Let's Talk Trade Ideas!

[Vol4ever]

20 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Ideas to bolster team with depth via trades from the cap conscience teams above and mid tier UFAs.

Kings - trade for Cory Joseph and 2 2nds into capspace ala the Dedmon trade

Knicks - trade for Frank N for 2 2nds

Nets - trade for Prince and Jarrett Allen (C of the future) for Dedmon, Bembry and OKC 2022 1st.

Nuggets - they have a lot of salary tied up and have several FAs to resign which would send then into LT territory: Milsap, Grant, Craig, Plumlee (Grant at PF, Craig at wing for defense)

Magic - Evan Fournier for OKC 2022 1st (top 20 protected) - we need a 'get bucket' guy off the bench)

Houston - my initial thought was Eric Gordon before I realized they resigned him to another 3 years, yikes. Wonder if we can get Robert Covington.

Sixers - trade for Josh Richardson 

Utah - sign Jordan Clarkson as a bucket getter off the bench.

Indy - trade for Doug McD.

 

 

 

 

I would not trade Huerter in any package unless we are getting a star.  He is going to be a very good 6th man.  

[kg01]

17 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

I would not trade Huerter in any package unless we are getting a star.  He is going to be a very good 6th man.  

What if it's for a legit starter?  I like Heurter too but I don't view him as untouchable.

[AHF]

20 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Here is the point. Two great scorers means the team needs those two players to score. Its pretty obvious the Cavs did not need JR to score. They needed LeBron and Kyrie to get buckets and JR could rest almost the whole game on offense.

These are two back courts that helped carry their teams to the promised land with scoring. In other words without both of them scoring, in all likelihood they would not have made it.

Billups and RIP

Curry and Thompson

 

Billups and RIP averaged 42.4 points in the finals.  JR and Kyrie averaged 37.7 points.  

Klay averaged just over 15 points per game in his first finals and he only averaged 16 and 16.4 the other two so not sure he truly meets your criteria as he has never been Mr. Explosive come Finals time.

The larger point that it is tough to find any championship backcourt (or frontcourt) that didn't have someone who could play D.

[Buzzard]

22 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Kyrie and JR 2016 ..

I still don’t see how this answer is wrong.

Because JR is not in the same category as McColum, Beal, or Booker. Its a great scoring combo that I mention. Having one great scorer is not a great scoring combo. You have to be able to see the difference between:

Lillard, McCollum

Wall, Beal

Billups, RIP

Curry, Thompson

and

Irving, JR

[Gray Mule]

We haven't watched him as a Hawk.  I fully expect him back on our roster and ready to play if and when next season ever arrives.  No one even bothers to mention him, yet we're told our GM really likes him.

Skal Labissiere is listed as a 23 year old, 6'10" PF out of Kentucky.  

Some may say that he's just a warm body for pre season or that he's here just to add onto a deal to make it go.  I know nothing except his film, which is impressive.  He's the right age and the right size.

What say you?  Does he stay or does he go?  Is he really any good?  Why does our GM like him?

Could he be a young stud that will thrive with Trae Young?  

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

What if it's for a legit starter?  I like Heurter too but I don't view him as untouchable.

Agree.  I think sturt's proposal of essentially Huert for Dipo was very reasonable to think about.  I like Huert a lot but he isn't the guy who you hold onto if you can get "that piece."  Lots of very good (including All-Star level) guys have been traded on the path to a team winning a ring.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Gray Mule said:

We haven't watched him as a Hawk.  I fully expect him back on our roster and ready to play if and when next season ever arrives.  No one even bothers to mention him, yet we're told our GM really likes him.

Skal Labissiere is listed as a 23 year old, 6'10" PF out of Kentucky.  

Some may say that he's just a warm body for pre season or that he's here just to add onto a deal to make it go.  I know nothing except his film, which is impressive.  He's the right age and the right size.

What say you?  Does he stay or does he go?  Is he really any good?  Why does our GM like him?

Could he be a young stud that will thrive with Trae Young?  

Said before that I think it could go either way with him and may depend on who else we could find to fill that roster spot.  He has the length and potential to end up really rewarding a team that sticks with him but has enough limitations (including sheer mass) and injury risk that he isn't a no brainer.  When he is healthy, he is a productive big off the bench to date in his career.  The "when healthy" part has been too often a challenge.  I'll be happy to see what he does in an Atlanta uniform if he is back.

[Buzzard]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

Billups and RIP averaged 42.4 points in the finals.  JR and Kyrie averaged 37.7 points.  

Klay averaged just over 15 points per game in his first finals and he only averaged 16 and 16.4 the other two so not sure he truly meets your criteria as he has never been Mr. Explosive come Finals time.

The larger point that it is tough to find any championship backcourt (or frontcourt) that didn't have someone who could play D.

You can cite finals and that is a great view; but my larger point was getting there. Without Klay's scoring and threat to score they would have been hard pressed to get there pre Durant.

That 42 points that you cite for Billups and RIP was close to 50% of their team scoring average,

Edited May 4, 2020 by Buzzard

[JayBirdHawk]

24 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

I would not trade Huerter in any package unless we are getting a star.  He is going to be a very good 6th man.  

I did not suggest trading Huerter for anyone on that list.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

You can cite finals and that is a great view; but my larger point was getting there. Without Klay's scoring and threat to score they would have been hard pressed to get there pre Durant.

That 42 points that you cite for Billups and RIP was close to 50% of their team scoring average,

Billups and RIP were options #1 and #2 for those teams.  Klay has been largely a nice option #3 with KD and Curry and has always been a bigger part of the offense in the regular season than in the finals when they won a ring.  JR was option #4 for sure.  Not as big a part of the offense but an important piece to give spacing on the floor and with the ability to go off when he got hot.

[Buzzard]

36 minutes ago, AHF said:

Billups and RIP were options #1 and #2 for those teams.  Klay has been largely a nice option #3 with KD and Curry and has always been a bigger part of the offense in the regular season than in the finals when they won a ring.  JR was option #4 for sure.  Not as big a part of the offense but an important piece to give spacing on the floor and with the ability to go off when he got hot.

But they won it all before KD in 2014/15 and then went to the finals in 2015/16. Klay was not just the #2, its pretty safe to say they did not have a real #3 on those teams.

2014/15 Playoffs: Klay averaged 18.6 PTS, Curry averaged 28.3, 3rd Wheel Draymond averaged 13.7

2015/16 Playoffs: Klay averaged 24.3 PTS, Curry averaged 25.1, 3rd Wheel Draymond averaged 15.4

I really don't get your point here unless its to discredit Klay's part in back to back finals runs and one championship. We have been waiting multiple decades for that. Please let us have what you choose to not even mention as relevant because Durant decided to show up in 2016/17.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Buzzard

[Spud2nique]

42 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Because JR is not in the same category as McColum, Beal, or Booker. Its a great scoring combo that I mention. Having one great scorer is not a great scoring combo. You have to be able to see the difference between:

Lillard, McCollum

Wall, Beal

Billups, RIP

Curry, Thompson

and

Irving, JR

We aren’t speaking the same language. I definitely understand the difference, I think .

Here is what I thought you were asking me: Give me an example of a backcourt (meaning a PG and a SG, I don’t care about Lebron he’s irrelevant in this debate it’s Kyrie and JR) that can score (meaning they are an offensive backcourt, applies to both Kyrie and JR, that don’t play defense well, again applies to both and that have won a championship, applies to both.

So I wasn’t looking for any backcourt player who could D up, immediately eliminates the Warriors (Klay), the Lakers (Kobe), the Pistons (Rip) and obviously all the Bulls teams with Michael.

[Buzzard]

15 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

We aren’t speaking the same language. I definitely understand the difference, I think .

Here is what I thought you were asking me: Give me an example of a backcourt (meaning a PG and a SG, I don’t care about Lebron he’s irrelevant in this debate it’s Kyrie and JR) that can score (meaning they are an offensive backcourt, applies to both Kyrie and JR, that don’t play defense well, again applies to both and that have won a championship, applies to both.

So I wasn’t looking for any backcourt player who could D up, immediately eliminates the Warriors (Klay), the Lakers (Kobe), the Pistons (Rip) and obviously all the Bulls teams with Michael.

I was pointing out great back court duos. JR is not a part of great. I understand the misunderstanding but I still stand by my point.

I think this has been Portland's problem since their great back court became a reality. They have a lot of money tied up in two good back court scorers who cannot defend. That is a real problem in my opinion.

The Cavs had peanuts tied up in JR when compared to a max contract.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Buzzard

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

I was pointing out great back court duos. JR is not a part of great. I understand the misunderstanding but I still stand by my point.

I think this has been Portland's problem since their great back court became a reality; plus finding a real 3rd option. They have a lot of money tied up in two good back court scorers who cannot defend. That is a real problem in my opinion.

The Cavs had peanuts tied up in JR when compared to a max contract.

Yes we weren’t in the same page. I was just looking for non defensive backcourts that have won titles. In no, way, shape or form do I consider JR Smith a great SG or a player for that matter. I think he was a great bench player in Denver and brought what the Cavs needed from him to be lucky enough to ride the Lebron ring . 
 

As far as your criteria of two “great” offensive backcourts that never player defense and won a ring. I don’t think that has happened BUT, and a huge BUT (not butt) here, THE GAME HAS CHANGED. So I can see it happening very soon. With the teams scoring high and the game taking off with more offense including three pointers that should be 4 pointers, there might be a champion soon who plays like the 1991 run TMC or the Suns 2004 with Nash/Amare/Marion/JJ. (Granted Marion was a good defender, also Raja Bell ).

That is why I always circle ️ back to Cam ultimately being our starting SG, that kid is a two way stud just waiting to burst into the spotlight.

[Buzzard]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

Yes we weren’t in the same page. I was just looking for non defensive backcourts that have won titles. In no, way, shape or form do I consider JR Smith a great SG or a player for that matter. I think he was a great bench player in Denver and brought what the Cavs needed from him to be lucky enough to ride the Lebron ring . 
 

As far as your criteria of two “great” offensive backcourts that never player defense and won a ring. I don’t think that has happened BUT, and a huge BUT (not butt) here, THE GAME HAS CHANGED. So I can see it happening very soon. With the teams scoring high and the game taking off with more offense including three pointers that should be 4 pointers, there might be a champion soon who plays like the 1991 run TMC or the Suns 2004 with Nash/Amare/Marion/JJ. (Granted Marion was a good defender, also Raja Bell ).

That is why I always circle ️ back to Cam ultimately being our starting SG, that kid is a two way stud just waiting to burst into the spotlight.

I will never say never Spud; but I do think Portland is the current poster child for that model not working.

[Vol4ever]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

What if it's for a legit starter?  I like Heurter too but I don't view him as untouchable.

Well that could make a difference according to who it is

[AHF]

36 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

But they won it all before KD in 2014/15 and then went to the finals in 2015/16. Klay was not just the #2, its pretty safe to say they did not have a real #3 on those teams.

2014/15 Playoffs: Klay averaged 18.6 PTS, Curry averaged 28.3, 3rd Wheel Draymond averaged 13.7

2015/16 Playoffs: Klay averaged 24.3 PTS, Curry averaged 25.1, 3rd Wheel Draymond averaged 15.4

I really don't get your point here unless its to discredit Klay's part in back to back finals runs and one championship. We have been waiting multiple decades for that. Please let us have what you choose to not even mention as relevant because Durant decided to show up in 2016/17.

I am undercutting the idea that Klay was a huge part of the offense in the finals.  

When they won their first ring:

Curry averaged 26 ppg against the Cavs

Iggy averaged 16.3 ppg

Klay averaged 15.6 ppg

Dray averaged 13.0 ppg

 

I don't think Klay's role is on par with RIP.  He does slightly better at 18.6 points for the total playoffs but the point is the further you get in the season, the smaller his role gets.  He does more in the regular season than the playoffs.  He does more in the early rounds of the playoffs than in the finals.  They have 3 rings and his career high in the finals is like 16.4 ppg.

I don't think he plays the role I think of as a true #2.  For example, in the 2014-15 playoffs he averaged a total of 9.7 FG+assists per game.    Curry averaged 15.9 that year.  RIP averaged ~12.5 which is more similar to someone like McCollum who does more on offense than Klay does.

I'm not arguing with your basic point about the importance of defense or how well these pairings worked.  Just saying I see this one as tilted significantly more towards Curry on offense in a way that is more similar to Irving / JR Smith than RIP/Billups.  I think RIP/Billups makes the stronger point of comparison here.

Klay's value is perhaps more tilted towards defense when it comes time to the finals.

[Buzzard]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

I am undercutting the idea that Klay was a huge part of the offense in the finals.  

When they won their first ring:

Curry averaged 26 ppg against the Cavs

Iggy averaged 16.3 ppg

Klay averaged 15.6 ppg

Dray averaged 13.0 ppg

 

I don't think Klay's role is on par with RIP.  He does slightly better at 18.6 points for the total playoffs but the point is the further you get in the season, the smaller his role gets.  He does more in the regular season than the playoffs.  He does more in the early rounds of the playoffs than in the finals.

I don't think he plays the role I think of as a true #2.  For example, in the 2014-15 playoffs he averaged a total of 9.7 FG+assists per game.    Curry averaged 15.9 that year.  RIP averaged ~12.5 which is more similar to someone like McCollum who does more on offense than Klay does.

I'm not arguing with your basic point about the importance of defense or how well these pairings worked.  Just saying I see this one as tilted significantly more towards Curry on offense in a way that is more similar to Irving / JR Smith than RIP/Billups.  I think RIP/Billups makes the stronger point of comparison here.

You keep skipping the playoff averages though. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. No Klay scoring 18 and 23 a game respectively, not as much of a chance at a ring either season before Durant.

Perfect example: OKC took them 7 games in 2015/16.

Curry averaged 27.9, Klay averaged 24.7, 3rd leading scorer was Draymond at a hefty 11.3. If Klay is only average in that series, Durant might have won his first ring and stayed put.

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Buzzard

[thecampster]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Said before that I think it could go either way with him and may depend on who else we could find to fill that roster spot.  He has the length and potential to end up really rewarding a team that sticks with him but has enough limitations (including sheer mass) and injury risk that he isn't a no brainer.  When he is healthy, he is a productive big off the bench to date in his career.  The "when healthy" part has been too often a challenge.  I'll be happy to see what he does in an Atlanta uniform if he is back.

Way to commit buddy.

 

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Way to commit buddy.

 

He's just not a player good enough to commit to when we could be in the absolute driver's seat in being able to stock the roster this summer with reduced cap space.  If we can get better role players, there may not be space for him but you could do worse in filling out your bench.  If this was last offseason, I would put my stake firmly down that he would be coming back.  This one might be quite different.  I feel like this one is a coin flip and very dependent on what TS does with other FAs.