Hawks Perpetual Preseason Watch

[bleachkit]

On 9/14/2020 at 10:59 AM, AHF said:

Where are US players allowed to travel that have real basketball?

 

They dont need to leave the country. But it would be great if players/teams of the delete 8 staged a mutiny and had a tournament.

[AHF]

13 hours ago, bleachkit said:

They dont need to leave the country. But it would be great if players/teams of the delete 8 staged a mutiny and had a tournament.

If the delete 8 players want to do this, the Union shouldn't stand in their way.  If the Union is ok with it, I have a hard time seeing ownership standing in the way.  Logically, you'd think that there are some vocal players on the delete 8 teams who don't want to do this but this feels pretty dysfunctional so logic may not be holding up.  I really don't see a reason that they can't do some type of more limited delete 8 even if it is breaking the players into 2-3 groups to help ease control implementation.  

[JayBirdHawk]

 

Quote

“This is what we’re getting in return, so we’re going to take it and get the most out of it,” general manager Travis Schlenk said last week. “There’s no way to replicate what those 22 teams got, though. I wish we would have had the opportunity because it would have been great for our young guys to go down there and get more playing time.”

Schlenk said he expects Trae Young, John Collins, Kevin Huerter, De’Andre Hunter, Cam Reddish and Clint Capela to participate in this camp. It’s unclear if any of the pending free agents will participate, but Schlenk said the 15-man roster will be filled with players from the College Park Skyhawks.

Reporters will not be allowed inside the camp, but we will have media availabilities throughout the two weeks, so that means we’ll have fresh content.

 

Quote

Trae Young

Will he be given more opportunities to play off the ball?

Young was one of the best catch-and-shoot shooters this season, shooting nearly 47 percent on his 3-point attempts......Young’s off-ball movement ranks him in the sixth percentile, meaning he’s barely getting any opportunities to work without the ball. The Hawks need to take advantage of Young’s lethal efficiency in catching and firing. That’s why it’s also important to either grow Huerter or Reddish into that secondary playmaking role, draft one in a few months, trade for one or sign one in free agency.

John Collins

Has he added a playmaking dimension to his game?

 Collins was seen as an uber-athletic prospect who had the potential to grow into something, but what that something was going to be was hard to figure out. He wasn’t a shooter in college and he wasn’t the best defender. In three seasons, he has developed into a better than 40 percent 3-point shooter and also is a growing defender...... one area where he’s lacking is playmaking for others and taking defenders off the dribble. I

Kevin Huerter

Has he gotten more assertive?

Huerter played 1,760 minutes this season yet he only attempted 87 shots at the rim in the half court. He only made 40 of those attempts, which ranked him in the 17th percentile, according to Cleaning The Glass. He also only attempted 1.3 free throws per game.

De’Andre Hunter

How much is he playing at the four in scrimmages?

While Hunter played the majority of his minutes at the three this season, his best position long term might be at the four. One of the reasons why Reddish was a better defender is because he can guard those quicker guards and wings whereas Hunter struggled in his rookie season. It’s not a coincidence the Hawks’ best lineups featured Hunter at the four.

Cam Reddish

Has his playmaking improved?

Before the draft, I spoke with a few of Reddish’s former coaches, who all raved about his ability to have the ball in his hands and make plays. Reddish showed flashes of being a capable secondary creator one day, but he has a long way to go before he should be trusted in that role.....The encouraging metric in Reddish’s playmaking ability is him ranking in the 96th percentile in potential assists per 100 passes. He has the ability; he just has to make smarter decisions, which will come with time.

Clint Capela

How well is he moving after such a long layoff?

The biggest question should be how healthy he looks and what his conditioning level is after not playing for nearly nine months. Foot problems for big men always are highly concerning, so it would be encouraging if he could get through the two weeks with no setbacks and limitations.

The bigger questions such as the fit with Collins.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[NBASupes]

I keep saying this, Chris wants JC to be what I want JC to be but on no level has he shown this ability. Shooting 40% from three was something he flashed in draft day workouts and he had a nice touch and good FT line%. That's was always something possible but being a playmaker or creating for yourself is talent you either got or don't got. Cam Reddish has horrible ast/to ratios in the last two seasons of college and NBA ball but we saw the talent in HS/AAU and we seen the flashes with the Hawks especially out of the PnR. It's not close to being ready yet but it wouldn't shock me if it came down the road.

[ATLHawks3]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I keep saying this, Chris wants JC to be what I want JC to be but on no level has he shown this ability. Shooting 40% from three was something he flashed in draft day workouts and he had a nice touch and good FT line%. That's was always something possible but being a playmaker or creating for yourself is talent you either got or don't got. Cam Reddish has horrible ast/to ratios in the last two seasons of college and NBA ball but we saw the talent in HS/AAU and we seen the flashes with the Hawks especially out of the PnR. It's not close to being ready yet but it wouldn't shock me if it came down the road.

Wouldn't you also attribute it to the fact that he's never been asked to become more of a playmaker (From college to the NBA).

[NBASupes]

As far as off the ball play with Trae, too many times I see him do the Harden but worse. He will step back to the mid court looking like, pass the ball back here. There has to be more will from Trae to move off the ball more. 

 

As for Kevin, he is what he is in terms of assertiveness. I just want to see him get more touches. He's usually productive when you get him touches. If not for himself, for others. This is on LP to do. 2nd unit is an obvious move for Kevin in my opinion. Kevin lack of movement is not a surprise to me. I've been thinking for awhile he's a rich man's Jon Berry or Mike Miller lite. He just lacks the stamina so many white American NBA players have. Can't make him be something he ain't. 

 

Hunter needs to stick to being a 3. We just saw Miles Bridges make the same transition. We knew it was going to take at least a year. Be patience. 

 

I think we are a full year away from Cam showcasing solid playmaking skills. He just needs to focus on being productive and making the most out of his touches, especially scoring wise where he's needed most. 

 

Clint should be fine. I am less worried about him than anyone other than Trae at this moment. 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, ATLHawks3 said:

Wouldn't you also attribute it to the fact that he's never been asked to become more of a playmaker (From college to the NBA).

It's something you got or don't got. It's not about being asked to or not. So is Damian Jones not a playmaker because we don't ask him? We never asked Bruno to be a playmaker but he's superior to it than JC is at this moment. Is Graham not a playmaker, because we don't ask him? Bud literally asked Prince to be a playmaker, did anyone on this site think he was a playmaker in that 2nd half of the season with Bud as the coach?

[aali34]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

It's something you got or don't got. It's not about being asked to or not. So is Damian Jones not a playmaker because we don't ask him? We never asked Bruno to be a playmaker but he's superior to it than JC is at this moment. Is Graham not a playmaker, because we don't ask him? Bud literally asked Prince to be a playmaker, did anyone on this site think he was a playmaker in that 2nd half of the season with Bud as the coach?

Kawhi wasn't really a playmaker when he came into the league. He developed from just catch and shooting to creating for others.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

It's something you got or don't got. It's not about being asked to or not. 

We aren't asking him to be Trae running plays from the top of the key....more like make plays out of the PnR when teams cut off the easy scoring play, when teams chase him off the 3, put it on the floor and finish or make a play, grab a rebound and go. These are things I want to see develop in his game.

This was LP's plan last October 2019 before Collins' suspension (which Pierce said set back that part of his development plan):

Quote

So, to start, Pierce will experiment with putting the ball in Collins’ hands to see what that looks like. Collins has established himself as one of the best rebounding big men in the league, so if the Hawks can take advantage of his athleticism and speed on the break, they will experiment with him bringing the ball up the floor as a facilitator. Fans aren’t going to see Collins at the top of the key calling plays out with the ball in his hands as if he were Trae Young because Collins being in a playmaking role is going to be contingent on the time, score and situation of the game.

“If John is able to get a rebound and push, we’ll be able to create and start our break earlier,” Pierce said. “Those are opportunities we’re looking for him to do it. If Trae is ahead, John has to kick it to Trae. If Kevin (Huerter) is ahead, John has to kick it to Kevin. There’s no set play to say, ‘John, we’re running iso.’ We don’t play iso basketball. It’s about advancing the ball in the right guy’s hands and making simple plays and getting it to the guys who know how to make the simple plays. That’s just something we’ll see, and he’ll show me where I say, ‘We’re going to run this play for John.’ He’s got to show it, and he’s got to be comfortable doing it as well.”

 

John's (June 2020) take on what he can do to improve:

Quote

“Ballhandling would be one, just trying to tighten it up and get it crisp,” Collins said. “Watching film and seeing how my teammates like to catch the ball, seeing what their tendencies are helps. There’s so many things, a multitude of things. I feel like getting lower and like I said, figuring out how I like to pass, figuring out what my strengths are, do I like overhand, underhand, and timing, there’s a bunch of factors that go into it. Film is probably the first place where I’ll start, and then we can go from there.”

He's willing to put in the work.

https://theathletic.com/1262212/

 

[NBASupes]

38 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We aren't asking him to be Trae running plays from the top of the key....more like make plays out of the PnR when teams cut off the easy scoring play, when teams chase him off the 3, put it on the floor and finish or make a play, grab a rebound and go. These are things I want to see develop in his game.

This was LP's plan last October 2019 before Collins' suspension (which Pierce said set back that part of his development plan):

 

John's (June 2020) take on what he can do to improve:

He's willing to put in the work.

https://theathletic.com/1262212/

 

You can be willing to put the work in, you know how long Giannis has been working on his shot. Dame on his defense. Jabari on being more of a playmaker. https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/bulls/ct-spt-bulls-jabari-parker-playmaker-20181014-story.html

Y'all really think you can improve on shit you don't have as a professional. This shit just doesn't happen or everyone would do it! Jimmer would be a better defender. You don't think Jimmer worked to be a good defender. You don't think Enes knows he's seen as a Blackhole and that it impacts his future salary? You don't think this is the case? This shit I read on here by some of you guys is foolish. John been this guy since his days at Cardinal Newman. Why do you think it will come? He's been this damn players for ages. 

[NBASupes]

Shaq worked with so many experts on FT shooting and is still ass at it

MKG worked with Mark Price on shooting and still has one of the worst forms I've seen from a professional NBA player in the last 10 years. 

Y'all just think you can improve skills like its Madden. Michael Vick got a 99 accuracy rating now y'all. He's throwing more accurate than Brees ever has.

[High5]

There's no reason John can't improve in those areas. He doesn't need to be Jokic with the ball in his hands.

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, aali34 said:

Kawhi wasn't really a playmaker when he came into the league. He developed from just catch and shooting to creating for others.

We gotta stop this. 

For one, if the playoffs proved anything that we already knew, Kawhi is NOT a playmaker. Just because he can draw double teams and can occasional pass out of it, he still get tunnel vision far too much like Iso Joe. 

Also, let's just stop this comparison right now. 

Kawhi was a late bloomer who was blossom his Senior year in AAU and during the season. Ended up a top 50-60 recruit and Mr. California. Mainly for his insane tools, physical potential, and talent level. 
 

Yes, he was a two prong college player (rebounder and man defender) but his potential was massive to become a lot more than that. He's more comparable to Giannis more than JC. That's the part you and others like you REFUSE to understand. JC is already at his top gear. He might can get better and improve in his improvement areas but to act like he can turn himself into a f***ing monster is just insane and just delusional talk at best. 

Kawhi had massive hands with a tremendous touch. He had to transition from a PF in college to a wing on offense. He had to develop a three pointer where like JC, he showed potential in his pre-draft to do so. But what is also flashed was tremendous mid range potential and the ability in 1v1 to get his shot off at will. JC hasn't showed that on ANY LEVEL. 1v1, AAU, HS, college, pre-draft, anywhere. Kawhi been showing this skill 1v1 since he was in HIGH SCHOOL! It was all about development to make this something that's not just a prep school thing but actualized. Basically, what we are trying to do with Cam Reddish. Kawhi was untapped potential, JC is polished and productive out of Wake. That's why he lead the nation in PER as a Soph. 

Kawhi showed this talent. There were people who felt he should have went in the top 3 of his draft during his draft. I just don't see how you guys can't see that. These aren't the same type of players. If Cam Reddish becomes an all star, that doesn't mean every freshman who has a shitty year who was highly touted is going to be the next Cam Reddish. We gotta see people for what they are and TRULY can be. 

It's wishful thinking to think JC will have self creation skills anytime in his career. It's extremely wishful to think he will ever be even a below average playmaker. He's worse at playmaking than Bembry is at shooting RIGHT NOW. This is the MFer you think will be a playmaker next year. REALLY! His touch per second is on par with Alex Len at 1.56. Just imagine if they tracked if not in scoring position, it would be on Damian Jones status. 

http://www.tankathon.com/players/john-collins

It's not like JC hasn't evolved, he has just like Smoove did going into his 4th year. When JC came out of Wake, he was a finisher/rim runner/offensive rebounder with tremendous touch and athletic ability with no position outside of a smallball 5. Right now, he's an ELITE movement specialist, who has range when open who has terrific touch and is one of the best finishers in the NBA and you  He clearly has evolved but don't think he's going to evolve into a Giannis because he has no lane for that. Handles is garbage. Can barely dribble up the court and maintain his speed. Decision making is garbage when dribbling. Built like a big wing but moves with the ball like a center. Weak and wack first step. Slower shooting form so he can't do any type of pull-ups. If JC can't beat you with his movement skills, insane speed or agility for his size, he ain't scoring AT ALL. Ask Jon Isaac. He's assisted on 78% of points. Higher than extremely assisted Christian Wood. Compare that to @kg01 favorite, Pascal Siakam who's at 48%. He was only topped by the king of assisted FG in Damian Jones. 

There is no pathway for him becoming a self-creator. 

There is no pathway for him becoming a playmaker. 

We have no signs of him being anything but a bad self-creator at every level. We have no signs of him being anything but a bad playmaker at every level. He is who is he. Why is it so hard to accept? 

 

 

 

[NBASupes]

45 minutes ago, High5 said:

There's no reason John can't improve in those areas. He doesn't need to be Jokic with the ball in his hands.

Bembry improved his jumpshot from his rookie year. So has Damian Jones. Would you say they don't need to be Steph Curry with the shot? 

[JayBirdHawk]

Again, nobody is expecting him to be Jokic, where he becomes this amazing all world passer. You are missing the forest for the trees.

 Plays like these are where we expect some improvement.  Lose high handle but still maintained possession and made the right read.

 

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If JC can't beat you with his movement skills, insane speed or agility for his size, he ain't scoring AT ALL.

What???? 

Post up, with stepbacks.

 

Again...a work in progress where he can improve

 

 

 

 

Again, it's about giving him more opportunities to see how he can develop:

 

 

This video is actually representative of the areas that he can  work to improve on with his ball handling and playmaking (1st and 3rd plays):

 

[NBASupes]

Again, nobody is expecting him to be Steph Curry, where he becomes this amazing all world shooter. You are missing the forest for the trees.

 Plays like these are where we expect some improvement.  Look right here, he lined up and his form was solid and made the three pointer.

 

Most of JC's offensive scoring post possessions were against mismatches due to switches on the PnR for Trae. Showing one goofy ass highlight of JC doing a turn around stepback jumper against Capela who wasn't even expecting his ass to do shit due to the scouting report is no different than showing jumpshot Shawty making a three pointer.

 

Stop talking about opportunities. JC's gets 67.5 touches per game. He gets double the opportunities of Huerter and three times the opportunities of Cam and De'Andre. The last passing play is premeditated by JC. He wanted to pass as soon as he touched it. The first one was a CLEAR reason why he has no self-creation whatsoever, he can't even beat Lauri off the dribble with an angle on him. He's as sluggish in space defensively as JC. Ya'll need to stop this rubbish. It's like trying to convince me Bembry is going to shoot it well going into year 4. You might have been able to make a case in year 1 or 2 and maybe 3 with limited reps but by year 4, nope!

[NBASupes]

I am officially convinced John Collins is the new Josh Smith in terms of his reality to his message board hopefulness. Next Dominique is what they said.

[RedDawg#8]

John Collins has a mid range game. His mid range was butter coming out, but he has been coached out of that since being in the league. He has even said as much. The NBA game wants him shooting threes, so he does, but that shot is always there in his bag. 
 

Go to 6:18. Talking bout he aint got a mid range