Let's Talk Trade Ideas!

[REHawksFan]

Can't afford to NOT pay him and lose him.  I'm not opposed to a trade entirely, but I don't think they'd get anyone as good as JC so why not just pay him?  They may end up with him on a bad contract though.  

 

You'd have to think TS knows he will get the max or close to it.  Therefore, I have to believe they already know whether they're going to match or not.  If they know they are NOT going to match that, then they need to aggressively look to trade for someone productive.  If they know they are going to match, then listen just in case someone offers you a king's ransom but other wise just play it out and match.  

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

You pay him.  Easy call for me.

(Note that this does not say max offer.  "Significant" implies something less than max.)

A lot of people seem to miss this^^^.  Paying him doesn't necessarily mean paying him a max.

Hawks offered 4yrs/$90, his 5 year max from the Hawks would be 5yrs/$160ish (with 8% yearly raises), a RFA offer from another team is limited to 4yr/$118ish (depending on cap of course with 5% raises).  

What I haven't seen is what Collins actually ask was.  We know he said he thinks his play deserved the max from the earlier articles, but what was the actual ask once at the negotiation table and presented with the 4/$90.  Did the Hawks start there or did they start lower and that's where they topped out or was it a one time take it or leave it offer. Or Collins was Max deal or hit RFAcy? 

I would love to be a fly on the wall.

 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

11 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Can't afford to NOT pay him and lose him.  I'm not opposed to a trade entirely, but I don't think they'd get anyone as good as JC so why not just pay him?  They may end up with him on a bad contract though.  

 

You'd have to think TS knows he will get the max or close to it.  Therefore, I have to believe they already know whether they're going to match or not.  If they know they are NOT going to match that, then they need to aggressively look to trade for someone productive.  If they know they are going to match, then listen just in case someone offers you a king's ransom but other wise just play it out and match.  

If we can just have at least ONE of our young wings to develop into a consistent starter, the pain of John's max contract would hurt much less. Having that much money tied up in Collins and not having another 20 ppg scorer on the roster would make his contract look terrible. Dre is on the verge of this, so fingers crossed. Trae/Collins/consistent Dre/Capela is enough to make some noise in the playoffs.

Partly, I think this is why Schlenk did not max out Collins cause he knows Trae and Collins isn't enough to be a consistent winner.

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

If we can just have at least ONE of our young wings to develop into a consistent starter, the pain of John's max contract would hurt much less. Having that much money tied up in Collins and not having another 20 ppg scorer on the roster would make his contract look terrible. Dre is on the verge of this, so fingers crossed. Trae/Collins/consistent Dre/Capela is enough to make some noise in the playoffs.

Partly, I think this is why Schlenk did not max out Collins cause he knows Trae and Collins isn't enough to be a consistent winner.

Hunter was on his way - Injuries suck!

The only reason to sign Collins early was if you signed him on a good deal like what they offered.  

If you know there is a chance you'll have to match a RFA 4 year max from another team or offer one yourself, it's prudent to wait. His $12 million dollar cap hold (which would put us right at the cap) in the offseason is valuable to keep any free agent money available before his new deal will kick in.  It makes trades easier as well if you are under the cap vs having to count his new deal into your cap. 

[REHawksFan]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The only reason to sign Collins early was if you signed him on a good deal like what they offered.  

This is why I thought offering him a big deal last offseason was the wrong strategy.  Get him on a team friendly deal or wait and see what the market bares.  Or trade him if you get a great offer OR decide you aren't matching.  

 

20 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

If we can just have at least ONE of our young wings to develop into a consistent starter, the pain of John's max contract would hurt much less. Having that much money tied up in Collins and not having another 20 ppg scorer on the roster would make his contract look terrible. Dre is on the verge of this, so fingers crossed. Trae/Collins/consistent Dre/Capela is enough to make some noise in the playoffs.

Partly, I think this is why Schlenk did not max out Collins cause he knows Trae and Collins isn't enough to be a consistent winner.

I really think Hunter is that dude.  The way he was playing early in the season - if he can regain that and continue to improve going forward - would make him a legit No. 2 man.  I'd take my chances with he and Trae as a top 2 and then JC as the 3rd option.  I've always thought he was best suited to be the 3rd option on a title team.    

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

4 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

This is why I thought offering him a big deal last offseason was the wrong strategy.  Get him on a team friendly deal or wait and see what the market bares.  Or trade him if you get a great offer OR decide you aren't matching.  

 

I really think Hunter is that dude.  The way he was playing early in the season - if he can regain that and continue to improve going forward - would make him a legit No. 2 man.  I'd take my chances with he and Trae as a top 2 and then JC as the 3rd option.  I've always thought he was best suited to be the 3rd option on a title team.    

I feel good about Dre's progression but consistency isn't just game to game: it's also season to season.

[REHawksFan]

1 minute ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

I feel good about Dre's progression but consistence isn't just game to game: it's also season to season.

Oh I agree.  And let's be honest, he's only played at this level for 17+ games.  But man, the vast majority of those 17 games were really really good.  Didn't look like fluky stuff either.  So we'll see.  I'm just anxious to see if he comes back to close to that form or if he resembles more of the rookie version of Dre.   

[macdaddy]

The thing no one talks about with JC is that we have a young core of Trae/Kev/Cam/Dre/JC/Cap plus OO and some others coming up.   We can't move forward and continue to be led by the VC, Solo, Rondos of the world who come in for one or two years and aren't really that good.   We need a leader who is a star and a leader in the locker room.    Look at that list of young guys.  Who's it going to be ?    JC is the only guy it can be and honestly he's already doing it.   Trae is my favorite player but he isn't that guy.   We're paying Rajon $8 mill to be that guy and contribute almost nothing on the court.   We can't pay JC 25m to drop 15/10, shoot 40% from 3, and be that guy?

[kg01]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

No. But I was expecting him to be our backup PG at least...Not just an assistant coach..lol

Then, respectfully, you were wrong.  Dunn was supposed to be our backup.  Rondo was essentially supposed to be an asst. coach til' the playoffs.

57 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Pay Collins.  Plus would he really want to be in Dallas NOT getting lobs from Luka?

Careful there, macd.  Folks might start recognizing a certain guy's not actually as wonderful to play with as some would have you believe.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

I feel good about Dre's progression but consistency isn't just game to game: it's also season to season.

Given that last year was his rookie season, he just hasn't had the time to show that.  You should expect some real positive strides from where you start as a rookie and where you end your third year.  He was doing everything he could do to show that for this year.  He can't show it season to season except with time.

[RedDawg#8]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

Given that last year was his rookie season, he just hasn't had the time to show that.  You should expect some real positive strides from where you start as a rookie and where you end your third year.  He was doing everything he could do to show that for this year.  He can't show it season to season except with time.

Exactly, plus, considering his profile as a prospect, he is about as safe a bet as it gets when you think about a sustainable level of performance. 

He may never top out as the next Kawhi, but you best believe he has the fundamental skillset, physical stature, and BBIQ to be a high level, top-3 player,  for a winning team as shown from his time at Virginia.

[terrell]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

The thing no one talks about with JC is that we have a young core of Trae/Kev/Cam/Dre/JC/Cap plus OO and some others coming up.   We can't move forward and continue to be led by the VC, Solo, Rondos of the world who come in for one or two years and aren't really that good.   We need a leader who is a star and a leader in the locker room.    Look at that list of young guys.  Who's it going to be ?    JC is the only guy it can be and honestly he's already doing it.   Trae is my favorite player but he isn't that guy.   We're paying Rajon $8 mill to be that guy and contribute almost nothing on the court.   We can't pay JC 25m to drop 15/10, shoot 40% from 3, and be that guy?

Travis might not want his Leader taking PED's one year,  and complaining about not getting enough touches the next though..lol

 

[macdaddy]

17 minutes ago, terrell said:

Travis might not want his Leader taking PED's one year,  and complaining about not getting enough touches the next though..lol

 

Nah.  No cares about the peds at this point.    But the gm doesn't get to pick the leader.   The leaders emerge on a team and JC has done that.   I could be wrong because i don't know what goes on in the locker room but he's the only guy i see really rallying the troops.

[sturt]

I don't participate in conversations here anymore. But I'll say this much, and leave it alone: Leaders of significance are forged in the playoffs, not in the regular season.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

15 hours ago, AHF said:

Given that last year was his rookie season, he just hasn't had the time to show that.  You should expect some real positive strides from where you start as a rookie and where you end your third year.  He was doing everything he could do to show that for this year.  He can't show it season to season except with time.

I acknowledge this.  He need time to prove himself.  Just stating that he cannot be a one-and-done player that has a good year like Isaiah Thomas. For everyone to fell good about Collins getting paid, our wings need to continue their development and be consistent. Otherwise it's like we overpaid Josh Smith.

[Atlantaholic]

17 hours ago, macdaddy said:

The thing no one talks about with JC is that we have a young core of Trae/Kev/Cam/Dre/JC/Cap plus OO and some others coming up.   We can't move forward and continue to be led by the VC, Solo, Rondos of the world who come in for one or two years and aren't really that good.   We need a leader who is a star and a leader in the locker room.    Look at that list of young guys.  Who's it going to be ?    JC is the only guy it can be and honestly he's already doing it.   Trae is my favorite player but he isn't that guy.   We're paying Rajon $8 mill to be that guy and contribute almost nothing on the court.   We can't pay JC 25m to drop 15/10, shoot 40% from 3, and be that guy?

I feel like paying JC for us next season is similar to when the Jazz signed Gobert... Yes, you look at that deal and you think they are overpaying like crazy, but at the end of the day the cost of letting him go is so much higher than his contract. Yes, he is overpaid, also yes, without him the Jazz would be a mediocre franchise for the forseeable future. Now JCs impact isn't on the level of Gobert, but if we let him go who do we get that can replace what he gives us? There aren't All Star PFs who can stretch the floor and play good defense just waiting in the wings, and there probably won't be any time soon either.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Atlantaholic

[AHF]

1 hour ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

I acknowledge this.  He need time to prove himself.  Just stating that he cannot be a one-and-done player that has a good year like Isaiah Thomas. For everyone to fell good about Collins getting paid, our wings need to continue their development and be consistent. Otherwise it's like we overpaid Josh Smith.

I think we all want to make sure he isn't a one-and-done but I'd tell you that it wasn't a single year for Thomas.  He was excellent from age 24-27.  After he got hurt, he has never been the same again.

I'm hoping Hunter has a longer career ahead of him but IT wasn't a one and done player.

Age 24-27 he was 20.5 - 26.5 PER every year, .149 - .211 WS/48, combined >.580% TS%, etc.  That is very good and a pretty significant sample size ( playing 297 games out of a possible 328).

[bleachkit]

13 hours ago, sturt said:

I don't participate in conversations here anymore. But I'll say this much, and leave it alone: Leaders of significance are forged in the playoffs, not in the regular season.

We have to get there first, which is looking less and less likely.

[JayBirdHawk]

Not a trade, but........

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

We could use a big...Damian Jones got waived by the Suns