Draft Combine News and Notes

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

[NBASupes]

Those workouts are a big deal tho

[Dean Walker]

Very interesting to see how this is going to work.

[bleachkit]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Those workouts are a big deal tho

Why aren't they allowing work outs? I dont understand.

[AHF]

On 9/12/2020 at 6:03 PM, bleachkit said:

Why aren't they allowing work outs? I dont understand.

Probably trying to implement some type of 'bubble'-esque level of safety for the prospects and finding that challenging to do.

[kg01]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

Probably trying to implement some type of 'bubble'-esque level of safety for the prospects and finding that challenging to do.

I wonder if this is because the prospects aren't part of the CBA.

I was thinking a combine is already bubble-esque so it would seem like an easy thing to situate.  However, since the players aren't covered by the CBA iiuc, the league can't agree on the rules governing their comings/goings I guess.

Wonder why they can't just test them incoming, stage them, then work out a workout format all teams can attend (since their comings/goings can be governed)?  No need to make it as fancy as the ORL campus is.

[Dean Walker]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I wonder if this is because the prospects aren't part of the CBA.

I was thinking a combine is already bubble-esque so it would seem like an easy thing to situate.  However, since the players aren't covered by the CBA iiuc, the league can't agree on the rules governing their comings/goings I guess.

Wonder why they can't just test them incoming, stage them, then work out a workout format all teams can attend (since their comings/goings can be governed)?  No need to make it as fancy as the ORL campus is.

Yeah totally agree.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I wonder if this is because the prospects aren't part of the CBA.

I was thinking a combine is already bubble-esque so it would seem like an easy thing to situate.  However, since the players aren't covered by the CBA iiuc, the league can't agree on the rules governing their comings/goings I guess.

Wonder why they can't just test them incoming, stage them, then work out a workout format all teams can attend (since their comings/goings can be governed)?  No need to make it as fancy as the ORL campus is.

The NBA bubble has a tight control over everyone involved.  So if you have someone on the Celtics playing against someone on the Pacers or Sixers, etc. you know every player from those rosters has been isolated and tested in a way that should ensure a safe environment.  

For prospects, you don't have that level of control over any of them.  The live and train with people who are not in a bubble environment and then you are talking about them working out with people who are equally uncontrolled.  You'd need to relocate them all for an extended stay and create some type of isolated environment to get that done.  And this would be for people who currently live in a variety of different countries, etc.  It would almost certainly have to be in the US because US citizens aren't allowed to travel to most of the world but some of the prospects are from France, Israel, Serbia, etc.

[bleachkit]

Is it really about safety at this point? It feels more like this is about optics, leverage and legal one upmanship. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

Is it really about safety at this point? It feels more like this is about optics, leverage and legal one upmanship. 

I think it is a combination of issues with the prospects not being employees of the NBA but being represented by the player's union complicating things further.  If the prospects all consent, then that would seem workable but that would be an individual decision for each of them and their agents.

Legally, you could certainly find states where it would be legal to have prospects working out together if they consented.  Agents would certainly try to work it to their client's advantage like they always do but with this additional level of complexity on top.  Like Wiseman chose not to play this season for safety / risk reasons even before Covid.  Would he be willing to work out with others now?  I have no idea.

[kg01]

12 minutes ago, AHF said:

The NBA bubble has a tight control over everyone involved.  So if you have someone on the Celtics playing against someone on the Pacers or Sixers, etc. you know every player from those rosters has been isolated and tested in a way that should ensure a safe environment.  

For prospects, you don't have that level of control over any of them.  The live and train with people who are not in a bubble environment and then you are talking about them working out with people who are equally uncontrolled.  You'd need to relocate them all for an extended stay and create some type of isolated environment to get that done.  And this would be for people who currently live in a variety of different countries, etc.  It would almost certainly have to be in the US because US citizens aren't allowed to travel to most of the world but some of the prospects are from France, Israel, Serbia, etc.

That's kinda what I'm getting at.  Bring them in, from all their weird environs, test the player, stage the player until results are confirmed, then you have only clean players vs clean players.

The issue, as you so astutely point out, is they'd probably need all their hangers-on standing on the sidelines telling them "You killed that run, bro." as if they can't stand on their own two feet for a game of 21.

Do you think the handlers would let the player enter the bubble alone if it was for eligibility to be drafted?  That'd be the only way to "seal the combine bubble".

14 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Is it really about safety at this point? It feels more like this is about optics, leverage and legal one upmanship. 

It can be both (well, "all").

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think it is a combination of issues with the prospects not being employees of the NBA but being represented by the player's union complicating things further.  If the prospects all consent, then that would seem workable but that would be an individual decision for each of them and their agents.

Legally, you could certainly find states where it would be legal to have prospects working out together if they consented.  Agents would certainly try to work it to their client's advantage like they always do but with this additional level of complexity on top.  Like Wiseman chose not to play this season for safety / risk reasons even before Covid.  Would he be willing to work out with others now?  I have no idea.

What states would it be illegal? Almost all the shelter in place orders have been lifted as far as I know. Gyms by and large are open throughout the country. 

[bleachkit]

If a prospect says "I can't work out for you, it's too dangerous right now." That's not a good look, and probably will hurt their draft stock. This is a job interview, you have to show you're qualified for the job. You haven't even been drafted and are already trying to weasel out of playing basketball. Maybe some other line of work would be more to your liking.

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

If a prospect says "I can't work out for you, it's too dangerous right now." That's not a good look, and probably will hurt their draft stock. This is a job interview, you have to show you're qualified for the job. You haven't even been drafted and are already trying to weasel out of playing basketball. Maybe some other line of work would be more to your liking.

Players have sometimes opted out of work outs, they'll do combine measurements but won't do workouts on advice of their agents so it doesn't affect draft position, or if they got a promise from another team, etc. Last year, Hunter only worked out for the Hawks, declined all others.

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Players have sometimes opted out of work outs, they'll do combine measurements but won't do workouts on advice of their agents so it doesn't affect draft position, or if they got a promise from another team, etc. Last year, Hunter only worked out for the Hawks, declined all others.

OK fine, But dont use Covid as a lame excuse. Last year Hunter's reps knew he wasn't cracking the top three. This year it's extremely fluid, surprising more guys don't want to bet on themselves.

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

If a prospect says "I can't work out for you, it's too dangerous right now." That's not a good look, and probably will hurt their draft stock. This is a job interview, you have to show you're qualified for the job. You haven't even been drafted and are already trying to weasel out of playing basketball. Maybe some other line of work would be more to your liking.

You should be aware that guys refuse to workout for teams every draft.

Or perhaps you are aware but have a different agenda permeating this current conversation? 

[bleachkit]

Just now, kg01 said:

You should be aware that guys refuse to workout for teams every draft.

Or perhaps you are aware but have a different agenda permeating this current conversation? 

That's their choice, but dont cry Covid. Obviously it's about getting to your desired draft destination.

[bleachkit]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You should be aware that guys refuse to workout for teams every draft.

Or perhaps you are aware but have a different agenda permeating this current conversation? 

My agenda is having the Hawks organization getting the information needed to make an informed draft selection, of which a very important part is workouts. Does that agenda bother you?

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

My agenda is having the Hawks organization getting the information needed to make an informed draft selection, of which a very important part is workouts. Does that agenda bother you?

Yeah ok.