JTB Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 I know I know you were expecting @NBASupesĀ to start such a thread ....well I actually have to agreeĀ with supes on this one despite Alās large contract but perhaps my take on what his possible return brings is a bit of different take then what Supes has mentioned. Thatās not to say I donāt think supes was right in what he explained just thereās some things I donāt think thatās been mentioned in detail if horford is back on this team next season. Heres my point of view on the benefits of bringing Al back and I can let you know now the only negative in Alās return is his contract but even then his contract isnāt a deal breaker for me if Iām schlenk. The Contract: clearly Al is owed a large sum of money over his remaining contract. To be exact heās owed 26 - 27 mil per season over the next 3 seasons...YES thatās a lot of money for a guy who is no where near a superstar level player however and this may be where supes and I disagree the most but Iām for horford taking on horfords deal sinceĀ realistically I donāt see Schlenk getting strikes in any upcoming free agencies maybe even in this years free agency classĀ Ā .....that could look as a negative to some of you but Iām just being real! The only way atlanta is going to attract star players to come here is if these young guys start geling with a extremely good veteran supportive bench behind them and actually win some damn games, making it to playoffs. Schlenk canāt afford to strike out this off seasonĀ then tell us fans they are gearing up for 2021 free agency class...bullshit! If no real moves are made this summer this team will continue to lose...There will be plenty of teams with cap next summer and Atlanta need to look like a winner if they want looks....by all means horfords contract should force a asset to come with him and I believe philly KNOWS this! ...Phillys pick will do! Ā Horfords benefit as a leader: Maybe you forgot but even when Johnson was considered the best player here to many or even when Sap was considered the best player here to many Horford WAS the team leader! We lack so much leadership on this roster today and while I like Dedmons effort to pick up the slack in this area , Iād much rather have a vet whoās had a winning reputation come in and SHOW the guys how to lead their team. Not that dedmon shouldnāt continue to be a team leader but Al will really show the young leaders how itās done. Thatās a benefit that you canāt put a price on! Ā Horfords impact as player on the court with this young team offensively : First and foremost even at age 34 horfords impact when used correctly is still a huge factor on the court. Clearly heās not being used right in Philly at all whatsoever so donāt let that fool you. A lot of what we ask of the bigs to do here under LPs offense Horford is STILL exceptional at! Take notice that the offense thatās created around our star Trae calls for aĀ countless number of screens on and off ball from the bigs, the need forĀ basketball IQ to see and understand what and whereĀ his teammates areĀ doing in their role offensively, the need for the big man to be able to complete baskets at the goal and spread the floor to shoot the rock,Ā and aĀ missing part we need BADLYĀ from the bigs in LPs offenseĀ is playmaking skills which horford still possesses. Because of what LP ask from the bigs in this offense horford will make everyone around him better because his skills matchup greatly with what we do here. Horfords defense impact: I wonāt get into defense too much as I believe Capela, Dedmon will already stress to the team how important it is to have effort on that end! You add Horford to the mix and he will also be in the ear of the team stressing defensive importance with these 3 guys as the anchorsĀ of the defense and having willing wing defenders like cam and hunter who I believe will listen and respond greatly to these vets... Iām not too worried about the defense being able to turn things around especially with Capela, Dedmon, & Horford. Ā Horfords benefit to Collins: This is my favorite part about having horford rejoin the hawks. I truly believe horford can help Collins be a better all around player. While I understand you canāt teach instincts you sure as hell can help increase a players IQ on the court. Collins already possesses a good offensive IQ as Iāve stated time after time Collins screen setting ability On and off ball and knowledge on when to spread the floor or cut or roll to the basket has been excellent. While it sounds like a small job on the floor itās an extremely important one that Collins has been elite at. Collins also knows how to free himself up to get good looks with this ability....a vet like horford will really appreciate colllins willingness to play unselfish offensively while still finding a way to get his buckets trusting that his teammates will find him when heās open.Ā Ā What Collins lacks to make him an elite offensive player is playmaking, not being able to put the ball on the floor like many have suggestedĀ ....Collins learning how to dribble isnāt as needed in my opinion as his playmaking skills increasingĀ Ā and this is where Horford can play a big part because Al is a very good passing Big man that sees the floor well. Horford will see that John has SOME similarities to him offensively and the areas Collins isnāt good at Al can really help with. defensively Horford and the rest of the bigs could all help Collins. Like I said above you canāt teach instincts but what you can do is Ā increase aĀ young players basketball IQ knowledge as long as they are willing to learn and has already shown some type of developed IQ since entering the league (Collins fits that example to ME)...no horford cant change Collins instincts defensively but he can help develop his IQ and itās up to Collins how he applies what he learned on the court (you probably heard thatĀ Ā before ...yeah kobe said something like this along those lines) Last it helps that Collins is such a humble ass dude ...right now in Philly thereās a few players with egos thatās probably not listening to horford which is why he said he wanted out earlier this season. Conclusion: Itās about getting to the playoffs right now in my opinion while also developing the young players. Coaches can only go so far! You need quality vets to help win and horford gives you that. Schlenk is a good gm but even he knows that unless the hawks have a winning season thereās no way we can attract talent here. Adding horford to our big man rotation is HUGE ...you HAVEĀ Ā to look past the salary and see the guaranteed impact Horford brings . Iām like everyone else I donāt like the contract horford has but then I look at it and say well hell there a big chance we canāt even sign quality younger bench guys this off season with all the cap we have! All our young core is still on rookie deals with Collins contract coming up. Als contract is only for 3 more seasons thatās not that long...get horford here, make philly attach qualityĀ Ā asset with taking on Als contract that can be used in trades down the line (which I think can easily be done) and letās get the ball rolling!Ā THIS off season is our 2021 off season. Itās important we get it right as much as possible and have a bench of quality vets. Ā 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 30 minutes ago, JTB said: THIS off season is our 2021 off season. Iām still waiting for 2021 to land Giannis! Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bird_dirt Posted August 16, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 31 minutes ago, JTB said: I know I know you were expecting @NBASupesĀ to start such a thread ....well I actually have to agreeĀ with supes on this one despite Alās large contract but perhaps my take on what his possible return brings is a bit of different take then what Supes has mentioned. Thatās not to say I donāt think supes was right in what he explained just thereās some things I donāt think thatās been mentioned in detail if horford is back on this team next season. Heres my point of view on the benefits of bringing Al back and I can let you know now the only negative in Alās return is his contract but even then his contract isnāt a deal breaker for me if Iām schlenk. The Contract: clearly Al is owed a large sum of money over his remaining contract. To be exact heās owed 26 - 27 mil per season over the next 3 seasons...YES thatās a lot of money for a guy who is no where near a superstar level player however and this may be where supes and I disagree the most but Iām for horford taking on horfords deal sinceĀ realistically I donāt see Schlenk getting strikes in any upcoming free agencies maybe even in this years free agency classĀ Ā .....that could look as a negative to some of you but Iām just being real! The only way atlanta is going to attract star players to come here is if these young guys start geling with a extremely good veteran supportive bench behind them and actually win some damn games, making it to playoffs. Schlenk canāt afford to strike out this off seasonĀ then tell us fans they are gearing up for 2021 free agency class...bullshit! If no real moves are made this summer this team will continue to lose...There will be plenty of teams with cap next summer and Atlanta need to look like a winner if they want looks....by all means horfords contract should force a asset to come with him and I believe philly KNOWS this! ...Phillys pick will do! Ā Horfords benefit as a leader: Maybe you forgot but even when Johnson was considered the best player here to many or even when Sap was considered the best player here to many Horford WAS the team leader! We lack so much leadership on this roster today and while I like Dedmons effort to pick up the slack in this area , Iād much rather have a vet whoās had a winning reputation come in and SHOW the guys how to lead their team. Not that dedmon shouldnāt continue to be a team leader but Al will really show the young leaders how itās done. Thatās a benefit that you canāt put a price on! Ā Horfords impact as player on the court with this young team offensively : First and foremost even at age 34 horfords impact when used correctly is still a huge factor on the court. Clearly heās not being used right in Philly at all whatsoever so donāt let that fool you. A lot of what we ask of the bigs to do here under LPs offense Horford is STILL exceptional at! Take notice that the offense thatās created around our star Trae calls for aĀ countless number of screens on and off ball from the bigs, the need forĀ basketball IQ to see and understand what and whereĀ his teammates areĀ doing in their role offensively, the need for the big man to be able to complete baskets at the goal and spread the floor to shoot the rock,Ā and aĀ missing part we need BADLYĀ from the bigs in LPs offenseĀ is playmaking skills which horford still possesses. Because of what LP ask from the bigs in this offense horford will make everyone around him better because his skills matchup greatly with what we do here. Horfords defense impact: I wonāt get into defense too much as I believe Capela, Dedmon will already stress to the team how important it is to have effort on that end! You add Horford to the mix and he will also be in the ear of the team stressing defensive importance with these 3 guys as the anchorsĀ of the defense and having willing wing defenders like cam and hunter who I believe will listen and respond greatly to these vets... Iām not too worried about the defense being able to turn things around especially with Capela, Dedmon, & Horford. Ā Horfords benefit to Collins: This is my favorite part about having horford rejoin the hawks. I truly believe horford can help Collins be a better all around player. While I understand you canāt teach instincts you sure as hell can help increase a players IQ on the court. Collins already possesses a good offensive IQ as Iāve stated time after time Collins screen setting ability On and off ball and knowledge on when to spread the floor or cut or roll to the basket has been excellent. While it sounds like a small job on the floor itās an extremely important one that Collins has been elite at. Collins also knows how to free himself up to get good looks with this ability....a vet like horford will really appreciate colllins willingness to play unselfish offensively while still finding a way to get his buckets trusting that his teammates will find him when heās open.Ā Ā What Collins lacks to make him an elite offensive player is playmaking, not being able to put the ball on the floor like many have suggestedĀ ....Collins learning how to dribble isnāt as needed in my opinion as his playmaking skills increasingĀ Ā and this is where Horford can play a big part because Al is a very good passing Big man that sees the floor well. Horford will see that John has SOME similarities to him offensively and the areas Collins isnāt good at Al can really help with. defensively Horford and the rest of the bigs could all help Collins. Like I said above you canāt teach instincts but what you can do is Ā increase aĀ young players basketball IQ knowledge as long as they are willing to learn and has already shown some type of developed IQ since entering the league (Collins fits that example to ME)...no horford cant change Collins instincts defensively but he can help develop his IQ and itās up to Collins how he applies what he learned on the court (you probably heard thatĀ Ā before ...yeah kobe said something like this along those lines) Last it helps that Collins is such a humble ass dude ...right now in Philly thereās a few players with egos thatās probably not listening to horford which is why he said he wanted out earlier this season. Conclusion: Itās about getting to the playoffs right now in my opinion while also developing the young players. Coaches can only go so far! You need quality vets to help win and horford gives you that. Schlenk is a good gm but even he knows that unless the hawks have a winning season thereās no way we can attract talent here. Adding horford to our big man rotation is HUGE ...you HAVEĀ Ā to look past the salary and see the guaranteed impact Horford brings . Iām like everyone else I donāt like the contract horford has but then I look at it and say well hell there a big chance we canāt even sign quality younger bench guys this off season with all the cap we have! All our young core is still on rookie deals with Collins contract coming up. Als contract is only for 3 more seasons thatās not that long...get horford here, make philly attach qualityĀ Ā asset with taking on Als contract that can be used in trades down the line (which I think can easily be done) and letās get the ball rolling!Ā THIS off season is our 2021 off season. Itās important we get it right as much as possible and have a bench of quality vets. Ā tl;dr I think it would be funny if he were passed around the league like a ragdoll for the remainder of his contact. I hope Philly trades him to Sac, who trades him to NYK, who trades him to Charlotte... 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, bird_dirt said: tl;dr I think it would be funny if he were passed around the league like a ragdoll for the remainder of his contact. I hope Philly trades him to Sac, who trades him to NYK, who trades him to Charlotte... Traitor Al.Ā 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Popular Post Peoriabird Posted August 16, 2020 Premium Member Popular Post Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 56 minutes ago, JTB said: Heres my point of view on the benefits of bringing Al back and I can let you know now the only negative in Alās return is his contract but even then his contract isnāt a deal breaker for me if Iām schlenk. The Contract: clearly Al is owed a large sum of money over his remaining contract. To be exact heās owed 26 - 27 mil per season over the next 3 seasons...Ā Als contract is only for 3 more seasons thatās not that long... Ā This contract is too long.Ā Schlenk would never do this! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 Alās sister Anna as she returns to the ATL. Form an orderly line please. Ā Nobody forgot ur titter Anna, Iām sorry tongue twister šŖ your twitter. Ā Ā Ā 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Popular Post JayBirdHawk Posted August 16, 2020 Premium Member Popular Post Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, JTB said: The Contract: clearly Al is owed a large sum of money over his remaining contract. To be exact heās owed 26 - 27 mil per season over the next 3 seasons...YES No. 1. If you are bringing Al into capspace and not sending out Dedmon, after signing our 2020 draft pick that leaves you with ~$8 million dollars for the rest of the roster. And if this is strictly a capspace deal, the Philly 1st (#22) alone isn't enough to eatĀ $27 mil for 3 years (last year guaranteed at $14 mil) on a declining player giving you 11points/6 rebs. 2. Have you looked at what that does to our 2021 capspace, we won't be a MAX cap team player for any top FAsĀ when you consider Collins' cap hold ($12Ā and that's if he isn't extended this offseason) plus an early extention for Trae (you need capspace to do it).Ā Yes, we can move players/money to grab Giannis if he wants to come, but it costs to do so.Ā I have no interest in mucking up our future capspace and assests for Horford. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 Great thread. I can write about 25 pages as to why Al would help this team tremendously as a 6th/7th man. As Steve Kerr called him, the perfect modern NBA center. The Hawks adding him as a 6th or 7th starter would massively change our bench as well. Look at his impact in Philly as a bench player. There bench is middle of the pack and its garbage without Al. On the same level with us if not worse. Al is an impact player. Ask Toronto, you can never have too many high quality vets who know how to win and can help you win. You see what old ass Vince did for us in year 1. Without them, we are probably going to be looking outside of the playoffs again. I hope we can get someone like Harrell, Al, etc this offseason.Ā 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said: No. 1. If you are bringing Al into capspace and not sending out Dedmon, after signing our 2020 draft pick that leaves you with ~$8 million dollars for the rest of the roster. And if this is strictly a capspace deal, the Philly 1st (#22) alone isn't enough to eatĀ $27 mil for 3 years (last year guaranteed at $14 mil) on a declining player giving you 11points/6 rebs. 2. Have you looked at what that does to our 2021 capspace, we won't be a MAX cap team player for any top FAsĀ when you consider Collins' cap hold ($12Ā and that's if he isn't extended this offseason) plus an early extention for Trae (you need capspace to do it).Ā Yes, we can move players/money to grab Giannis if he wants to come, but it costs to do so.Ā I have no interest in mucking up our future capspace and assests for Horford. 1. We got an expected 46 million with Horford on the roster next year. Obviously once you add this years picks, that number will go down, but we are still at 36-37 million not including cap holds which gives us room for the max without any trades.Ā 2. If someone like Giannis wants to come, we can find a way to sign him and keep John's cap hold. We can trade or buyout someone in portions that doesn't harm our cap. We can trade players like LAL did to complete the AD trade for salary reasons.Ā Ā You keep saying this shit as if we got idiots and high school kids as our GM and our capologist is me or some knucklehead on this site. Michelle Leftwich is one of the best in the industry. I'll say we need to jump on this. If you don't like it, just say you don't like it, don't try to use cap space in 2021 to sign Giannis as the reason. If Giannis wants to come to Atlanta. We can find a way to do that easily. While maintaining JC caphold for trade reasons. Edited August 16, 2020 by NBASupes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan2331 Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 How minutes do y'all expect Horford to play? He's doesn't bring the same impact at PF, so how many minutes can he contribute? If Capela is getting 30+ a game, trading for Horford makes less and less sense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 45 minutes ago, NBASupes said: Harrell, Al, ...sorry itās just funny having their names right next to each other. One a hungry beast looking to wreck havoc and not afraid of anyone, the other, a backstabbing ball scared biaaaatch!Ā 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 We worked for 4+ years to get the cap we want, and now yāall wanna blow it on average Al? Itās not right and you know it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrell Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, nathan2331 said: How minutes do y'all expect Horford to play? He's doesn't bring the same impact at PF, so how many minutes can he contribute? If Capela is getting 30+ a game, trading for Horford makes less and less sense. Agreed..Hes not a good PF at all imo....Hes always been a center. Just ask Woody.lol Edited August 16, 2020 by terrell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member mrhonline Posted August 16, 2020 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 Two.Ā Two-year deals.Ā Look at guys on two-year deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, mrhonline said: Two.Ā Two-year deals.Ā Look at guys on two-year deals. Must be Xmas! Thanks Ya I did a while back, nothing great out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrell Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, mrhonline said: Two.Ā Two-year deals.Ā Look at guys on two-year deals. With a team option for 2nd year.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warcore Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Spud2nique said: Iām still waiting for 2021 to land Giannis! Ā Why? He doesn't even have joosie tiddies.Ā 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 3 hours ago, nathan2331 said: How minutes do y'all expect Horford to play? He's doesn't bring the same impact at PF, so how many minutes can he contribute? If Capela is getting 30+ a game, trading for Horford makes less and less sense. 24-28 mpg.Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 2 hours ago, terrell said: Agreed..Hes not a good PF at all imo....Hes always been a center. Just ask Woody.lol He was an amazing PF in his prime, he's been primarily effective as a center in Philly. He was a PF in Boston when it was him and Baynes on the court at the same time. It didn't work with Embiid though. In Atlanta, he will be a 5 who spots at the 4 and splits mins with Skal as a backup to JC.Ā Ā 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrell Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 Just now, NBASupes said: He was an amazing PF in his prime, he's been primarily effective as a center in Philly. He was a PF in Boston when it was him and Baynes on the court at the same time. It didn't work with Embiid though. In Atlanta, he will be a 5 who spots at the 4 and splits mins with Skal as a backup to JC.Ā Ā I just cant see Travis taking on thatĀ contract with 3 years left.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now