Let's Talk Draft Picks

[kg01]

47 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I just think there are fewer red flags with Wiseman and Toppin

There aren't.

That's why I wanna trade out.

[marco102]

Just now, kg01 said:

It's more about what we need vs what he can give.  He's not a defender, at all.  Hes also a low energy player, so he's not bringing the effort we need from a bench guy.  Thats what we get from Bembry and Graham.  So, although I don't like either player, I don't see Edwards coming in and being a better version of them from day 1.

At this point, in a bench role, Edwards only contribution would be jakkin up shots.  We don't need that.  And, if we did, we can find a gleague or euroleague guy.  Not a top 5 pick.

I suspect, in 4-5 years, Edwards will find a way to contribute on D based on his athleticism.  He'll learn how to maximize a 16 minute role, in 5-6 years.

I'm sure he'll get it, at some point.  I just think it won't come until 2 or 3 teams down the line.

He actually is a defender when engaged! I posted scoutig videos in the draft thread.  Young players all have lapses so I'm not going to Judge anyone like they are a finished product. 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

I'm not against Wiseman at all. Just having Capela pushes his need way down.  If you had to choose between a front cour player or a guard or wing, you should generally pick the guard or wing due to them having a bigger impact on winning in today's NBA.

Capela is a good player but not a great one.  He is very limited offensively so I don't get your point.  As far as wing players are concerned, we have drafted a Wing player in the 1st round the last 3 drafts with 2 being top 10 picks.  Not one 1st round pick has been spent on center and only 1 on a front court player period.  You can get fill in wing players in free agency at a reasonable price whereas front court players are more expensive so I'd rather go big especially when the wing players in this draft are so flawed and more importantly aren't good shooters.

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Capela is a good player but not a great one.  He is very limited offensively so I don't get your point.  As far as wing players are concerned, we have drafted a Wing player in the 1st round the last 3 drafts with 2 being top 10 picks.  Not one 1st round pick has been spent on center and only 1 on a front court player period.  You can get fill in wing players in free agency at a reasonable price whereas front court players are more expensive so I'd rather go big especially when the wing players in this draft are so flawed and more importantly aren't good shooters.

So is Wiseman! I don't believe Wiseman is going to come in and be as good as Capela on offense or defense day one.  Again, I'm not opposed to Wiseman at all, but if I had to choose between flawed bigs or flawed wings, I'm chosing the wings.  Just my personal philosophy for team buidling which in the grand scheme of things means nothing..lol

Edited April 12, 2020 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

So is Wiseman! I don't believe Wiseman is going to come in and be as good as Capela on offense or defense day one. 

Capela average 7.8 points per game in 4 years in the Euro league. Wiseman averaged 19 points per game shooting 76% from the field in his 1st 3 college games.  Do you truly think they have similar offensive ceiling?

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Capela average 7.8 points per game in 4 years in the Euro league. Wiseman averaged 19 points per game shooting 76% from the field in his 1st 3 college games.  Do you truly think they have similar offensive ceiling?

We are talking two different things. Do I think Wiseman has a higher offensive upside than Capela? Yes!  Do I think he'll have a bigger impact on offense and defense than Capela day one? No!

Do I think Edwards, Ball, Hailiburton or Hayes will have a bigger impact on offense and defense than Wiseman their first few years? Yes, I do. 

Wiseman is raw too.  I think he'll be a solid starting center, but it'll take him a while to reach his potential.  

Again, if the Hawks draft Wiseman. I'll be perfectly fine with him. He's 5th on my Hawks big board after the four listed above.

Edited April 12, 2020 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

We are talking two different things. Do I think Wiseman has a higher offensive upside than Capela? Yes!  Do I think he'll have a bigger impact on offense and defense than Capela day one? No!

Do I think Edwards, Ball, Hailiburton or Hayes will have a bigger impact on offense and defense than Wiseman their first few years? Yes, I do. 

Wiseman is raw too.  I think he'll be a solid starting center, but it'll take him a while to reach his potential.  

Again, if the Hawks draft Wiseman. I'll be perfectly fine with him. He's 5th on my Hawks big board after the four listed above.

Even if the above is true...Who cares?  Unless you think something magically is going to happen next year

[Peoriabird]

24 minutes ago, kg01 said:

There aren't.

That's why I wanna trade out.

I don't see them but I respect your opinion.

[marco102]

27 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Capela is a good player but not a great one.  He is very limited offensively so I don't get your point. 

Hence my response.  

You said Capela wasn't a good offensie player and I'm saying he's a better player than Wiseman coming in.  Some how you've moved this conversation to me not wanting Wiseman because of Capela.  That's not what I'm saying. I see a bigger need at the wing or backup guard spots than the front court spots.  If the Hawks didn't have Capela, I'd be screaming for Wiseman or any center with potential in this draft.

That's why I prefer the guards and wings over Wiseman.  I'm not against drafting Wiseman at all. I just prefer the wing players over him.

Edited April 12, 2020 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Hence my response.  

You said Capela wasn't a good offensie player and I'm saying he's a better player than Wiseman coming in.  Some how you've moved this conversation to me not wanting Wiseman because of Capela.  That's not what I'm saying. I see a bigger need at the wing or backup guard spots than the front court spots.  

That's why I prefer the guards and wings over Wiseman.  I'm not against drafting Wiseman at all. I just prefer the wing players over him.

So do you think that Edwards or Melo would come in and be better offensive players than Reddish or Huerter?

[JayBirdHawk]

27 minutes ago, marco102 said:

1. 

2. 

3. 

4. 

5. 

 

Thanks for this.

This is the most I've watched of these prospects.

1. I see what makes Edwards special as a scorer. Just needs to limit settling for long bad shots.

2. Ball is a special passer, can really push the pace after a rebound.

3. I see why some are saying Toppin is a JC clone.

4. Wiseman has some offensive post skills, easy turn around mid range jumper. 

5. Versatile shooter, not bad handling the ball, good passer.

They all have flaws that are fixable to some degree with maturation, whoever we pick will be coming off the bench in 2020/21.

[marco102]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

So do you think that Edwards or Melo would be better offensive players than Reddish or Huerter?

Nope, but wings have a bigger impact on winning than front court players.  Tell me the last front court player that was an MVP or Finals MVP.  I'll wait.  That's my point. 

My wants for this draft isn't for right now, but who has the overall potential to impact Hawks winning when they are trying to contend for a championship.  Wing players and guards are that in today's NBA. 

 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Nope, but wings have a bigger impact on winning than front court players.  Tell me the last front court player that was an MVP or Finals MVP.  I'll wait.  That's my point. 

My wants for this draft isn't for right now, but who has the overall potential to impact Hawks winning when they are trying to contend for a championship.  Wing players and guards are that in today's NBA. 

 

Wasn't Yannis MVP last year?

[marco102]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Wasn't Yannis MVP last year?

Ok we are playing this game.  Do you think James Wiseman or Obi Toppin will be as good as Giannis who is a wing (SF) that can play PF.  Tell me someone who is a true PF or C position only who did that.  Anyway, you see my point. Unless you're drafting a center to be some generational talent, I'm taking the wing or guard player over him.

You don't see it that way and that's fine. 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, marco102 said:

Ok we are playing this game.  Do you think James Wiseman or Obi Toppin will be as good as Giannis who is a wing (SF) that can play PF.  Tell me someone who is a true PF or C position only who did that.  Anyway, you see my point. Unless you're drafting a center to be some generational talent, I'm taking the wing or guard player over him.

You don't see it that way and that's fine. 

1st of all, I just answered your question...secondly, I can ask you the same question.  Is Edwards or Mello Lebron?

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

1st of all, I just answered your question...secondly, I can ask you the same question.  Is Edwards or Mello Lebron?

K, I took your response the wrong way. My bad, I was wrong for that. :). 

No I do not, but I see them being top 3 in their positions in their prime. Wiseman could be too.

Edited April 12, 2020 by marco102

[marco102]

11 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Thanks for this.

This is the most I've watched of these prospects.

1. I see what makes Edwards special as a scorer. Just needs to limit settling for long bad shots.

2. Ball is a special passer, can really push the pace after a rebound.

3. I see why some are saying Toppin is a JC clone.

4. Wiseman has some offensive post skills, easy turn around mid range jumper. 

5. Versatile shooter, not bad handling the ball, good passer.

They all have flaws that are fixable to some degree with maturation, whoever we pick will be coming off the bench in 2020/21.

Did you see Edwards defense when he was engaged? He has the potential to be a two way monster!   That's why I'm really high on him.  Some may think I'm crazy, but the kid is going to be really good. 

[Peoriabird]

8 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Did you see Edwards defense when he was engaged? He has the potential to be a two way monster!  

Is his ceiling higher than Reddish?  Is he a better defender than Reddish? Is he a better play maker than Reddish?  Is he a better shooter than Reddish?

[marco102]

10 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Is his ceiling higher than Reddish?  Is he a better defender than Reddish? Is he a better play maker than Reddish?  Is he a better shooter than Reddish?

No idea, but he could play with Reddish, Hunter, Trae, Collins, Heurter.  

I'm not pitting Edwards against Reddish. Edwards could play 1, 2, and 3 (due to his strength and length).  Reddish can play 2 and 3. Hunter 3 and 4.  Hueter needs to get stronger to play the three, but if he does it's possible. Kevin is a solid rebounder and passer.  Just needs to work on getting to the line and improving his defense. Hunter, Reddish, and Edwards is a lot of defense to have on the court with Trae and John.

I just want the deepest team possible.  That's how GS won their first championship.  They had a great guard and wing rotation.

Edited April 12, 2020 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

No idea, but he could play with Reddish, Hunter, Trae, Collins, Heurter.  

I'm not pitting Edwards against Reddish. Edwards could play 1, 2, and 3 (due to his strength and length).  Reddish can play 2 and 3. Hunter 3 and 4.  

I just want the deepest team possible.  That's how GS won their first championship.  They had a great guard and wing rotation.

LOL!  Golden State has multiple career 42% or better 3 point shooters on their team...We do hot have 1 over 39%.  We are not the Golden state warrior.  It would be somewhat insane to try and win like they did.