Next person who calls De'Andre Hunter a PF gets my foot in their back side.

[RedDawg#8]

I think we are splitting hairs getting too fixated on traditional positions.

The only time Hunter will play the "4" it wont be because we need him to play like or defend AD, KG, Tim Duncan, or any traditional big man. It will only be because we are looking for more shooting and potentially more switching on defense. That's it.

He wont be a standard 4 the way we all agree he should not be used. He will be a big wing, and we will be playing small. And we will only be doing it because the situation calls for it. 
Deandre Hunter is not a big man. Nobody wants to see that. Nobody wants him outmatched. But the game HAS evolved. And small lineups are a tool in every teams arsenal. Having a guy that can be versatile gives you the ability not just to match up, but to attack your opponent.

In the last 10 years, the NBA champs have been a "big" team only once. Every other time, they have been versatile rosters that play varied styles. Players and skillsets used like chess pieces.

Fixating on whether a guy should be this OR that instead of this AND that is an obsolete way of looking at things.

 

[Peoriabird]

18 hours ago, marco102 said:

Oh so you're saying a coach should mix and match his lineup to optimize their performance on offense and defense against another team? 

I'm just saying that chemistry is a real thing.  Knowing where everyone is suppose to be is important.  This cross training crap didn't work for Quinn and it hasn't worked for the Hawks.  In order to have effective team defense and rebounding is for players to play certain positions.  They need to know exactly what area they should be covering and who they should box out who and who is responsible for transition defense....It aint that easy to play cohesively with 4 other guys.  Too many times players would get lost on defense and Trae would end up on the opposing team's center because the defensive scheme was not sound nor practiced.  Just like Quinn constantly had players running into each other because they didn't know where to be or who to cover, LP's defense suffered the same fate on many occasions.  

[AHF]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

I don't care about the stupid inch, but why is our shooting guard taller than our power forward? If anything they are both small forwards. In that case go ahead and put Cam at power forward.

Hunter plays the 3 because he is not as quick as Cam and is stronger.  Between the two Cam is better suited to check guards; Hunter is better suited to check forwards.  With his agility, Cam can use his height/length effectively on offense at the 2 as well.

John Collins and Gallo are our power forwards this year.  Hunter is going to log the vast majority of his minutes at the 3.

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

LP's defense suffered the same fate on many occasions.  

Had nothing to do with the team being young and having no depth? 

Either way, you're saying that a coach should maximize his offensive and defensive production with his lineups, so you do agree with that right? 

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Had nothing to do with the team being young and having no depth? 

Either way, you're saying that a coach should maximize his offensive and defensive production with his lineups, so you do agree with that right? 

Same results the year before without so called young players.  This is specific to Pierce!

[marco102]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Same results the year before without so called young players.  This is specific to Pierce!

 A coach should maximize his offensive and defensive production with his lineups, so you do agree with that, right? 

 

 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

 A coach should maximize his offensive and defensive production with his lineups, so you do agree with that, right? 

 

 

Ok, I'll play...yes but what is your point?

[marco102]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Ok, I'll play...yes but what is your point?

De'Andre hunter should be guarding Jason Tatum when he plays the four.  Doesn't mean De'Andre is playing the four, but he sure as hell better be guarding him if there are no better options on the floor. 

The entire point of this is that in certain situations, De'Andre Hunter will guard the player playing the four for the other team.

You're saying he should NEVER play the four.

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

Just now, marco102 said:

De'Andre hunter should be guarding Jason Tatum when he plays the four.  Doesn't mean De'Andre is playing the four, but he sure as hell better be guarding him if there are no better options on the floor. 

 

Team defense doesn't work like that which is my point.

[marco102]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Team defense doesn't work like that which is my point.

Goodnight. 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, marco102 said:

Goodnight. 

My point is all the other team has to do is set one screen and Hunter is no longer checking Tatum. So my point is that you need a system to stop teams not individual players.

[bleachkit]

 

5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

De'Andre hunter should be guarding Jason Tatum when he plays the four.  Doesn't mean De'Andre is playing the four, but he sure as hell better be guarding him if there are no better options on the floor. 

The entire point of this is that in certain situations, De'Andre Hunter will guard the player playing the four for the other team.

You're saying he should NEVER play the four.

 

Hopefully not very often. 

[marco102]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

My point is all the other team has to do is set one screen and Hunter is no longer checking Tatum. So my point is that you need a system to stop teams not individual players.

No your point was De'Andre Hunter should never play the four because of rebounding issues and match ups don't matter.  The Hawks should make teams match up to them and never play small ball even if that team's small ball lineup is destroying the Hawks, but Hawks should stay big to make sure they rebound.  Don't throw out a super defensive lineup because it doesn't have enough offense.

That summarizes your points.  

All anyone reasonable is saying, sometimes depending on the matchup, De'Andre Hunter will be matched up agaist small ball fours to slow them down.

Also, screens don't cause a player to switch the opponent they are defending.  The defensive scheme does, you don't have to switch on a screen.

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

 

Hopefully not very often. 

But you can see instances, where it's appropriate for Hunter to guard a small ball four correct? 

Edited November 30, 2020 by marco102

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

No your point was De'Andre Hunter should never play the four because of rebounding issues and match ups don't matter.  The Hawks should make teams match up to them and never play small ball even if that team's small ball lineup is destroying the Hawks, but Hawks should stay big to make sure they rebound.  Don't throw out a super defensive lineup because it doesn't have enough offense.

That's summarizes your points.  

All anyone reasonable is saying, sometimes depending on the matchup, De'Andre Hunter will be matched up agaist small ball fours to slow them down.

Also, screens don't cause a player to switch the opponent they are defending.  The defensive scheme does, you don't have to switch on a screen.

Hunter will get his chance to guard JC in practice, that should be a pretty good test.

[RedDawg#8]

18 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm just saying that chemistry is a real thing.  Knowing where everyone is suppose to be is important.  This cross training crap didn't work for Quinn and it hasn't worked for the Hawks.  In order to have effective team defense and rebounding is for players to play certain positions need to know exactly what area they should covering and who should box out who and who is responsible for transition defense....It aint that easy to play cohesively with 4 other guys.  Too many time players would get lost on defense and Trae would end up on the opposing team's center because the defensive scheme was not sound nor practiced.  Just like Quinn constantly had players running into each other because they didn't know where to be or who to cover, LP's defense suffered the same fate on many occasions.  

You sure it had nothing to do with opposing coaches knowing how to attack and find mismatches?

For instance if they know how we will run a certain look, they then counter that look with simple actions to make sure they get a mismatch like Trae on a center. 
Being rigid and lining up guys who cant adjust on the fly is what leaves you vulnerable to being exploited by good offensive coaching. Thats why guy with switchable skillsets are valuable in today's NBA.

If our 2-4 can all defend the same players then its hard to isolate a mismatch

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, RedDawg#8 said:

You sure it had nothing to do with opposing coaches knowing how to attack and find mismatches?

For instance if they know how we will run a certain look, they then counter that look with simple actions to make sure they get a mismatch like Trae on a center. 
Being rigid and lining up guys who cant adjust on the fly is what leaves you vulnerable to being exploited by good offensive coaching. Thats why guy with switchable skillsets are valuable in today's NBA.

If our 2-4 can all defend the same players then its hard to isolate a mismatch

Every team knows their mismatch, they go right at Trae. His defensive metrics are among the worst in the NBA. Something has to done about it this year. Either his defense improves, or we might have to start benching him when he's getting lit up. 

[kg01]

The Hawks are gonna redefine position less basketball.

[Peoriabird]

17 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

You sure it had nothing to do with opposing coaches knowing how to attack and find mismatches?

For instance if they know how we will run a certain look, they then counter that look with simple actions to make sure they get a mismatch like Trae on a center. 
Being rigid and lining up guys who cant adjust on the fly is what leaves you vulnerable to being exploited by good offensive coaching. Thats why guy with switchable skillsets are valuable in today's NBA.

If our 2-4 can all defend the same players then its hard to isolate a mismatch

Personnel helps but there have been little guard in the league before on good defensive teams... BJ Armstrong comes to mind on the Bulls and John stockton on the Jazz, Tony Parker on the Spurs and Conley on the Grizzlies. You have to devise a cohesive scheme for your players to be successful.  I'm assuming that your initial statement isn't asking me whether LP got out coached by the opposing coach because you know the answer to that question.

[RedDawg#8]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Personnel helps but there have been little guard in the league before on good defensive teams... BJ Armstrong comes to mind on the Bulls and John stockton on the Jazz, Tony Parker on the Spurs and Conley on the Grizzlies. You have to devise a cohesive scheme for your players to be successful.  I'm assuming that your initial statement isn't not asking me whether LP got out coached by the opposing coach because you know the answer to that question.

It was more a statement that it wasnt lack of specialized roles or asking players to do too much that caused us (and the Falcons) problems. It was running vanilla schemes that every opposing coach can scheme against because they know where each player will be, and they pick on who they want. I dont mind conceeding this because LP himself admitted he hadnt even started to install real defensive schemes yet because he was still teaching guys how to play NBA basketball. The one time we saw him implement a defensive strategy, the 1-3-1 zone, it worked to perfection.  

 

[RedDawg#8]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Every team knows their mismatch, they go right at Trae. His defensive metrics are among the worst in the NBA. Something has to done about it this year. Either his defense improves, or we might have to start benching him when he's getting lit up. 

I think thats the whole strategy of surrounding him with defenders. Plus Trae is going to make some strides. He  showed a little improvement down the stretch last season, he just has to keep it up.