Hawks Free Agent Targets

[kg01]

13 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Because I love JC you damn child, I just have major gap in what his value is long term. I see a player who isn't a championship level player and I don't want us to end up holding the bag on his future contract. A LeVine or Gordon deal is really the best type of deal for JC. He gets paid and he still moveable if push comes to shove.

Come on, man ...

Anyway, I think we all see Collins' warts.  The disconnect is you keep identifying players either with the same or worse warts to replace him with.  And then you talk down to whoever points it out.

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Harrell is a 6 WAR player and can we expect this level of efficiency from JC when teams will scheme you silly. Look at what happened to Siakam for crying out loud.

The difference is teams will actually scheme JC to some extent, they won't Harrell though.  

Teams are scheming Siakam because he was considered the 'best'  player for Toronto, no team is scheming Harrell.

[NBASupes]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

The difference is teams will actually scheme JC to some extent, they won't Harrell though.  

Teams are scheming Siakam because he was considered the 'best'  player for Toronto, no team is scheming Harrell.

Denver literally schemed the shit out of Harrell after game 4, what are you talking about? 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Come on, man ...

Anyway, I think we all see Collins' warts.  The disconnect is you keep identifying players either with the same or worse warts to replace him with.  And then you talk down to whoever points it out.

You need to come on man. Stop acting like I don't like the kid because I do. I just don't value him anywhere close to idiots who are sold this is a franchise guy because to me, he's an Aaron Gordon or Zack LaVine. They are just high end JAGs. These aren't difference makers. They lack great value to winning teams. If you can't see that, then get some damn glasses. 

Stop trying to frame a narrative that I dislike JC because he's literally one of my favorite guys on the squad by far. 

Harrell literally is worth 6 WAR within 70 games. He's worth his pay. He's an excellent switch defender, Denver had to scheme him because he was impacting Jokic production but once they made the adjustments from some successful plays they had, they exposed Harrell and ultimately exposed the Clippers. 

[JayBirdHawk]

25 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You need to come on man. Stop acting like I don't like the kid because I do. I just don't value him anywhere close to idiots who are sold this is a franchise guy because to me, he's an Aaron Gordon or Zack LaVine. They are just high end JAGs. These aren't difference makers. They lack great value to winning teams. If you can't see that, then get some damn glasses. 

Stop trying to frame a narrative that I dislike JC because he's literally one of my favorite guys on the squad by far. 

Harrell literally is worth 6 WAR within 70 games. He's worth his pay. He's an excellent switch defender, Denver had to scheme him because he was impacting Jokic production but once they made the adjustments from some successful plays they had, they exposed Harrell and ultimately exposed the Clippers. 

Show me one person who said JC is our Franchise Guy.

[terrell]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Not really. Money is earned during the regular season. No one pays guys but idiots based on just playoff success. Especially if the player has a specific skill-set. 

This is how Jud Buchler gets a big contract while someone who's good for the Hawks gets a small deal from elsewhere and is a tremendous steal for a better team.

Harrell deserves to be paid. 20 million for a 6th man big is far too much. 13-15 million is enough. 4/60 is sound. 

Honestly, this is my fear with JC, an easily exposable player getting massively overpaid is a massive fear of mines. The playoffs make Myles Turner look like he's a MLE player, you can't judge guys specifically by the playoffs.

Collins is way better than Harrell though..

[terrell]

Just now, terrell said:

Collins is way better than Harrell though..

"And alot younger"

[NBASupes]

Just now, terrell said:

Collins is way better than Harrell though..

No. Harrell is better. He just worse offensively. Defensively, he's miles better.

[JayBirdHawk]

38 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Denver literally schemed the shit out of Harrell after game 4, what are you talking about? 

On defense sure and he doesn't have enough on offense to provide any offsets...JC does and that's even without JC 'creating his own offense', he still has enough in his tool box to have some impact.

Just now, NBASupes said:

No. Harrell is better. He just worse offensively. Defensively, he's miles better.

Nope.

[NBASupes]

Just now, NBASupes said:

No. Harrell is better. He just worse offensively. Defensively, he's miles better.

Neither are guys you can call on to be franchise guys. Both are high end JAGs. Also, you gotta believe JC still has potential to get better. Harrell is what he is at this point.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

On defense sure and he doesn't have enough on offense to provide any offsets...JC does and that's even without JC 'creating his own offense', he still has enough in his tool box to have some impact.

Nope.

You are going to see sooner than later what I am talking about. No one is saying it but Capela is clearly are 2nd best player by a mile and I been to enough Rocket and Hawks games live to confirm this. JC will eventually go to the bench as a 6th man at some point of his career. Him and Josh Smith are one of the same. Different players and impact but the end result will be the same. Both need or needed in Smoove case to be in the role Harrell is in for their prime, a 6th man for a contender. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Neither are guys you can call on to be franchise guys. Both are high end JAGs. Also, you gotta believe JC still has potential to get better. Harrell is what he is at this point.

We said this to you back when you advocated trading JC for a 2020 pick and starting Harrell at PF for $20 million.

Based on what Collins has done so far in improving his game the last 2 years, there is still room for him to get better. Harrell is, and I'll say it again - an energy big off the bench.

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Neither are guys you can call on to be franchise guys. Both are high end JAGs. Also, you gotta believe JC still has potential to get better. Harrell is what he is at this point.

Again...no one has called JC a franchise guy.

Franchise guys are guys you build your team around.,,,as in Trae Young.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We said this to you back when you advocated trading JC for a 2020 pick and starting Harrell at PF for $20 million.

Based on what Collins has done so far in improving his game the last 2 years, there is still room for him to get better. Harrell is, and I'll say it again - an energy big off the bench.

I did if Harrell had a long term good contract before the Capela trade because his switchablity but I didn't take into account his lack of defensive BBIQ because I don't get a chance to watch a lot of Clipper games and went I do, teams don't exactly know it's a weakness but they do now. I always knew his offensive BBIQ was shaky but defensively, he always been a very strong impact. 

Now with or without Capela, I wouldn't trade 17 and JC for Harrell. No way jose if the contracts made sense. He's never going to be a good starter on a good or great team. He's a bad team starter and a good or great team 6th man

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Again...no one has called JC a franchise guy.

Franchise guys are guys you build your team around.,,,as in Trae Young.

Franchise guys are one of two things. Extremely well paid or extremely productive. Oftentimes both. If you are an advocate of overpaying JC for more than 4/70 million, you are saying JC is a franchise player. Buddy Hield is a franchise player due to his pay and that's why SAC is looking to move him asap

[terrell]

30 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Franchise guys are one of two things. Extremely well paid or extremely productive. Oftentimes both. If you are an advocate of overpaying JC for more than 4/70 million, you are saying JC is a franchise player. Buddy Hield is a franchise player due to his pay and that's why SAC is looking to move him asap

Siakam got 4/130..Sabonis got 4/75..Heck, your boy Horford got 4/109.. And you think Collins is taking 4/70? I doubt it..

[terrell]

Just now, terrell said:

Siakam got 4/130..Sabonis got 4/75..Heck, your boy Horford got 4/109.. And you think Collins is taking 4/70? I doubt it..

Siakam would be making 15 mill more a year than Collins...

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, terrell said:

Siakam got 4/130..Sabonis got 4/75..Heck, your boy Horford got 4/109.. And you think Collins is taking 4/70? I doubt it..

You can't compare Al Horford who's a proven winner and does everything to help you as a winner to JC. That's like comparing Eric Bledsoe to Kyle Lowry. Raw numbers just don't tell the entire story at all. 

Siakam got vastly overpaid for that title win and honestly, Toronto is regretting that move but Masai has always overpaid players. Hes just shewd at trades that makes up for it.

Sabonis got slightly too much but this is the max JC should get. Both are within a similar range. Both are likely best as 6th man on a contender a key player on a pretender but make no bones about it, Sabonis playmaking makes him more of a valuable playoff option but he's flawed too.

Siakam is one of the most overpaid players in the NBA but he got that because of that ring and his improvement every year leading to his contract year. It made sense even if it was hasty

[NBASupes]

16 minutes ago, terrell said:

Siakam would be making 15 mill more a year than Collins...

Stop comparing oranges to apples 

[kg01]

Horford is an elite glue guy but that doesn't mean he's not vastly overpaid.  There's a reason he's now considered one of the worst contracts in the league.

And it's totally fair to compare the contracts of players who play similar positions.  No one is saying Trashcal and Collins are the same player.