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Let's Talk Trade Ideas!


JayBirdHawk

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1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Unlikely and his new contract is about to kick in next season

I thought it started this season? He's making $10 mil this season then $11mil the next 2, final year guaranteed for $6 mil.

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3 hours ago, kg01 said:

It's an upgrade but who are we replacing Deadman's leadership with?

I like ur Goga Bit kid in Indy. I’m sorry I may have made fun of you when he was ur boy. I mean I saw his tape then and thought he had skill but watching him play against dudes this year, he’s got a lil Jokic in him. Jokic lite. Not bad.

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4 hours ago, terrell said:

I was thinking you were talking about Horford and Smith for a min there..Heck, we might as well bring Marvin and Chills back. lol(I think Supes already mentioned Marvin)

Smith .... ugh ... I never liked Smith from the beginning ... I can't think of a worse player to bring in here... i just threw up a little in my mouth

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That Horford trade is interesting, but if you're looking to bolster the bench, why not overbid for Jerami Grant in free agency and keep Dedmon. My problem with Horford is that while he's a fit, he's only going to get worse from here on that hideous contract. While we do need to spend the money on somebody, why not bring in guys whose value should at least appreciate.

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41 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

That Horford trade is interesting, but if you're looking to bolster the bench, why not overbid for Jerami Grant in free agency and keep Dedmon. My problem with Horford is that while he's a fit, he's only going to get worse from here on that hideous contract. While we do need to spend the money on somebody, why not bring in guys whose value should at least appreciate.

My targets are Grant and Dunn and another shooter ... this is all after Brandon Ingram turns us down

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6 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

That Horford trade is interesting, but if you're looking to bolster the bench, why not overbid for Jerami Grant in free agency and keep Dedmon. My problem with Horford is that while he's a fit, he's only going to get worse from here on that hideous contract. While we do need to spend the money on somebody, why not bring in guys whose value should at least appreciate.

A trash rotation player who doesn't fit our PDS style or a PDS center who's a 5-7 WAR player and is extremely impactful and effective even if it's clear, he's not a 30mpg type anymore. This is a no brainer to me but you know, who's paying attention to impact right. 

Al would only be our most impactful player by a mile two years ago and our 2nd most impactful player last year by a mile in a down year in a system that used him wrong. I am trying to understand the logic of this site sometimes. I find it hard to see it at times. 

I literally scust everytime I heard Grant's name brought up. If you want an overpaid impact PF, Orlando has Aminu who is an ideal system fit for us and was in the top 20 of all players plus-minus in 2018-19 before stupidly going to Orlando which is a SHIT fit for a PnR PDS guy in FA because of the money. 

I am never going to be negative on Dedmon because he's a perfect system fit but he's not good at Basketball. He's not even average. He's below average and all of his benefits is his brain, feel for the game, ability to play within our system and versatility which isn't much at this stage of his career but he's still a great system fit so it's not awful nonetheless. 

Edited by NBASupes
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49 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I literally scust everytime I heard Grant's name brought up. If you want an overpaid impact PF, Orlando has Aminu

Grant is not Aminu though. I think he’s more effective in what he does. I don’t hate the chief either I just wouldn’t want him in the Hawks. Grant I’d want badly he fits us nicely.

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1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Grant is not Aminu though. I think he’s more effective in what he does. I don’t hate the chief either I just wouldn’t want him in the Hawks. Grant I’d want badly he fits us nicely.

Lol! This is the shit I am talking about on this site about understanding what we do and saying the silliest shit! 

Grant offensively is BAD with the basketball. Poor decision maker. Can't dribble. Its obvious why he worked well in a low ball movement system like OKC with Westbrook dominating the rock and struggled badly with Denver and their motion offense where every player is responsible of being capable of doing shit positive with the rock and you want him to come here when he already failed badly at the role. This shit is why we got rid of Bazemore as soon as we could and

Portland who is extremely similar to us traded him for Ariza who wasn't even playing for Sacramento at all. The only positives for Grant is rim running but we seen Damian Jones and we know that shit ain't that valuable. 

Aminu on the other hand is a good handler of the rock. Good quick decision maker, good open 3pt shooter and does well with touches which is key as we are a big man touches heavy system. You must be good at being decisive. While giving you similar levels of defense as both are switch defenders who offer versatility. 

Grant is literally one of the worst fits and I wouldn't take him for free for us. That's not saying he doesn't have value for others but for us, he's Bazemore, Bembry, Graham and those guys are napalm for our current style of play and only need to be there as 13th and 14th man at BEST. I would rather rookies take their spot. 

OKC was smart to move on when they moved from Westbrook. Genius.

Edited by NBASupes
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https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2019/09/18/2020-orlando-magic-player-outlook-al-farouq-aminu/2/

Grant

https://thunderousintentions.com/2018/05/12/jerami-grant-season-review-transforming-contributor/

 

Both are average players who are below average offensive players who are average on offense at their peak who are good defenders. The difference is one fits our system offensively and the other clearly doesn't. I'll take the one who fits for a thousand, Alex 

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3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

A trash rotation player who doesn't fit our PDS style or a PDS center who's a 5-7 WAR player and is extremely impactful and effective even if it's clear, he's not a 30mpg type anymore. This is a no brainer to me but you know, who's paying attention to impact right. 

Al would only be our most impactful player by a mile two years ago and our 2nd most impactful player last year by a mile in a down year in a system that used him wrong. I am trying to understand the logic of this site sometimes. I find it hard to see it at times. 

I literally scust everytime I heard Grant's name brought up. If you want an overpaid impact PF, Orlando has Aminu who is an ideal system fit for us and was in the top 20 of all players plus-minus in 2018-19 before stupidly going to Orlando which is a SHIT fit for a PnR PDS guy in FA because of the money. 

I am never going to be negative on Dedmon because he's a perfect system fit but he's not good at Basketball. He's not even average. He's below average and all of his benefits is his brain, feel for the game, ability to play within our system and versatility which isn't much at this stage of his career but he's still a great system fit so it's not awful nonetheless. 

Grant ain't a trash rotation player. You're literally the only person with that take. You can dispute his value versus Horford on this team, but you ain't gonna convince me Grant would be a trainwreck on this team. Grant has been fine in Denver, I don't know why you're talking about him like he's struggled this season. It wasn't an immediate fit with Denver, but Grant has improved especially when he's playing next to Jokic.

You complain he doesn't fit our system but I'd say he's easily an improvement on what we've had backing up Collins. Carter was giving us nothing this past season, Hunter was not that great, and Parker earlier in the season was conceding on defense whatever scoring he was providing. Grant isn't the greatest putting the ball in his hands, but he's not limited like he used to be either.

I'm happy to be educated about what our bigs need to be able to do that Grant can't, because I don't see it. I understand why Horford would be a better fit however, at the end of the day a backup C who at this stage cannot play significant minutes at PF is not worth the contract Horford has. Not even close. Collins already has certain matchup problems. If situation calls for playing Collins extended minutes at C, (say against Giannis or Isaac) you can't use Horford or Capela at all. Terrible use of resources.

 

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3 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

Grant ain't a trash rotation player. You're literally the only person with that take. You can dispute his value versus Horford on this team, but you ain't gonna convince me Grant would be a trainwreck on this team. Grant has been fine in Denver, I don't know why you're talking about him like he's struggled this season. It wasn't an immediate fit with Denver, but Grant has improved especially when he's playing next to Jokic.

You complain he doesn't fit our system but I'd say he's easily an improvement on what we've had backing up Collins. Carter was giving us nothing this past season, Hunter was not that great, and Parker earlier in the season was conceding on defense whatever scoring he was providing. Grant isn't the greatest putting the ball in his hands, but he's not limited like he used to be either.

I'm happy to be educated about what our bigs need to be able to do that Grant can't, because I don't see it. I understand why Horford would be a better fit however, at the end of the day a backup C who at this stage cannot play significant minutes at PF is not worth the contract Horford has. Not even close. Collins already has certain matchup problems. If situation calls for playing Collins extended minutes at C, (say against Giannis or Isaac) you can't use Horford or Capela at all. Terrible use of resources.

 

For our offensive system, he would be awful with shades of good games in specs. Grant is like Len with high touches but without the skill that Len has as a treat. He's a hot pocket guy with touches like Len but the ability to make a lead play is min. With our style of play, decision making matters too much in perspective.

We just don't do it enough as the personnel is Jones, Parker, Len, and while I won't put Collins in that category due to being better than these guys at it, he's not exactly Dedmon(average) either at it. Bruno has potential in time but is raw right now at it.

Horford value goes without saying. He's still a pretty good starting center like Millsap is still a pretty good starting PF at an older age. Horford mins needs to be slower like Sap was in Denver. 

Let's compare him to an ability equal like Aminu or Bjelica which are all best as a backup 4 as Millsap and Horford are just a MUCH higher tier. 

Aminu is a perfect system fit offensively as a backup. He plays a PDS style of play and his passing leads with +PPP play. 

Bjelica is even better but his defense is much worse than either player. 

Is Grant an upgrade over Parker? Offensively, Parker had his advantages over Grant but he didn't fit either for the obvious. Both are terrible with touches in terms of decision making. Jabari is just miles better offensively but he's a blackhole so...

Year 1 VC was an massive upgrade over Grant system fit wise. Year 1 VC was a quality backup 4 till he burned out. Year 2 VC was the worst player in the NBA in my eyes. I disagree on Hunter, he's much better with the ball in his hands than any of these guys by a countrymile, but he's exclusively used as our SF so he shouldn't be in the convo. I disagree with that not limited statement, he's like Jabari in terms of being poor decision making wise with touches. 

Defensively, Grant is a massive upgrade over Jabari, Vince, and Bjelica. I would say he's better than Aminu too due to his shot blocking and athleticism in my opinion.

Horford is worth it for us simply due to the obvious. The ability to get an elite offensive fit who is still impactful and plays 24-26 mpg which would massively improve our supporting cast and personnel. Considering Capela potential health concerns and the fact that we don't want to run him into the ground, it makes sense. 

Horford makes everyone around him better and their jobs easier. Adding a guy like that to a young team has massive advantages especially to our W/L column. The question on Al is the obvious. The contract. 90 million dollars with 70 guaranteed. That's the question. Knowing Travis logic, he's not a fan of these contracts for older players but will he make an exception for an impact player to makes the kids better is the question. Considering Al out is Trae and Kevin contract ends year. 

I don't like the idea of signing someone to be a defensive player when those guys can be had for nothing at the 4. If you want to sign Grant, you need to know how to use him and make sure you have the system to complement him. A good system for him in Toronto, Orlando, Miami who would be a perfect fit used like Jones Jr. Atlanta asks too much of their 4s and 5s decision making wise. He's not a fit offensively. You can make a case for defense but is that worth it? You can get guys like Skal and Brocher to do that for the min.

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16 hours ago, NBASupes said:

A trash rotation player who doesn't fit our PDS style or a PDS center who's a 5-7 WAR player and is extremely impactful and effective even if it's clear, he's not a 30mpg type anymore. This is a no brainer to me but you know, who's paying attention to impact right. 

Al would only be our most impactful player by a mile two years ago and our 2nd most impactful player last year by a mile in a down year in a system that used him wrong. I am trying to understand the logic of this site sometimes. I find it hard to see it at times. 

I literally scust everytime I heard Grant's name brought up. If you want an overpaid impact PF, Orlando has Aminu who is an ideal system fit for us and was in the top 20 of all players plus-minus in 2018-19 before stupidly going to Orlando which is a SHIT fit for a PnR PDS guy in FA because of the money. 

I am never going to be negative on Dedmon because he's a perfect system fit but he's not good at Basketball. He's not even average. He's below average and all of his benefits is his brain, feel for the game, ability to play within our system and versatility which isn't much at this stage of his career but he's still a great system fit so it's not awful nonetheless. 

Sounds great for a 3RD center..But if Capela goes for a few games,,, Ughhhh..

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2 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

Thanks for breaking down why you don't see Grant as a fit in Atlanta. I still don't agree with you though. The decision making responsibility our bigs have in this offense is not difficult. You just have to read the defenders, hand the ball off or pass to a cutter, and when it's not open just reset the play. You need to be able to get yourself open to receive a pass, whether that's rolling to the basket or moving towards the arc. It's not that complicated. Grant is competent enough to do what we need him to do on offense as a bench player. Maybe I haven't seen enough of his games to see his flaws, but he's improved in his time in Denver since initially struggling to play within their offense.

Defensively though, Grant is much more valuable than any of those other 4s mentioned and you know it. Grant is not lock down, but he's way more versatile than guys like Skal and Boucher. And much better than we've had with Vince and Parker.

I don't dispute Horford would be more valuable for the Hawks, I only question the cost. I don't think it makes any sense to be spending 30+ million on a backup who is not going to get any better. That's just a reckless use of cap space even if we have it in abundance. If we're convinced we can't land a prime FA, I'd still rather spend that money on multiple positions.

I was the one that mentioned Boucher..lol

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16 hours ago, NBASupes said:

A trash rotation player who doesn't fit our PDS style or a PDS center who's a 5-7 WAR player and is extremely impactful and effective even if it's clear, he's not a 30mpg type anymore. This is a no brainer to me but you know, who's paying attention to impact right. 

Al would only be our most impactful player by a mile two years ago and our 2nd most impactful player last year by a mile in a down year in a system that used him wrong. I am trying to understand the logic of this site sometimes. I find it hard to see it at times. 

I literally scust everytime I heard Grant's name brought up. If you want an overpaid impact PF, Orlando has Aminu who is an ideal system fit for us and was in the top 20 of all players plus-minus in 2018-19 before stupidly going to Orlando which is a SHIT fit for a PnR PDS guy in FA because of the money. 

I am never going to be negative on Dedmon because he's a perfect system fit but he's not good at Basketball. He's not even average. He's below average and all of his benefits is his brain, feel for the game, ability to play within our system and versatility which isn't much at this stage of his career but he's still a great system fit so it's not awful nonetheless. 

Toppin > Grant..Am I right Supes?  lol

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Hawks get: Wendell Carter + 44th pick (2020 draft)

 

Bulls get: Hawks 2020 1st (picks outside of 1-3) + Bruno Fernando

 

Bulls have to find a new coach. They’re 3 main pieces are Lavine, Lauri and Wendell. Something tells me they might need a mini tear down and rebuild again. I doubt they do this but then again, they are the Bulls.

 

I DO NOT DO THIS TRADE IF THE HAWKS GET PICKS 1-3. That’s just me.


This for you Jambrad. 😉 😘 

Edited by Spud2nique
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