of potential on the offensive end while already being NBA ready defensively.

How would he fit with the wangs we already have that need minutes?

Another question I have for the group ... hey, you have your 'Ask Supes' thread, this is my 'kg Asks' series ...

Should we be worried about level of competition for guys like Ball and, to a lesser degree, Toppin?

I don't necessarily think it's a concern with Toppin, but I certainly think it's a question for Ball.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

How would he fit with the wangs we already have that need minutes?

Another question I have for the group ... hey, you have your 'Ask Supes' thread, this is my 'kg Asks' series ...

Should we be worried about level of competition for guys like Ball and, to a lesser degree, Toppin?

I don't necessarily think it's a concern with Toppin, but I certainly think it's a question for Ball.

4th wing due to his offense going in. 

5.5 on offense. This really hurts him although the fit is extremely high for us which helps. He will take some time on that end. 

For the top guys, they just aren't good enough right now on average. Toppin is ready right now. Ball will take time but he actually played against the best comp of everyone in this class outside of Deni.

There is only 3 guys ready to start as rookies and have an impact to a degree. 

Toppin

Okongwu 

Hayes

Remember, if we did this list for 2018 draft only names on this list would be

Ayton

Luka 

Bagley

JJJ

Wendell Carter Jr.

No Bamba, no Trae, no Shai, no Sexton, no Kevin Huerter, no Mitchell Robinson. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by NBASupes

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

4th wing due to his offense going in. 

5.5 on offense. This really hurts him although the fit is extremely high for us which helps. He will take some time on that end. 

For the top guys, they just aren't good enough right now on average. Toppin is ready right now. Ball will take time but he actually played against the best comp of everyone in this class outside of Deni.

 

That's kinda my issue with taking another wing when we actually need more immediate help.  I think, if we hadn't taken either Redd or Hunter last year, Okoro would make a lot of sense for us.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

That's kinda my issue with taking another wing when we actually need more immediate help.  I think, if we hadn't taken either Redd or Hunter last year, Okoro would make a lot of sense for us.

Looking into the draft and free Agency, 1st-2nd wings are not on the market and ideal 3s on the market are at best 4th wings this year. The reason why many gurus are pushing Okoro to us is that the market for two way who can defend SFs sized wings is extremely limited and Okoro has the potential to be one of the best of those potentially. 

Coach Pearl is pushing Okoro to us as the fit is extremely good and Hunter is still seen as questionable in the eyes of many although I've been saying since the draft, he will need time to adjust to the perimeter full time. At least a year. 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by NBASupes

[hazer]

14 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

And FTR, there isn't anyone here who thinks he's getting a max.

Including Collins. Its a negotiation tactic: he has to ASK for it to establish the counteroffer. Says the Realtor ®

[kg01]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Looking into the draft and free Agency, 1st-2nd wings are not on the market and ideal 3s on the market are at best 4th wings this year. The reason why many gurus are pushing Okoro to us is that the market for two way who can defend SFs sized wings is extremely limited and Okoro has the potential to be one of the best of those potentially. 

Coach Pearl is pushing Okoro to us as the fit is extremely good and Hunter is still seen as questionable in the eyes of many although I've been saying since the draft, he will need time to adjust to the perimeter full time. At least a year. 

 

But all that tells me is Okoro is not a fit due to timing.  You can't draft a guy top5 to be your 3rd or 4th wing.  Or unless they think he'll be better than Hunter, which I don't see.

[NBASupes]

Just now, hazer said:

Including Collins. Its a negotiation tactic: he has to ASK for it to establish the counteroffer. Says the Realtor ®

I've heard grumblings on the market that says there is an outside chance that he could due to his FA class more than anything. That's what Atlanta is hearing as well. No one is viewing him as a max cat but that doesn't mean he won't get it. Next year FA class is loaded with money but after the top guys, it's still loaded with money. Atlanta has the same fear that I have and there is a reason you been hearing smoke because it's real. John people 100% believe he will and can get the max and their lack of willingness to negotiate is a challenge. 

You can say Buddy Hield had the same mindset as well but he wasn't going into a cash loaded FA market like John was. You noticed how Boston had to pony up for Jaylen Brown when they evaluated him at 4/80-4/85. Atlanta and Memphis told his agent that they would max him out. Buddy didn't even get an outside offer but just the fear that someone could because of a weak FA market regardless of cash on average put the fear of God in them to get that deal done. 

There is a lot of money in 2021. Most teams got a max contract or two. A lot of those 2018 and 2019 FA guys are available as well. John actually could get Bazemored

[hazer]

13 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Speaking of Wass he put up the top 50. Okongwu is #4! 
 

 

. 

I was hoping to be able to trade back for him

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

But all that tells me is Okoro is not a fit due to timing.  You can't draft a guy top5 to be your 3rd or 4th wing.  Or unless they think he'll be better than Hunter, which I don't see.

He could be better than long term but definitely not short term. This is the question A LOT of teams are telling scouts with Okoro. Why are we drafting a 3rd or 4th wing with a top 5 pick and some GMs think his potential isn't as clear cut as the scouts. Some question if his shooting could ever be amicable. Some think it could be a strength long term. His scout is consistent to a degree but inconsistent when it comes to his long term projection  

I am on the high end for Okoro. I think it could be amicable but I am not head over heels either. I don't exactly think his shooting will become Tobias Harris type improved either.