Trae Young and The Narrative

[marco102]

Hey, all.  I hope you had a great turkey day.  In my turkey day boredom, I've been surfing the web, listening to a few podcasts, watching YouTube vids, and browsing Twitter.  In the Hawks related content, I've noticed, that the narrative has now shift for the Hawks.  Last year, the Hawks were trash and they needed to get help, and Trae Young's stats didn't lead to winning.  Now, the narrative is, well the Hawks may have added players, they don't have enough defense, they will ONLY be an 8th seed and get swept in the first round. How's that good for a young core? There's too many mouths to feed.  Mind you, Luka took a mediocre Mavs team to the 7th seed last year and he was 2nd team  all NBA and in MVP voting.  

I just think if Trae gets the Hawks to the 6th seed in the East and the playoffs, the narrative will be that he couldn't get them past the first round, it's the East, and with all the talent the Hawks have, he should have made them a top 4 seed, if he's a true superstar.  

Do you guys believe Trae will get the same respect/accolades as his draftmate if the Hawks are a 5th or 6th seed in the East and he shows improved efficiency, slightly better defensively, and 1 less turnover a game? 

[Diesel]

no.

They view Luka as Transcendent already.   They don't and will probably never have that same respect for Trae.   That's why the Hawks must win out.   We have to be the type of team that beat good teams.   Can we be that?  Idk.. but I hope so.  I would love to see Trae and Bogdan became Splash Bros East. 

 

 

[RedDawg#8]

Those damn narratives.

I was commenting to an old classmate, who is a season ticket holder, on how good we did this offseason and how we will make some noise next year.

This guy was like "we still cant play defense, I guess we will just try to outscore everyone."

When I told him about the defensive additions he was like "well the coaching sucks so it wont matter anyway."
When I said coach finally has a good, deep roster, he says "Yeah that's what we thought last year, but look at us and look at Dallas" (here is where I knew it took a dive)

He then goes right to the narrative. "So would you do the Luka trade all over again?  If you say yes then everything else you said means nothing."

I'm like dude, let it go. Our team is looking good and all you are worried about is the Luka trade. Both teams won, move on.

He says,  " See I knew it, you are just a homer"

Point is. Some people swear by narratives and can never let them go. And instead of admitting fault in the original position, they just add on more and more moving goal posts until they can find one that sticks. For us and Trae, it will always end up back at Luka. 

Trae and our Hawks will never be good enough, because that would mean 90% of the experts got it all wrong when they said we made a mistake before either kid played a single minute in the NBA. And its easier to move the goalposts than it is to admit they were wrong.

Thats why I compare Trae to Old School Isaiah Thomas. Doesn't matter what he does or accomplishes, he will always have a negative perception about him because that's the narrative. He cant just be great. It comes with a bunch of extra baggage. For Isaiah, he did it to himself. For Trae it was done to him.

Either way, his story has been written, and all he can do is make some exciting memories along the way for us.

Edited November 27, 2020 by RedDawg#8

[JayBirdHawk]

Trae has two things going against him:

1. He plays for the Hawks

2. His struggles shooting the 1st month of his NBA career

Those who he said he was a bust, the worst player ever and the wrong pick that first month of the season, can't get over the fact they were dead ass wrong. So they hold to that narrative and no matter what, it always comes with a 'but what about...'

Hawks just need to WIN! Get to the playoffs and compete, not be an easy out.

 

[DS5]

27 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Those damn narratives.

I was commenting to an old classmate, who is a season ticket holder, on how good we did this offseason and how we will make some noise next year.

This guy was like "we still cant play defense, I guess we will just try to outscore everyone."

When I told him about the defensive additions he was like "well the coaching sucks so it wont matter anyway."
When I said coach finally has a good, deep roster, he says "Yeah that's what we thought last year, but look at us and look at Dallas" (here is where I knew it took a dive)

He then goes right to the narrative. "So would you do the Luka trade all over again?  If you say yes then everything else you said means nothing."

I'm like dude, let it go. Our team is looking good and all you are worried about is the Luka trade. Both teams won, move on.

He says,  " See I knew it, you are just a homer"

I think your old classmate might be my coworker. I had literally the same conversation with him. Worst part is that he's probably watched maaaaybe 10 full hawks games. It always seems like those with the strongest opinions against the hawks are those that never actually follow the hawks.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

no.

They view Luka as Transcendent already.   They don't and will probably never have that same respect for Trae.   That's why the Hawks must win out.   We have to be the type of team that beat good teams.   Can we be that?  Idk.. but I hope so.  I would love to see Trae and Bogdan became Splash Bros East. 

 

 

Other than the Splash Bros part, I really agree with the rest. 

[NBASupes]

50 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Trae has two things going against him:

1. He plays for the Hawks

2. His struggles shooting the 1st month of his NBA career

Those who he said he was a bust, the worst player ever and the wrong pick that first month of the season, can't get over the fact they were dead ass wrong. So they hold to that narrative and no matter what, it always comes with a 'but what about...'

Hawks just need to WIN! Get to the playoffs and compete, not be an easy out.

 

1. Yep

2. 1st half mainly and summer league. 

Trae does get a lot more respect than Cam Reddish who is truly the one who needs more respect considering his improvement from the 1st half to 2nd. Trae at least got noticed for his 2nd half, so much so get earned ROY votes. Cam didn't even get into the 1st or 2nd team for all Rookie. He got no acknowledgement on his massive improvement outside of Hawk fans. 

[RedDawg#8]

48 minutes ago, DS5 said:

I think your old classmate might be my coworker. I had literally the same conversation with him. Worst part is that he's probably watched maaaaybe 10 full hawks games. It always seems like those with the strongest opinions against the hawks are those that never actually follow the hawks.

He might be. Thats funny because he told me I sounded just like his coworker haha

[RedDawg#8]

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

1. Yep

2. 1st half mainly and summer league. 

Trae does get a lot more respect than Cam Reddish who is truly the one who needs more respect considering his improvement from the 1st half to 2nd. Trae at least got noticed for his 2nd half, so much so get earned ROY votes. Cam didn't even get into the 1st or 2nd team for all Rookie. He got no acknowledgement on his massive improvement outside of Hawk fans. 

Trae literally had to have some all time great numbers as a rookie and sophmore just to get the slight respect he does have. Cam is going to be a beast, but he hasn't made it undeniable the way that Trae did. His best games as a rookie compared to Trae's seem pretty ordinary. 
We know different, but outsiders only see highlights and boxscores.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Trae literally had to have some all time great numbers as a rookie and sophmore just to get the slight respect he does have. Cam is going to be a beast, but he hasn't made it undeniable the way that Trae did. His best games as a rookie compared to Trae's seem pretty ordinary. 
We know different, but outsiders only see highlights and boxscores.

His PPT was in the top 5 in the NBA. Shot over 40% from three with great volume for a rookie. He still was playing very good defense for anyone. He wasn't supposed to put Trae Young stats, he doesn't get the touches but what he was doing and how he was doing it was impressive. Trae was amazing going from a -2.0 WAR in December to finish the year with a 1.8 WAR. That's a 3.8 improvement. Cam made a 2.8 improvement. Both were extremely impressive and the best for their classes in terms of 2nd half WAR.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

His PPT was in the top 5 in the NBA. Shot over 40% from three with great volume for a rookie. He still was playing very good defense for anyone. He wasn't supposed to put Trae Young stats, he doesn't get the touches but what he was doing and how he was doing it was impressive. Trae was amazing going from a -2.0 WAR in December to finish the year with a 1.8 WAR. That's a 3.8 improvement. Cam made a 2.8 improvement. Both were extremely impressive and the best for their classes in terms of 2nd half WAR.

You know who helped both of them improve their WAR's?

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

You know who helped both of them improve their WAR's?

 

Cam did most of his damage with Trae Young as did JC as statistics prove. But yes, having JC over Jabari sure did help. It wasn't like Jabari was this bastion of hope out there and VC was more of a carcass than a shell of his old self.

I dont know why posters on this site continue to bring up JC all of the day as if I dont like him. I do, I dont like the idea of the contract that you assume is reasonable and I think that hinders us as a franchise.

Edited November 27, 2020 by NBASupes

[Gray Mule]

Question:  When will King James cease to be the #1 wanted NBA player?  What player could any fan say, "I wouldn't trade him, even, for The King."

Luka is, to many fans, that player that will soon qualify.  They believe in him that much.  They look at Trae and his beginning career and just know, no contest, Atlanta got taken by Dallas.

Trae is an all star.  Luka is an all star.  So what.  Luka is better.  Look at the two team's record last season.

I would still do the trade right now!  What, are you off your rocker?  No.  I would not trade Trae AND Reddish, even, for Luka.  Trae had a terrible start to his NBA career.  Luka didn't.  Don't look any further, Dallas is the big winner.  Adding Cam?  Look at his start.  Hah!

Hawk fans know.  Early in their NBA life, neither Hawk was very good.  Quiet a different story now.  We have 2 very good NBA players.  Both are still young and will only get better.

Almost all non Hawk fans think of the trade as a swap of Trae and Luka.  Cam Reddish is the huge difference!  He came to us, injured.  He had just had surgery.  It took half the season for him to get his NBA legs under him.  He's now one of the best Hawks.  

We won the trade!  I wouldn't trade our two for Dallas' one right now, would you?

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

Question:  When will King James cease to be the #1 wanted NBA player?  What player could any fan say, "I wouldn't trade him, even, for The King."

Luka is, to many fans, that player that will soon qualify.  They believe in him that much.  They look at Trae and his beginning career and just know, no contest, Atlanta got taken by Dallas.

Trae is an all star.  Luka is an all star.  So what.  Luka is better.  Look at the two team's record last season.

I would still do the trade right now!  What, are you off your rocker?  No.  I would not trade Trae AND Reddish, even, for Luka.  Trae had a terrible start to his NBA career.  Luka didn't.  Don't look any further, Dallas is the big winner.  Adding Cam?  Look at his start.  Hah!

Hawk fans know.  Early in their NBA life, neither Hawk was very good.  Quiet a different story now.  We have 2 very good NBA players.  Both are still young and will only get better.

Almost all non Hawk fans think of the trade as a swap of Trae and Luka.  Cam Reddish is the huge difference!  He came to us, injured.  He had just had surgery.  It took half the season for him to get his NBA legs under him.  He's now one of the best Hawks.  

We won the trade!  I wouldn't trade our two for Dallas' one right now, would you?

Yep but most fans don't watch the Hawks. To them, Cam Reddish sucks. To them, Trae Young is a stat padder. Most NBA fans have an opinion of us not realizing how talented our young core is.

[Diesel]

12 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Other than the Splash Bros part, I really agree with the rest. 

He and Bogdanovic could be the Splash Bros E.  We have enough weapons that they will have to be single covered.  That should increase their shooting percentages. 

[Wretch]

TL:DR: It will take a jaw-dropping free agent signing and/or an NBA finals appearance to change this BS narrative. 

For many reasons (some very valid), the Hawks have always been an afterthought.  It was only natural after Trae's initial struggles and Luka's smooth transition that they'd push that negative narrative.  Dallas being playoff bound, despite the obvious differences between our teams, was the perfect opportunity to upsell the narrative. "Upsell" being the key word because, let's be honest, it all makes for a good story and that's what the MSM is in the business of.  Selling stories...

The power of suggestion is amazing.  Consequently, they can and will change the narrative whenever they want.  When there's an Atlanta Hawks story that provides a better narrative than "LOL, look at how those losers passed on the heir to the face of the NBA" they will run with it.  That's "journalism" I suppose...and if it matters, then you'll have to settle for whatever story they decide is best for us.

When we put together winning seasons, I believe the story will shift to, "look at how much Trae has matured." This despite who he is RIGHT NOW and has been since he broke out of his transitional slump.  The pessimist in me says that the story they have for anything short of a Finals appearance, or perhaps a hard fought 7-game series in the ECF's, will be "Trae Young needs to get out of Atlanta and the Hawks need to get value for him while they can."  Not unlike how they're not-so-subtlety suggesting the "Giannis Sweepstakes!" now.

We know the truth.  Trae is an elite player that deserves a nod among his peers.  The team's struggles have nothing to do with his abilities and EVERYTHING to do with us clearly focusing on development and talent acquisition up until this offseason.

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, Diesel said:

He and Bogdanovic could be the Splash Bros E.  We have enough weapons that they will have to be single covered.  That should increase their shooting percentages. 

Bogi is not that good of a shooter. He's streaky like Hardaway Jr. The player I want Trae to model is Lillard. Steph's off ball movement is in a class of it's own. I don't want to put that on Trae. 

Edited November 27, 2020 by NBASupes

[Diesel]

13 minutes ago, Wretch said:

TL:DR: It will take a jaw-dropping free agent signing and/or an NBA finals appearance to change this BS narrative. 

I don't think those are the only way.  Trae could just play outside of his mind.   If he put up Curry like highlights and the team becomes dominant, he will become a superstar. 

 

13 minutes ago, Wretch said:

For many reasons (some very valid), the Hawks have always been an afterthought.  It was only natural after Trae's initial struggles and Luka's smooth transition that they'd push that negative narrative.  Dallas being playoff bound, despite the obvious differences between our teams, was the perfect opportunity to upsell the narrative. "Upsell" being the key word because, let's be honest, it all makes for a good story and that's what the MSM is in the business of.  Selling stories...

The power of suggestion is amazing.  Consequently, they can and will change the narrative whenever they want.  When there's an Atlanta Hawks story that provides a better narrative than "LOL, look at how those losers passed on the heir to the face of the NBA" they will run with it.  That's "journalism" I suppose...and if it matters, then you'll have to settle for whatever story they decide is best for us.

When we put together winning seasons, I believe the story will shift to, "look at how much Trae has matured." This despite who he is RIGHT NOW and has been since he broke out of his transitional slump.  The pessimist in me says that the story they have for anything short of a Finals appearance, or perhaps a hard fought 7-game series in the ECF's, will be "Trae Young needs to get out of Atlanta and the Hawks need to get value for him while they can."  Not unlike how they're not-so-subtlety suggesting the "Giannis Sweepstakes!" now.

We know the truth.  Trae is an elite player that deserves a nod among his peers.  The team's struggles have nothing to do with his abilities and EVERYTHING to do with us clearly focusing on development and talent acquisition up until this offseason.

I agree with the changing narrative.   Our win/loss has the ability to change the narrative. 

[Diesel]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Bogi is not that good of a shooter. He's streaky like Hardaway Jr. The player I want Trae to model is Lillard. Steph's off ball movement is in a class of it's own. I don't want to put that on Trae. 

I realized that he was streaky when we got him, but he's never really played by a PG who focuses so much attention that it would give him moments of wide openness. 

 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I realized that he was streaky when we got him, but he's never really played by a PG who focuses so much attention that it would give him moments of wide openness. 

 

He might be a couple percentage points better but to expect him to shoot better than Kevin is not realistic at all. Kevin is a sharp. Bogi is a good shooter but streaky.