Let's Talk Draft Picks

[Dean Walker]

1 minute ago, nathan2331 said:

If you want to trade up for Edwards, it wouldn't cost us Collins. Future picks should get it done considering how poorly this draft is regarded. Huerter would be the only player I'd consider giving up but in reality I don't think it'd take him.

 If we aren’t trading Collins than that probably means our 2021 pick would have to be on the table and that would be an absolute hell no for me lol.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Dean Walker said:

Spacing.

i do not believe jc is a reliable enough 3 point shooter to spread the floor while he and Capela play together.

gallo at the 4 would keep the floor spaced not only for Trae and cam but for Capela in the p&r.

You do realize John Shot 40% from 3 last year and is a career 35% shooter from 3 right?

[nathan2331]

1 minute ago, Dean Walker said:

 If we aren’t trading Collins than that probably means our 2021 pick would have to be on the table and that would be an absolute hell no for me lol.

I think #6, the OKC pick and a 2022 pick (with maybe no protections) should be enough to get it done. If moving up from #8 to #4 cost us #17, 35 and cap relief, Collins is far too valuable in comparison. 

[kg01]

No one in this draft is worth trading Collins and it's not even close.  And I'm not even that high on Collins.

[Peoriabird]

Just now, nathan2331 said:

Collins is far too valuable in comparison. 

This is where you 2 disagree

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

No one in this draft is worth trading Collins and it's not even close.  And I'm not even that high on Collins.

Not again...Don't make this a habit! You don't want to ruin your good reputation agreeing with a rebel like me!

[Dean Walker]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You do realize John Shot 40% from 3 last year and is a career 35% shooter from 3 right?

For 1 year, his previous 2 seasons he shot under 35%.

So let’s see if he can sustain this. Now again I hope he does because it can change the total completion of our team going forward.

but we shall see.

[Peoriabird]

Just now, Dean Walker said:

For 1 year, his previous 2 seasons he shot under 35%

Ummm So did Trae!  Do you think Trae can't shoot?

[Dean Walker]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Ummm So did Trae!  Do you think Trae can't shoot?

Trae was/is a known shooter. it was one of his elite skills along with his vision coming out of college.

 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Dean Walker said:

Trae was/is a known shooter. it was one of his elite skills along with his vision coming out of college.

 

Trae's Career shooting percentage in the NBA from 3 is lower than John's and these are the facts and not speculation.  But yet John has something to prove but Trae doesn't?  What kind of logic is that.  Markelle Fultz projected to be a good 3 point shooter in the NBA.  How did that turn out?

[Dean Walker]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Trae's Career shooting percentage in the NBA from 3 is lower than John's and these are the facts and not speculation.  But yet John has something to prove but Trae doesn't?  What kind of logic is that.  Markelle Fultz projected to be a good 3 point shooter in the NBA.  How did that turn out?

Trae young takes triple the amount of 3’s per game that jc does so that comparison doesn’t really hold much weight.

As for Fultz he wasn’t know to be a shooter coming out of college. He was viewed as an all around big pg. Totally different prospect than Trae.

Again I don’t want to come off as hating jc because he seems like a really good kid. I just don’t see the fit long term unless he makes the necessary progress Some of you are anticipating.

i just don’t see. I hope he proves me wrong though. I really do.

[AHF]

I'm not a believer yet that 40% is sustainable.  3pt% can be a pretty volatile number that is an elite %.  However, I am a believer that JC has demonstrated impressive improvement with his jumper and that him being a threat from deep is sustainable.  Look at the improvement made in volume and % over the years.  If he regresses to 36% or something, that is still perfectly viable.

That kind of improvement is really encouraging for a guy with a standout base of interior finishing and rebounding.  

[Peoriabird]

19 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm not a believer yet that 40% is sustainable.  3pt% can be a pretty volatile number that is an elite %.  However, I am a believer that JC has demonstrated impressive improvement with his jumper and that him being a threat from deep is sustainable.  Look at the improvement made in volume and % over the years.  If he regresses to 36% or something, that is still perfectly viable.

That kind of improvement is really encouraging for a guy with a standout base of interior finishing and rebounding.  

Plus he is a career 35% 3 point shooter.  I can see if he shot like Bembry his 1st 2 years and then suddenly took a jump in his 3rd year which was shortened.  I just don't understand why john doubters only see his perceived negatives and not his upside and improvements from year to year!  It is a curious phenomenon to me.  On the flip side, they watch guys like Okoro or Edwards play and see all upside.  I need Counseling understand this @AHF  Can you help?

[terrell]

6 hours ago, Dean Walker said:

Thanks I’ve been a long time lurker and I’m happy to be aboard.

- I think at 6 we should take Deni or okoro. I know everybody’s talking about Haliburton but I don’t want to waste the 6th pick on a backup pg. if theirs anyway  we can move up for ant man we should do it.

-ideally we should be targeting either gallo or bertans. I would love to pry Christian wood away from Detroit but I doubt it’s possible .I’m Not very high on fvv  I would stay away from him. Other vets I hope we look at are Justin Holiday,Marco Belinelli, and Jae crowder.

-my ideal roster would be:

pg.trae/Lonzo-sg.Cam/Kevin H-sf.gallo/hunter-PF.JC/hunter-C.Capela/JC

That’s a playoff team imo. Especially if cam makes the leap I think he will.

Gallo over Hunter at SF? No thanks...Hes the backup PF if anything..

Edited September 6, 2020 by terrell

[warcore]

4 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I've seen a lot of posters wanting to trade Collins because they don't believe in him and would rather sign someone like Bertans instead of Collins.  Its just weird to me and I just can't see it.  What does John have to do to get some love from some of these posters?

I love John... relaaaaaaaaax. Everything will be fiiiiiiiiiinnne.

[AHF]

18 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Plus he is a career 35% 3 point shooter.  I can see if he shot like Bembry his 1st 2 years and then suddenly took a jump in his 3rd year which was shortened.  I just don't understand why john doubters only see his perceived negatives and not his upside and improvements from year to year!  It is a curious phenomenon to me.  On the flip side, they watch guys like Okoro or Edwards play and see all upside.  I need Counseling understand this @AHF  Can you help?

Even better than 35%.  Per what I posted above, he is a career 36.9% 3pt shooter.  I think some of our posters see John's defensive limitations and don't see him as a long-term fit for that reason.  I remain a big JC booster and see his year over year improvement as a great sign for his present and future.

With rookies coming in the draft, it is typical to see the upside scenario for any of them.  All of them carry real risk this year and have spotty profiles.  There isn't anybody this year who profiles as a superstar ceiling / high floor guy ala Tim Duncan.  So in terms of debating our draft picks, a discussion will likely gravitate towards upside scenarios for these prospects.  

I wouldn't trade JC for the #1 overall pick so they are really two unrelated discussions for me.

[Dean Walker]

17 hours ago, terrell said:

Gallo over Hunter at SF? No thanks...Hes the backup PF if anything..

Fair enough. 

[Peoriabird]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

 I think some of our posters see John's defensive limitations and don't see him as a long-term fit for that reason. 

That certainly would be a reasonable explanation if their proposed replacement weren't Toppin and Gallo.  It will a moot point once John become an all star.

[parfait]

I think that the biggest data point against John being a vital piece moving forward is his lack of self-creation ability. But, if he advances his outside shooting ability a little bit more, which I think he can (I buy his shot), then I think he may have just enough self-creation juice, combined with his other elite skills, to reach All-Star status.

[nathan2331]

3 hours ago, parfait said:

I think that the biggest data point against John being a vital piece moving forward is his lack of self-creation ability. But, if he advances his outside shooting ability a little bit more, which I think he can (I buy his shot), then I think he may have just enough self-creation juice, combined with his other elite skills, to reach All-Star status.

Is it really a big deal that he doesn't create his own offense? We've got other players who can get him the ball, and he's efficient all around the court. Even if he never improves offensively what he's doing for us now is already unique and valuable. It's not like John can't dribble and drive like other bigs, so it gives other players on the roster more touches to do something else with the ball.

What I think is more important is that we get Huerter, Reddish and Hunter to take better advantage of John's (and now Capela's) movement moving forward. The threat they present around the basket creates easier scoring for everyone else. Trae's the only one right now who fully uses it to his advantage.