Benefits of bringing Horford back to ATL (long thread)

[JayBirdHawk]

7 hours ago, Wretch said:

I haven't read a single post on this thread. I'd rather see Trae walk than see us succeed with Al.

Yep.

Nope.

There it is ladies and gentlemen, The Wretch has spoken. 

[ATLHawks3]

If Philly attached 3 unprotected 1st's to Al, I'd do it.

[marco102]

22 minutes ago, ATLHawks3 said:

If Philly attached 3 unprotected 1st's to Al, I'd do it.

Still wouldn't.

[terrell]

20 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I think Trae is amazing but he's not a MVP candidate right now. I don't like his PG skills. I think he's the best playmaker I've ever seen but when it comes to running an offense. I am very unimpressed. Him and LaMelo but have the biggest gap I've seen from PG skills and playmaking there is. Luka has more PG skill and he doesn't have much either. Watch Lowry, watch how he runs an offense. Lin ran an offense better than Trae and he's no natural PG either. That's what I expect honestly from him to improve. I used to be hard af on Jeff Teague who I loved but he had trouble running an offense. Look at what he became at some point, solid at PG skills. I want to see that jump from Trae but I know he doesn't have to do it as he's so good at what he's good at which is an extreme blend of scoring and playmaking. 

I don't even like Luka. I hate his fans with a passion. I mean hate them and would slap them in person but I can't lie, he's a beast. I would love to have him here if he was the pick and honestly, he should have been the pick for us. He's much better than Trae. 

This team is much younger but you can't expect to win just because they are getting older and we got Capela. 

Capela is the player I do expect a lot from. He's our impact guy outside of Trae but this ain't a great fit with him and John. John struggles at the 4 in space. I've seen in time and time again and John always says he going to be good and works at it. Occasionally shows the lateral ability but he's always mentally late on defense. Capela was just playing with one of the best and most versatlite defenders in P.J. Tucker who just gets it.  Offensively, I can see them getting in each other's way. That's what Jones and Collins did although Capela is superior to Jones in every way. I realize, John needs a lot of space due to his lack of self creation. He needs space as he's an efficient type. 

I don't know. Orlando got a good team. Philly should have a good team. The rest of the playoff teams are very good or excellent. We really gotta make a massive jump as a team. We can make that jump individually and still not make that jump collectively. So much is needed to win games and we as a team really don't know how to win games in the 82 game grind. 

We will see. I'll wait till the draft and FA. I need to see what we add. Haliburton or Toppin can change my scope on the squad. Those are impact rookies who can add legit depth and bench help. Getting good bench pieces is key. Let's see what TS can do first but I keep hearing Jami, LP, JC, Trae talking about where we gonna be next year and it just don't only take hard work. You gotta have the right vets as well as well as right rookies. 

 

Luka with the Hawks roster last season +  LP  is a bad team too..Just sayin..

[terrell]

20 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I think Trae is amazing but he's not a MVP candidate right now. I don't like his PG skills. I think he's the best playmaker I've ever seen but when it comes to running an offense. I am very unimpressed. Him and LaMelo but have the biggest gap I've seen from PG skills and playmaking there is. Luka has more PG skill and he doesn't have much either. Watch Lowry, watch how he runs an offense. Lin ran an offense better than Trae and he's no natural PG either. That's what I expect honestly from him to improve. I used to be hard af on Jeff Teague who I loved but he had trouble running an offense. Look at what he became at some point, solid at PG skills. I want to see that jump from Trae but I know he doesn't have to do it as he's so good at what he's good at which is an extreme blend of scoring and playmaking. 

I don't even like Luka. I hate his fans with a passion. I mean hate them and would slap them in person but I can't lie, he's a beast. I would love to have him here if he was the pick and honestly, he should have been the pick for us. He's much better than Trae. 

This team is much younger but you can't expect to win just because they are getting older and we got Capela. 

Capela is the player I do expect a lot from. He's our impact guy outside of Trae but this ain't a great fit with him and John. John struggles at the 4 in space. I've seen in time and time again and John always says he going to be good and works at it. Occasionally shows the lateral ability but he's always mentally late on defense. Capela was just playing with one of the best and most versatlite defenders in P.J. Tucker who just gets it.  Offensively, I can see them getting in each other's way. That's what Jones and Collins did although Capela is superior to Jones in every way. I realize, John needs a lot of space due to his lack of self creation. He needs space as he's an efficient type. 

I don't know. Orlando got a good team. Philly should have a good team. The rest of the playoff teams are very good or excellent. We really gotta make a massive jump as a team. We can make that jump individually and still not make that jump collectively. So much is needed to win games and we as a team really don't know how to win games in the 82 game grind. 

We will see. I'll wait till the draft and FA. I need to see what we add. Haliburton or Toppin can change my scope on the squad. Those are impact rookies who can add legit depth and bench help. Getting good bench pieces is key. Let's see what TS can do first but I keep hearing Jami, LP, JC, Trae talking about where we gonna be next year and it just don't only take hard work. You gotta have the right vets as well as well as right rookies. 

 

Kyle Lowry has been in the league for 15 years.....

[ATLHawks3]

13 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Still wouldn't.

You're right. Dedmon for Horford, Thybulle, and 4 unprotected 1st's. 

 

Nevermind, they traded their first round picks to the Clippers for Tobias Harris. 

 

Yeah I'm not touching a regressing Horford for 28 million for the next 3 years.

Edited August 20, 2020 by ATLHawks3

[Wretch]

All Horford threads should be immediately locked.

Fudge that guy.

[terrell]

21 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I think Trae is amazing but he's not a MVP candidate right now. I don't like his PG skills. I think he's the best playmaker I've ever seen but when it comes to running an offense. I am very unimpressed. Him and LaMelo but have the biggest gap I've seen from PG skills and playmaking there is. Luka has more PG skill and he doesn't have much either. Watch Lowry, watch how he runs an offense. Lin ran an offense better than Trae and he's no natural PG either. That's what I expect honestly from him to improve. I used to be hard af on Jeff Teague who I loved but he had trouble running an offense. Look at what he became at some point, solid at PG skills. I want to see that jump from Trae but I know he doesn't have to do it as he's so good at what he's good at which is an extreme blend of scoring and playmaking. 

I don't even like Luka. I hate his fans with a passion. I mean hate them and would slap them in person but I can't lie, he's a beast. I would love to have him here if he was the pick and honestly, he should have been the pick for us. He's much better than Trae. 

This team is much younger but you can't expect to win just because they are getting older and we got Capela. 

Capela is the player I do expect a lot from. He's our impact guy outside of Trae but this ain't a great fit with him and John. John struggles at the 4 in space. I've seen in time and time again and John always says he going to be good and works at it. Occasionally shows the lateral ability but he's always mentally late on defense. Capela was just playing with one of the best and most versatlite defenders in P.J. Tucker who just gets it.  Offensively, I can see them getting in each other's way. That's what Jones and Collins did although Capela is superior to Jones in every way. I realize, John needs a lot of space due to his lack of self creation. He needs space as he's an efficient type. 

I don't know. Orlando got a good team. Philly should have a good team. The rest of the playoff teams are very good or excellent. We really gotta make a massive jump as a team. We can make that jump individually and still not make that jump collectively. So much is needed to win games and we as a team really don't know how to win games in the 82 game grind. 

We will see. I'll wait till the draft and FA. I need to see what we add. Haliburton or Toppin can change my scope on the squad. Those are impact rookies who can add legit depth and bench help. Getting good bench pieces is key. Let's see what TS can do first but I keep hearing Jami, LP, JC, Trae talking about where we gonna be next year and it just don't only take hard work. You gotta have the right vets as well as well as right rookies. 

 

Hunter can play the PJ Tucker role .....If he fits better with Capela..We can trade John on draft night for another 1st. Then Take Toppin AND Haliburton.. You happy? lol

Edited August 20, 2020 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, terrell said:

Hunter can play the PJ Tucker role .....If he fits better with Capela..We can trade John on draft night for another 1st. Then Take Toppin AND Haliburton.. You happy? lol

Which draft? This one? I'm not trading JC for any of the bums in this draft   

[terrell]

44 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Which draft? This one? I'm not trading JC for any of the bums in this draft   

Im not either. That was for Supes..

[RedDawg#8]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

Kyle Lowry has been in the league for 15 years.....

And wasnt much to write home about for the first few years.

I get his point though, and it is something for Trae to continue to learn and grow as well defense. Basically just overall BBIQ

[AHF]

15 hours ago, ATLHawks3 said:

You're right. Dedmon for Horford, Thybulle, and 4 unprotected 1st's. 

 

Nevermind, they traded their first round picks to the Clippers for Tobias Harris. 

 

Yeah I'm not touching a regressing Horford for 28 million for the next 3 years.

That Tobias Harris move and resign was such a mistake.  And it was a clear mistake on its face from the moment it happened.  Philly GMs should thank their lucky stars that they got to enjoy the benefits of the tanking process with great picks and two studs because they have been an absolute mess since then. So many big mistakes.

[AHF]

For me, Al is still a valuable guy.  When he was in Boston, he was still a standout player.  Today he has dropped off from the level he was at with us and the Celtics.  Everyone seems to agree he won't be worth his money but the bigger question is whether his numbers were down this year more because of being used in a less than optimal way and/or because age is catching up and his play is slipping.  He had his worst metrics last year since his rookie season but they weren't so far off that it is his funeral or anything.  It was a bad year for him but the key is whether it is a trend or a bad year.

He'll be 34 next season so will his play continue to degrade or should he be able to give similar production from this year?  In the right situation, current Al is still valuable.  He still can defend, he can still stretch the floor and he is still an outstanding passer at his position.  He clearly doesn't do those things well enough to be worth $28M but he turns toxic if his play meaningfully degrades over the next couple of years.

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

For me, Al is still a valuable guy.  When he was in Boston, he was still a standout player.  Today he has dropped off from the level he was at with us and the Celtics.  Everyone seems to agree he won't be worth his money but the bigger question is whether his numbers were down this year more because of being used in a less than optimal way and/or because age is catching up and his play is slipping.  He had his worst metrics last year since his rookie season but they weren't so far off that it is his funeral or anything.  It was a bad year for him but the key is whether it is a trend or a bad year.

He'll be 34 next season so will his play continue to degrade or should he be able to give similar production from this year?  In the right situation, current Al is still valuable.  He still can defend, he can still stretch the floor and he is still an outstanding passer at his position.  He clearly doesn't do those things well enough to be worth $28M but he turns toxic if his play meaningfully degrades over the next couple of years.

He’s on his last leg. I think he breaks down with nagging injuries from here on out and is never the same. He can contribute about 15 minutes moving forward but it’s over for him as a starter in my mind. He has to be like an 8th man soon.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

He’s on his last leg. I think he breaks down with nagging injuries from here on out and is never the same. He can contribute about 15 minutes moving forward but it’s over for him as a starter in my mind. He has to be like an 8th man soon.

I can see that but if it wasn't for salary I could see him doing quite well on a team like Miami.  It isn't a foregone conclusion to me that he is toast.

But it is a foregone conclusion to me that he doesn't fit on the Hawks regardless of what his play does.

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

But it is a foregone conclusion to me that he doesn't fit on the Hawks regardless of what his play does.

Yes I agree. He might have a little left in Miami. If I’m him I go to the Suns and spend the weekends flying to P3 in Santa Barbara every weekend. That might add a a few years and help his body.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I can see that but if it wasn't for salary I could see him doing quite well on a team like Miami.  It isn't a foregone conclusion to me that he is toast.

But it is a foregone conclusion to me that he doesn't fit on the Hawks regardless of what his play does.

If the Amnesty rule is reintroduced. I take no issue having him back for the vet min.

[NBASupes]

20 hours ago, terrell said:

Hunter can play the PJ Tucker role .....If he fits better with Capela..We can trade John on draft night for another 1st. Then Take Toppin AND Haliburton.. You happy? lol

Hunter is not P.J. Tucker. He's more like Battier and Artest. There is no Tucker other than Tucker

[NBASupes]

19 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Which draft? This one? I'm not trading JC for any of the bums in this draft   

They aren't bums but naw, I am not trading John at this time. 

[JayBirdHawk]

42 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

They aren't bums but naw, I am not trading John at this time. 

Lol. Yeah I know. Just not enamoured with anyone like the Trae draft and last years draft.

I think the shortened college season and the long pause adds more reason to pick apart the prospects.