Who do you want at #6?

[marco102]

17 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Thank you. I haven’t seen a single Toppin defensive highlight anywhere.

I have and they are all offensive!

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[NBASupes]

Try watching full games instead of highlights for starters 

[marco102]

53 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Try watching full games instead of highlights for starters 

Is this in reference to Toppin's defense? 

Toppin has tight hips which means unless he gets more flexible I don't see him getting much better defending in space.  That's the main reason I'm not as high on Toppin as you. 

On the offensive side, he can be good, but I don't see him having that big of an impact his first year. Maybe the second half, but not immediately. 

I just don't see a generational offensive player with him.  I see a solid one, but not generational. 

[NBASupes]

21 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Is this in reference to Toppin's defense? 

Toppin has tight hips which means unless he gets more flexible I don't see him getting much better defending in space.  That's the main reason I'm not as high on Toppin as you. 

On the offensive side, he can be good, but I don't see him having that big of an impact his first year. Maybe the second half, but not immediately. 

I just don't see a generational offensive player with him.  I see a solid one, but not generational. 

Being a defensive playmaker is about instincts and BBIQ, not just physical attributes. There is a reason Korver was good for our defensive metrics when he didn't have the physical attributes needed to be an impact player on that end. 

We finally agree on something. I too don't see him being this massive impact out the gate offensively, it takes time to adjust as a big but usually by the 3rd month (December), we see bigs make that leap. 

Generational depends on your situation, your personnel, and most importantly, you. I wouldn't put generational on anyone other than Zion or Bron before they step on the court on one end of the court. I wouldn't put it on Steph or Lillard as prospects either. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by NBASupes

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Being a defensive playmaker is about instincts and BBIQ, not just physical attributes. There is a reason Korver was good for our defensive metrics when he didn't have the physical attributes needed to be an impact player on that end. 

We finally agree on something. I too don't see him being this massive impact out the gate offensively, it takes time to adjust as a big but usually by the 3rd month (December), we see bigs make that leap. 

Generational depends on your situation, your personnel, and most importantly, you. I wouldn't put generational on anyone other than Zion or Bron before they step on the court on one end of the court. I wouldn't put it on Steph or Lillard as prospects either. 

I could be confused, but I was pretty sure you were referencing Toppin as a generational offensive player.  Could just me misremebering the adjective  you used to describe him. 

I don't see BBIQ on the defensive end for Toppin when i've watched a few of his full games. I'm not saying it can't be learned. I'm just saying unless he changes his defensive technique he's going to be rough on defense his first few years.

[gurpilo]

hace 20 minutos, marco102 dijo:

Is this in reference to Toppin's defense? 

Toppin has tight hips which means unless he gets more flexible I don't see him getting much better defending in space.  That's the main reason I'm not as high on Toppin as you. 

On the offensive side, he can be good, but I don't see him having that big of an impact his first year. Maybe the second half, but not immediately. 

I just don't see a generational offensive player with him.  I see a solid one, but not generational. 

Toppin is already a sophomore, he is 22,5 years old. We had similar expectations with Hunter last year and we all know what happenned.

If something should be compared would be Toppin first year to this year's freshman stats and he is not top 10 if you do it, even with that he was one year older than most.

Okongwu is 3 years younger and has posted similar stats as Toppin this season, adv stats as well. His upside is much bigger and he offers what we lack.

Hawks should have the choice clear.

[marco102]

Just now, gurpilo said:

Toppin is already a sophomore, he is 22,5 years old. We had similar expectations with Hunter last year and we all know what happenned.

If something should be compared would be Toppin first year to this year's freshman stats and he is not top 10 if you do it, even with that he was one year older than most.

Okongwu is 3 years younger and has posted similar stats as Toppin this season, adv stats as well. His upside is much bigger and he offers what we lack.

Hawks should have the choice clear.

Can Okongwu shoot?

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, marco102 said:

I have and they are all offensive!

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I could be confused, but I was pretty sure you were referencing Toppin as a generational offensive player.  Could just me misremebering the adjective  you used to describe him. 

I don't see BBIQ on the defensive end for Toppin when i've watched a few of his full games. I'm not saying it can't be learned. I'm just saying unless he changes his defensive technique he's going to be rough on defense his first few years.

Generational should only be used for talent, potential, or what is. 

Steph Curry is a generational basketball player, shooter, and PG. - what is

Zion Williamson has generational potential - potential 

Cam Reddish has generational talent- talent

You generally don't use generational where its not needed. Obi has to prove what he proved at the next level like Steph and Dame did 

 

[NBASupes]

17 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

Toppin is already a sophomore, he is 22,5 years old. We had similar expectations with Hunter last year and we all know what happenned.

If something should be compared would be Toppin first year to this year's freshman stats and he is not top 10 if you do it, even with that he was one year older than most.

Okongwu is 3 years younger and has posted similar stats as Toppin this season, adv stats as well. His upside is much bigger and he offers what we lack.

Hawks should have the choice clear.

I would like to find those people with those expectations for Hunter because it wasn't me. As high as I was on Hunter as a prospect for US. I was the main person saying it would take at least a year for him to adjust to the SF position @AHF, and @JayBirdHawk can you confirm?

You really shouldn't use age as a discrimination tool on Toppin. His growth curve is still fairly young due to his late growth spurt and body development. Development wise, he's on par with a 18 to 19 year old. He's not a Hunter or Vassell where he is his age. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by NBASupes

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Bump

[marco102]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Generational should only be used for talent, potential, or what is. 

Steph Curry is a generational basketball player, shooter, and PG. - what is

Zion Williamson has generational potential - potential 

Cam Reddish has generational talent- talent

You generally don't use generational where its not needed. Obi has to prove what he proved at the next level like Steph and Dame did 

 

 I agree with you 100%, he's not generational. I believe this (the bolded) is what most of us were saying when you were upset about John and his contract and describing Toppin early in the summer.

Edited August 22, 2020 by marco102

[Spud2nique]

40 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I see a solid one,

I don’t even see that. He’s a 7th man at best. I’m guessing he won’t crack a starting unit in the first 2 years. But it depends on where he lands.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

 I agree with you 100%, he's not generational. I believe this is what most of us were saying when you were upset about John and his contract and describing Toppin early in the summer.

I am over my JC frustration now that I now Atlanta see him the way I do financially. So I am back to neutral on him. That said, my opinions on Toppin are just straight forward. I wish you wouldn't turn this into a JC v. Toppin thing because JC is a Hawk, Toppin isn't 

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am over my JC frustration now that I now Atlanta see him the way I do financially. So I am back to neutral on him. That said, my opinions on Toppin are just straight forward. I wish you wouldn't turn this into a JC v. Toppin thing because JC is a Hawk, Toppin isn't 

It's not a JC vs Toppin thing. It was you saying what you said. I never saw a JC vs Toppin thing in the first place because I never saw Toppin being as good as JC or a viable replacement.

I only brought JC to give you a reference of when I was referring.

Edited August 22, 2020 by marco102

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, marco102 said:

It's not a JC vs Toppin thing. It was you saying what you said. I never saw a JC vs Toppin thing in the first place because I never saw Toppin being as good as JC.

You don't have to. The question was sent to me. Obi is a much better prospect than John was. Why?

Higher BBIQ

Feel for the game

Movement skills

Shooting

Playmaking 

Finishing

Ball handling 

Defense altogether 

Explosiveness 

Dunking

Just about everything but offensive rebounding 

Now, the case for JC is, right now, he is better and they are near the same age. My case is, that's reasonable but they are not at the same stage of development, age isn't the mark development, it's your growth charts. 

There is no way we can compare NBA 3rd year John to Obi out of college. John is a season pro. He's established and has been successful in some ways. You can't compare that to ANY prospect. 

I refuse too. 

What I will compare is how they play. What Obi is capable of? 

What's the difference between JC and Obi right now. 

There is no way in hell I or anyone can say Obi is better or as good as a NBA professional like John. But what I can say is, this is what Obi can do. This is what John does. That's it. I can also give my projections as well. You don't have to like it. That's the great thing about free speech. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by NBASupes

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 

There is no way we can compare NBA 3rd year John to Obi out of college. John is a season pro. He's established and has been successful in some ways. You can't compare that to ANY prospect. 

I refuse too. 

What I will compare is how they play. What Obi is capable of? 

What's the difference between JC and Obi right now. 

There is no way in hell I or anyone can say Obi is better or as good as a NBA professional like John. But what I can say is, this is what Obi can do. This is what John does. That's it. I can also give my projections as well. You don't have to like it. That's the great thing about free speech. 

Bro, this is literally what you were doing when you were frustrated. If you want me to go back and pull up the reciepts I will.  We were trying to tell you, what you were saying didn't make sense and said the bolded to you.

Now that you've cooled off, it doesn't appear that you remember, but I'll go dig it up if you want me to.  

It wasn't about me trying to pull up receipts on you. It was simply agreeing that Obi wasn't a generational talent which we agreed on and should just leave it at that.

Edited August 22, 2020 by marco102

[NBASupes]

Just now, marco102 said:

Bro, this is literally what you were doing when you were frustrated. If you want me to go back and pull up the reciepts I will.  We were trying to tell you, what you were saying didn't make sense and said the bolded to you.

Now that you've cooled off, it doesn't appear that you remember, but I'll go dig it up if you want me to.  

It wasn't about me trying to pull up receipts on you. It was simply agreeing that Obi wasn't a generational talent which we agreed on and should just leave it at that.

There is no way I would be frustrated with that exact take.

The only Hawk I think is a generational talent is Cam.

[bleachkit]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

There is no way I would be frustrated with that exact take.

The only Hawk I think is a generational talent is Cam.

More talented in your opinion, C. Reddish or A.Edwards?