Donovan Mitchell is why you don't pass on Obi Toppin

[kg01]

45 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I think Toppin's post defense will be ok because of his length.  Plus a JC/Toppin would run a slower F/C combo out of the gym.

His high center of gravity will betray him as a post defender.  He won't be able to hold his spot 

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

His high center of gravity will betray him as a post defender.  He won't be able to hold his spot 

That line up won't be deployed to preserve a lead late in the 4th but it would be quite effective against back ups and certain teams.

[RedDawg#8]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He's an offensive mix of Al Horford, Amar'e, JC, and Blake Griffin as PROSPECTS. Not players in their prime. 

Horford - BBIQ, movement IQ, feel for the game, passing, vision, PnP potential, risk taking passes, ability to run numerous actions and scheme versatile. - His most important comparison. 

Amar'e - Quickness, First step, explosiveness, Agility, Speed, Size, Movement, Body Type, Frame. 

JC - Rim running, finishing, and PnR potential. 

Griffin - Passing out of the post, Aggressiveness attacking the rim, open court handles

 

His fit will be playing Jabari Parker's old role as the 6th/7th man in year 1. Simple as that. 

The Griffin attributes are most important if you ask me. We need a post threat that can pass out.

Im cool with those comps as it gives me good visuals. And I agree with filling the role Jabari had for us as a ball handling big that could get his own shot attacking the rim.

I do see him as a stiff though with tight hips and no wiggle, which I think neutralizes any open court ball handling you think he can bring. Especially at this level. Everything else is gravy. 

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, nathan2331 said:

Let me ask you, what happens when we play the Celtics, and they got Tatum at the 4? Or the Sixers with Harris, Simmons and Embiid at center? Giannis at the 4? You're not running their teams off the court. We've seen Collins limitations, not sure how doubling down on them makes us a better basketball team. We might score a lot of points but again, we won't be forcing many stops.

As a backup, Grant is good enough. I have a very hard time understanding how Grant would be a disaster in Atlanta, but has been fine for the Nuggets, and the Thunder a year before. Grant can run too, even if he can't dribble since y'all think we're going to run circles around teams.

He would be a backup year 1 so he would be going against their backups but assuming he's going against Tatum, Giannis, or any big, they can't guard him 1v1. 

Guys like Grant have to go to the right system. Role players aren't plugable. System fit matters with them.

Edited September 1, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

8 hours ago, kg01 said:

His high center of gravity will betray him as a post defender.  He won't be able to hold his spot 

High center of gravity hasn't stopped many big men from being good post defenders. Many big men suffer from this worse than Toppin

[nathan2331]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He would be a backup year 1 so he would be going against their backups but assuming he's going against Tatum, Giannis, or any big, they can't guard him 1v1. 

Guys like Grant have to go to the right system. Role players aren't plugable. System fit matters with them.

Our system is not that complicated for a big man. Grant isn't useless with the ball in his hands. You really trying to tell me he can't take one dribble and hand the ball off to someone curling around him? The bigs on our team hardly ever have to make difficult reads. Again, I have a hard time believing he couldn't work in Atlanta considering most teams in the NBA are running similar plays. Pierce didn't reinvent the wheel with us.

And I really don't think your recognizing how bad of a fit Toppin and Collins would be in the frontcourt but honestly it doesn't matter. Edwards is the only guy I want in this draft, if we can't land him I'm fine with whoever at 6.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Our system is not that complicated for a big man. Grant isn't useless with the ball in his hands. You really trying to tell me he can't take one dribble and hand the ball off to someone curling around him? The bigs on our team hardly ever have to make difficult reads. Again, I have a hard time believing he couldn't work in Atlanta considering most teams in the NBA are running similar plays. Pierce didn't reinvent the wheel with us.

And I really don't think your recognizing how bad of a fit Toppin and Collins would be in the frontcourt but honestly it doesn't matter. Edwards is the only guy I want in this draft, if we can't land him I'm fine with whoever at 6.

This is where you are extremely wrong. We put a lot of responsibility on our bigs which is why Dedmon fit Atlanta and struggled to fit Sacramento where it's all about pace, finishing, and covering ground which is a team that would be a good fit for Grant. We haven't ran an low responsibility based system for bigs since Lon Kruger. Woody wasn't big on offensive responsibility based system but defensively, he had the most advanced system which is why it was a natural fit for Bud. 

You keep trying to argue something that isn't there. He's not a good fit at all. He would be a waste for us. Teams like Sacramento and OKC fits him fine, teams like us, no. Reactive players look like shit in our system. We are a proactive system for bigs. 

I don't really see them as a frontcourt fit outside of situational moments. We already got centers. I do see Toppin being a much better fit with Capela than Collins due to them taking the same spots on offense while Toppin doesn't take Capela spots like JC does. On defense, both are damn near the same to Capela so it's not much of a difference. 

I don't know why you are so against Toppin. He's an offensive monster and fits our system perfectly. He would be a backup this year anyway and he gives us protection for JC. A freaking no brainer. 

[thecampster]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

High center of gravity hasn't stopped many big men from being good post defenders. Many big men suffer from this worse than Toppin

cough cough Len cough cough.

[thecampster]

59 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Our system is not that complicated for a big man. Grant isn't useless with the ball in his hands. You really trying to tell me he can't take one dribble and hand the ball off to someone curling around him? The bigs on our team hardly ever have to make difficult reads. Again, I have a hard time believing he couldn't work in Atlanta considering most teams in the NBA are running similar plays. Pierce didn't reinvent the wheel with us.

And I really don't think your recognizing how bad of a fit Toppin and Collins would be in the frontcourt but honestly it doesn't matter. Edwards is the only guy I want in this draft, if we can't land him I'm fine with whoever at 6.

You see that's crazy to me.....Edwards is the one guy I don't want in the draft because I see him as redundant and in need of serious polish.

For me it would go Wiseman, Ball, Toppin at the top 3. Edwards is more of a 6-8 player to me. He is far too ball dominant and requires a high volume of shots. Edwards next to Sexton in Cleveland is the perfect fit to me. Someone who could take 10 touches a game out of his hand and iso.

Edwards really, really needs to spend a year working on drawing contact. That is where his money would be made at the next level.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, thecampster said:

You see that's crazy to me.....Edwards is the one guy I don't want in the draft because I see him as redundant and in need of serious polish.

For me it would go Wiseman, Ball, Toppin at the top 3. Edwards is more of a 6-8 player to me. He is far too ball dominant and requires a high volume of shots. Edwards next to Sexton in Cleveland is the perfect fit to me. Someone who could take 10 touches a game out of his hand and iso.

Edwards really, really needs to spend a year working on drawing contact. That is where his money would be made at the next level.

I don't like his starting lineup fit. I do think having an scorer like him off the bench has real value even in year 1

[Peoriabird]

28 minutes ago, thecampster said:

For me it would go Wiseman, Ball, Toppin at the top 3.

If Wiseman is there, I'm taking him!

[thecampster]

41 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

If Wiseman is there, I'm taking him!

I can dream but reality tells me you aren't getting Wiseman without trading up to at least 2.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

I can dream but reality tells me you aren't getting Wiseman without trading up to at least 2.

I have my doubts on James but with us, you know he would be a 3rd stringer as a rookie and a backup in year 2. He would get to develop like he needs to develop. 

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I can dream but reality tells me you aren't getting Wiseman without trading up to at least 2.

If GM's were getting advise from Brad Rowland and crew he would easily fall outside the top 6.  In their little mock draft Rowland took Vassell over both Wiseman and Toppin! LOL!

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

If GM's were getting advise from Brad Rowland and crew he would easily fall outside the top 6.  In their little mock draft Rowland took Vassell over both Wiseman and Toppin! LOL!

Ugh.  Maybe I'm underestimating Vassell but I would be super pissed to see this scenario play out.

[thecampster]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I have my doubts on James but with us, you know he would be a 3rd stringer as a rookie and a backup in year 2. He would get to develop like he needs to develop. 

80% of what he needs is 20-25 lbs of muscle...most of that in the lower half. That would fix most of his weaknesses.
 

Just now, AHF said:

Ugh.  Maybe I'm underestimating Vassell but I would be super pissed to see this scenario play out.

pissed if Wiseman fell to 6?

 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, AHF said:

Ugh.  Maybe I'm underestimating Vassell but I would be super pissed to see this scenario play out.

Okungwu was on the board also!  LOL!

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

80% of what he needs is 20-25 lbs of muscle...most of that in the lower half. That would fix most of his weaknesses.
 

pissed if Wiseman fell to 6?

 

He's 245, he doesn't need to get much bigger. 

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

If GM's were getting advise from Brad Rowland and crew he would easily fall outside the top 6.  In their little mock draft Rowland took Vassell over both Wiseman and Toppin! LOL!

Lol, Vassell would be the biggest fail ever for us. He would never break the big 3 wings. 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Lol, Vassell would be the biggest fail ever for us. He would never break the big 3 wings. 

Rowland has to be the dumbest wannabe NBA expert ever!