Consensus #2 pick

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

But you were trying to peep or how woukd you know?

Oh ya I definitely tried to cheat and look . System blocked me lol

[Spud2nique]

My heart says Okongwu (Kevin Garnett type feeling where he dropped to 5th overall, the guy makes you feel secure in the way he plays).

My brain  say Wiseman ( His measurements off the charts, didn’t have the opportunity to show out as much, 3 games).

[NBASupes]

17 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Picking a player isn’t so much about the player and the fit in the team alone anymore. It’s about predicting the future landscape of the NBA. Will be be reverting back to a more defensive type league like the 80’s or is this offensive style going to continue and possibly go further. 
 

If it goes further and offense is the only name of the game, then Toppin and Collins can be redundant and still work, but if we need to D up, we better get more of a defensive presence. 
 

 

Toppin and Collins isn't redundant. Toppin does a lot more offensively, a lot better. Collins literally has PnR, shooting, offensive rebounding, and polish over Toppin offensively. Offensive rebounding is not that important now that Capela is here as well. 

Every other aspect, Toppin is better, much better, or superior. 

 

[Spud2nique]

13 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Every other aspect, Toppin is better, much better, or superior. 

Better than JC? No I don’t think so at least not right now. 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Better than JC? No I don’t think so at least not right now. 

Yes, easily. 

[Spud2nique]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Yes, easily. 

if that’s the case he’s getting rookie of the year with his 20/10 numbers he puts up in year 1. No man, he’s not a 20/10 guy as a rookie.

[Spud2nique]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Yes, easily. 

So if the Warriors offer you pick #4(say that’s how the lottery turns out) for JC and Obi is still in the board, you would trade them Collins for the pick?

[NBASupes]

16 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

So if the Warriors offer you pick #4(say that’s how the lottery turns out) for JC and Obi is still in the board, you would trade them Collins for the pick?

I don't like answering this question. I don't know how the negotiations with John are going for a fact and I don't know enough about it. Would I listen, hell yeah. 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I don't like answering this question. I don't know how the negotiations with John are going for a fact and I don't know enough about it. Would I listen, hell yeah. 

@Spud2nique

If you trade Collins to GS, you know what that means. That's gift wrapping them to contender status ASAP. John is literally the perfect offensive fit. Defensive, he fits which is big for them as Green does their heavy lifting. 

Atlanta would also have to add a vet PF to backup or start over Toppin. Paul Millsap becomes a priority signing for us. He's a perfect fit in this situation. 24.4 MPG. Which means Obi can play 24-30 MPG which we need. 

I honestly need more from GS. Collins is a much superior buy for them than someone like Aaron Gordon and they can afford Collins for next year cheap. 

If GS can do that deal. That's like the Pau Gasol for Marc Gasol trade overall. Both teams win. GS win now, us, win now and win a lot more later. 

For us, it will feel like the opposite of the Pau Gasol-SAR trade where we traded a better young player for a good young vet. This time, SAR(Collins) is going to his perfect fit and SAR was overrated, John isn't. 

[NBASupes]

Podcast

Edited May 22, 2020 by NBASupes

[gurpilo]

Wow, I find amazing you Supes consider Toppin a better offensive player than Collins. Collins is easily a top 30 offensive player on the league, I really doubt Toppin would ever reach that level, of course not in first season. I understand you don’t consider Collins good enough at PF, he has holes of course and I agree these holes are big enough to doubt he is really a max player, I understand the point.

 But, trying to defend that statement, that I think is fair, you are really undervaluing a really good player and overvaluing a prospect that has as much holes and is the same age, there are much more chances Toppin never reach Collins level than he becomes better than him ever, really much more. There is nothing on Toppin’s stats and performance that suggest he is a top talent even on a weak draft, I just don’t see it and would never change Collins for Toppin, not in a million years.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

If you trade Collins to GS, you know what that means. That's gift wrapping them to contender status ASAP. John is literally the perfect offensive fit. Defensive, he fits which is big for them as Green does their heavy lifting. 

 

Ya this true that’s why I would trade Collins for a top 5 pick this year. This draft isn’t the strongest no matter how you look at it. A 20/10 guy that has proven he can play like JC vs an unknown, ya I can’t do it.

 

Also, I’d rather eat a bug than help the Warriors. I’d prolly do some “other stuff”too..   

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya this true that’s why I would trade Collins for a top 5 pick this year. This draft isn’t the strongest no matter how you look at it. A 20/10 guy that has proven he can play like JC vs an unknown, ya I can’t do it.

 

Also, I’d rather eat a bug than help the Warriors. I’d prolly do some “other stuff”too..   

You would or wouldn't?

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You would or wouldn't?

AAAHHHHH WOULD NOT!!!! 

And the edit doesn’t work  

[NBASupes]

59 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya this true that’s why I would trade Collins for a top 5 pick this year. This draft isn’t the strongest no matter how you look at it. A 20/10 guy that has proven he can play like JC vs an unknown, ya I can’t do it.

 

Also, I’d rather eat a bug than help the Warriors. I’d prolly do some “other stuff”too..   

It's all about that future contract of Collins. Even if I think Toppin is better for us down the road, it's about that contract. That said, if Toppin is available at #2 or later assuming Edwards is gone. He's still the best pick regardless of John or not and since backup 4 is an issue, he qualifies as an option for us. Just the facts. 

[Spud2nique]

Onyeka Okongwu stamped at #2 for me.  

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, gurpilo said:

Wow, I find amazing you Supes consider Toppin a better offensive player than Collins. Collins is easily a top 30 offensive player on the league, I really doubt Toppin would ever reach that level, of course not in first season. I understand you don’t consider Collins good enough at PF, he has holes of course and I agree these holes are big enough to doubt he is really a max player, I understand the point.

 But, trying to defend that statement, that I think is fair, you are really undervaluing a really good player and overvaluing a prospect that has as much holes and is the same age, there are much more chances Toppin never reach Collins level than he becomes better than him ever, really much more. There is nothing on Toppin’s stats and performance that suggest he is a top talent even on a weak draft, I just don’t see it and would never change Collins for Toppin, not in a million years.

As of right now, both are 8.5 on offense with Collins closing in on 9 if he can up the volume of his 3pt shooting. Toppin ceiling is a 9.5 on offense with two offensive swings left not to mention .5 for fit with Trae which benefits John. He's better than John on offense. 

Toppin can score in movement, PnR, PnP, DHO, post-up, he can draw double teams, he's an excellent passer for his position in the half court, is an excellent quick decision maker, he's a lot more athletic than John, he's more explosive, he gets off the ground quicker, he has good open court handles. This dude is the best scoring PF I've seen as a prospect. 

You are extremely underrating how good a scorer Toppin is. I can't wait till he's in the NBA. This is cute because most haven't seen how good this guy is at scoring. He's elite and he's not just that. This kid is Amar'e 2.0 at scoring. 

I been trying to tell ya'll but if you want to be the skeptical, be my guest. He's not just a movement guy, he will score anywhere with any PG. Not just a special one like Trae. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by NBASupes

[Spud2nique]

45 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

As of right now, both are 8.5 on offense with Collins closing in on 9 if he can up the volume of his 3pt shooting. Toppin ceiling is a 9.5 on offense with two offensive swings left not to mention .5 for fit with Trae which benefits John. He's better than John on offense. 

Toppin can score in movement, PnR, PnP, DHO, post-up, he can draw double teams, he's an excellent passer for his position in the half court, is an excellent quick decision maker, he's a lot more athletic than John, he's more explosive, he gets off the ground quicker, he has good open court handles. This dude is the best scoring PF I've seen as a prospect. 

You are extremely underrating how good a scorer Toppin is. I can't wait till he's in the NBA. This is cute because most haven't seen how good this guy is at scoring. He's elite and he's not just that. This kid is Amar'e 2.0 at scoring. 

I been trying to tell ya'll but if you want to be the skeptical, be my guest. He's not just a movement guy, he will score anywhere with any PG. Not just a special one like Trae. 

Long term best nba career overall impact, winning and all..

Okongwu>Toppin
 

Just a hunch. If anyone is reading this in 5 years and I’m right I meant it. If I’m wrong I’m just kidding  

 

[Spud2nique]

I like Toppin but to me selecting him doesn’t address our need for interior D. Ya I know Capela does but we need more girthy D inside. 

[Marvin24Williams]

I'm taking Melo here

3rd pick Okongwu or Wiseman. Leaning towards Okongwu, I feel like he's going to be a high impact player.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Marvin24Williams