Coaching!

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

They won the Championship in Jackson's 2nd year so Jordan bought into something. And so did Kobe and Shaq

My point was Jordan resisted initially. Jordan was further along in his NBA career, so were Shaq and Kobe....seasoned vets by then.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

My point was Jordan resisted initially.

But he convinced them relatively quickly because he has the ability to get his message across.  And they listened to him... even Rodman.  You think Pierce could coach a Rodman? Heck he would not have been able coach Jordan or Pippen.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Too bad it didn't work.  They continue to play unsound basketball despite his advise

Didn't see ANY improvement from January? Don't you think we played better as the season went along? And I'm not saying we still didn't play undisciplined in some games.....but you are making it seem as if there was NOTHING of value being taught.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

But he convinced them relatively quickly because he has the ability to get his message across.  And they listened to him... even Rodman.  You think Pierce could coach a Rodman? Heck he would not have been able coach Jordan or Pippen.

Again....seasoned players. By the time Rodman got to Phil he was already a championship. Jordan was the one who told Rodman to not eff it up.

You keep trying to compare 2nd year players and coaches to VETS.  

[Peoriabird]

On 4/21/2020 at 5:19 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Didn't see ANY improvement from January?

 

I will have to do some work to see whether the turnovers , defensive rebounding or the defensive rank improved

[Peoriabird]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Again....seasoned players. By the time Rodman got to Phil he was already a championship. Jordan was the one who told Rodman to not eff it up.

You keep trying to compare 2nd year players and coaches to VETS.  

I didn't bring up Jordan and the triangle.  You did!

Plus its harder to coach vets than younger player especially if you are changing the system

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I didn't bring up Jordan and the triangle.  You did!

Plus its harder to coach vets than younger player especially if you are changing the system

Only in reference to players not buying into schemes......INITIALLY. 

Just to show that even the great Phil had some work to do to win over Jordan who was already an estsblishd star.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Only in reference to players not buying into schemes......INITIALLY. 

Just to show that even the great Phil had some work to do to win over Jordan who was already an estsblishd star.

But he did it in 1 year..LP still hasn't in year 2

[AHF]

Not remotely surprised the most important line of the article was somehow ignored.

Quote

With arguably less influence over their team’s game-to-game success than ever before, most coaches are only as good as the talent with which they have to work.

LP has had teams designed to be terrible to date.  Makes it tougher to evaluate him.  I think next year should reveal his merit or lack thereof.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Not remotely surprised the most important line of the article was somehow ignored.

LP has had teams designed to be terrible to date.  Makes it tougher to evaluate him.  I think next year should reveal his merit or lack thereof.

So Trae is terrible because he leads the league in turnovers?

[Peoriabird]

Or Huerter is terrible because he shoots 41% from the field?

[JayBirdHawk]

You have dug in that EVERYTHING that ails the Hawks begins and ends with Pierce., soooo.....I'll leave you to it, for now.

[AHF]

12 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So Trae is terrible because he leads the league in turnovers?

You are so funny to talk to sometimes.  The biggest non-sequitors to avoid the heart of the issue.  I've repeatedly said I think Trae is a burgeoning star with MVP potential.  I also said last year's team was built to be a lottery team and then the team turned out much worse than it was build to be because JC got suspended, KH got hurt, CR started off terribly and the vets proved to be mostly unusable garbage.  Of course I don't think Trae's high turnover numbers make him terrible.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

But he did it in 1 year..LP still hasn't in year 2

You do understand that Jackson had a fully formed functional team though, right? Not one trying to get the highest lottery pick possible or one that had no bench, right?  The year before Jackson joined the Bulls they lost in the EC finals with Doug Collins, the years before they won 50 games. Jordan has 4 years in the league and we knew he was THAT GOOD!.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 4/17/2020 at 10:41 AM, High5 said:

One of his staunchest critics has already crunched all of the numbers and concluded that he's slightly above average. It seems your thread has already achieved an honest evaluation. Nothing more to do. Great job. 

Whoa . . whoa . . whoaaaaaaa.

I missed this the other day.

Yes, if you compare him to coaches across the board, he's slightly above average.  But I think just about all NBA coaches are slightly above average at worst.

 

Look at the NBA coaching fraternity like an AP ( Advanced Placement ) class in high school.  The people in that class are all elite level students, and are expected to do well.  "Average" in their world is a B+.  If you make a C+ or a B- in an AP class, you're behind your peers.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You do understand that Jackson had a fully formed functional team though, right? Not one trying to get the highest lottery pick possible or one that had no bench, right?  The year before Jackson joined the Bulls they lost in the EC finals with Doug Collins, the years before they won 50 games. Jordan has 4 years in the league and we knew he was THAT GOOD!.

 

 

Yeah that's unfair.

Jackson was handed a team on a silver platter, with a guy who was at least top 3 in the league at that point in his career.

[Peoriabird]

43 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Yeah that's unfair.

Jackson was handed a team on a silver platter, with a guy who was at least top 3 in the league at that point in his career.

She brought up Michael and Jackson not me

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

She brought up Michael and Jackson not me

CONTEXT

[Peoriabird]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

You are so funny to talk to sometimes.  The biggest non-sequitors to avoid the heart of the issue.  I've repeatedly said I think Trae is a burgeoning star with MVP potential.  I also said last year's team was built to be a lottery team and then the team turned out much worse than it was build to be because JC got suspended, KH got hurt, CR started off terribly and the vets proved to be mostly unusable garbage.  Of course I don't think Trae's high turnover numbers make him terrible.

 

Much of the team's lack of success is because of poor play by the team's good player like Trae.  We talked about the turnover, bad passes, poor reads, lack understanding and effort on defense. These problems are unrelated to the rest of the players on the team and should have been corrected by his coaches

[Peoriabird]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Didn't see ANY improvement from January? Don't you think we played better as the season went along? And I'm not saying we still didn't play undisciplined in some games.....but you are making it seem as if there was NOTHING of value being taught.

 

Just looked at the stats. 

Trae was better with his turnover after the all star break but not much 4.9 TPG prior to the ASB 4.6 after.  Although the team was significantly better with turnovers

Assist ticked up also 9.2-10.1.  Defensive numbers got worse Spg .7 vs 1.2 rpg 3.5 vs 4.4

Shooting was definitely worse Sh-Eff 53 pre 48 post

Huerter's shooting was definitely worse post all-star break 52/49 but his a/t was amazing post all star break.  Steals/rebounding were better also.

John's shooting took off in the second half.  Steals/scoring increased but so did his minutes.  Everything else was consistent across the board.

The rookies were better at everything post all star break.  Hunter became a very good rebounder and Cam sh-eff spiked.

Although there was some individual improvement,  The team's defense and rebounding appear to still be a problem post All star break.

https://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/atl/split/141

https://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/atl/split/140