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Next person who calls De'Andre Hunter a PF gets my foot in their back side.


thecampster

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Just now, Sothron said:

Atkinson took G level considered talent and made them NBA players and in some cases pretty decent to good players. He also got them into the playoffs without the divas. LP hasn't done anything remotely the same.

Who?  I know thats what he's credited for but I don't see it.

I like that he had them playing hard, which is good.  Commendable, but I think thats all it was.

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3 hours ago, AHF said:

Agree to disagree hard on that.  Those teams were built to tank.  

Winning and playing defense are 2 different things.  My point is that those teams had decent defenders on it and they didn't defend.  This is why I say this defensive problem the Hawks are experiencing is a Pierce thing. For example, Bud's team in 2017 had much worse personnel than LP's team the following year but yet the Defensive stats were better under Bud than LP each year.  LP's teams gave up the most points per game each year he has coached where Bud's team was 8th worst.

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48 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Winning and playing defense are 2 different things.  My point is that those teams had decent defenders on it and they didn't defend.  This is why I say this defensive problem the Hawks are experiencing is a Pierce thing. For example, Bud's team in 2017 had much worse personnel than LP's team the following year but yet the Defensive stats were better under Bud than LP each year.  LP's teams gave up the most points per game each year he has coached where Bud's team was 8th worst.

Again, O disagree that the poor to solid group of vets you listed along with a handful of lottery picks getting big minutes was ever going to be a good defense.  Dedmon is the best of that bunch.  Bembry next but he is unable on offense.  Len is not a good defender.  Baze confuses energy with solid D.  You’ve even got some g-league level talent on that list.  None of those guys are good enough to be a mainstay in the starting lineup of a good team and only Dedmon provides any organization or leadership.  That is not the core of a good defense.  Not close.

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5 minutes ago, AHF said:

Again, O disagree that the poor to solid group of vets you listed along with a handful of lottery picks getting big minutes was ever going to be a good defense.  Dedmon is the best of that bunch.  Bembry next but he is unable on offense.  Len is not a good defender.  Baze confuses energy with solid D.  You’ve even got some g-league level talent on that list.  None of those guys are good enough to be a mainstay in the starting lineup of a good team and only Dedmon provides any organization or leadership.  That is not the core of a good defense.  Not close.

Bud had more Gleague players on his team period...You have to acknowledge that at the very least. 

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1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Winning and playing defense are 2 different things.  My point is that those teams had decent defenders on it and they didn't defend.  This is why I say this defensive problem the Hawks are experiencing is a Pierce thing. For example, Bud's team in 2017 had much worse personnel than LP's team the following year but yet the Defensive stats were better under Bud than LP each year.  LP's teams gave up the most points per game each year he has coached where Bud's team was 8th worst.

Didn't we have rookie Trae at PG? Dennis as a 5th year player was miles better than Trae on defense. 

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5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Didn't we have rookie Trae at PG? Dennis as a 5th year player was miles better than Trae on defense. 

Y'all want to put this all on Trae but it wasn't just him. Plus during his 1st year, he was playing with lin. Also during Bud's last year, Dennis missed a lot if time.

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9 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The Hawks want Hunter at SF with spot minutes at PF.  Multi-positional players gives us more options on offense and defense.

It should be spot minutes at SG.

I got ripped by a certain poster when I suggested that he's probably better at the 2, than he is at the 4.  But we need to stop playing at a disadvantage.

Schlenk has balanced out the lineup, so I personally never want to see Hunter at the 4, unless it's a very extreme situation.

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25 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Y'all want to put this all on Trae but it wasn't just him. Plus during his 1st year, he was playing with lin. Also during Bud's last year, Dennis missed a lot if time.

If you look at the numbers, it wasn't Trae that got scored on the most.  It was Collins and Hunter.

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56 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Bud had more Gleague players on his team period...You have to acknowledge that at the very least. 

That veteran playoff team Bud inherited where the defense was quarterbacked by Paul Millsap and Al Horford who were both multiple All-Stars known for their D?  LMAO

image.png

There isn't anyone other than a vet and there isn't a g-leaguer in that top 10!

That team is less talented than this?

image.png

Jones was a g-league quality player.  Vince was so gassed he was in that class as well.  The top 5 are age 20-22.

Not even close to comparable.  Advantage Bud by a long shot.  And Bud's rosters got better from there (at least until Budcox became the GM).

 

 

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45 minutes ago, AHF said:

That veteran playoff team Bud inherited where the defense was quarterbacked by Paul Millsap and Al Horford who were both multiple All-Stars known for their D?  LMAO

image.png

There isn't anyone other than a vet and there isn't a g-leaguer in that top 10!

That team is less talented than this?

image.png

Jones was a g-league quality player.  Vince was so gassed he was in that class as well.  The top 5 are age 20-22.

Not even close to comparable.  Advantage Bud by a long shot.  And Bud's rosters got better from there (at least until Budcox became the GM).

 

 

Are you doing this on purpose?  Why are you comparing Bud's 60 win team with LP's teams.  I clearly was comparing the 2017  Bud team with LP's 2018/19/20 teams.

This is Bud's 2017/18 team

 

Roster

No. Player Pos Ht Wt Birth Date   Exp College
8 Luke Babbitt SF 6-9 225 June 20, 1989 us 7 Nevada
24 Kent Bazemore SG 6-4 195 July 1, 1989 us 5 Old Dominion
3 Marco Belinelli SG 6-5 220 March 25, 1986 it 10  
95 DeAndre' Bembry SF 6-5 210 July 4, 1994 us 1 Saint Joseph's
16 Nicolás Brussino SF 6-7 195 March 2, 1993 ar 1  
34 Tyler Cavanaugh PF 6-9 238 February 9, 1994 us R George Washington
0 Antonius Cleveland SG 6-5 195 February 2, 1994 us R SE Missouri State
20 John Collins PF 6-9 235 September 23, 1997 us R Wake Forest
14 Dewayne Dedmon C 7-0 245 August 12, 1989 us 4 USC
5 Malcolm Delaney PG 6-3 190 March 11, 1989 us 1 Virginia Tech
2 Tyler Dorsey SG 6-5 183 February 18, 1996 us R Oregon
6 Jeremy Evans SF 6-9 200 October 24, 1987 us 6 Western Kentucky
7 Ersan İlyasova PF 6-9 235 May 15, 1987 tr 9  
8 Damion Lee SG 6-5 210 October 21, 1992 us R Drexel, Louisville
11 Josh Magette PG 6-1 160 November 28, 1989 us R Alabama-Huntsville
3 Jaylen Morris SG 6-5 185 September 19, 1995 us R Molloy
31 Mike Muscala C 6-10 240 July 1, 1991 us 4 Bucknell
18 Miles Plumlee C 6-11 249 September 1, 1988 us 5 Duke
12 Taurean Prince SF 6-7 218 March 22, 1994 us 1 Baylor
17 Dennis Schröder PG 6-1 172 September 15, 1993 de 4  
22 Isaiah Taylor PG 6-3 170 July 11, 1994 us 1 Texas
4 Andrew White SF 6-7 210 June 16, 1993 us R Nebraska, Syracuse
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1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It should be spot minutes at SG.

I got ripped by a certain poster when I suggested that he's probably better at the 2, than he is at the 4.  But we need to stop playing at a disadvantage.

Schlenk has balanced out the lineup, so I personally never want to see Hunter at the 4, unless it's a very extreme situation.

Why don't teams play with 5 7-footers if being taller than the opposition is the only meaningful advantage?

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35 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

I don't think saying we have pivoted away is how I would characterize it. We added depth and versatility, so there wouldn't be so much pressure on the young line up. It's very rare for a team of guys on their rookie contracts to be winner. 

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2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Are you doing this on purpose?  Why are you comparing Bud's 60 win team with LP's teams.  I clearly was comparing the 2017  Bud team with LP's 2018/19/20 teams.

This is Bud's 2017/18 team

 

Roster

No. Player Pos Ht Wt Birth Date   Exp College
8 Luke Babbitt SF 6-9 225 June 20, 1989 us 7 Nevada
24 Kent Bazemore SG 6-4 195 July 1, 1989 us 5 Old Dominion
3 Marco Belinelli SG 6-5 220 March 25, 1986 it 10  
95 DeAndre' Bembry SF 6-5 210 July 4, 1994 us 1 Saint Joseph's
16 Nicolás Brussino SF 6-7 195 March 2, 1993 ar 1  
34 Tyler Cavanaugh PF 6-9 238 February 9, 1994 us R George Washington
0 Antonius Cleveland SG 6-5 195 February 2, 1994 us R SE Missouri State
20 John Collins PF 6-9 235 September 23, 1997 us R Wake Forest
14 Dewayne Dedmon C 7-0 245 August 12, 1989 us 4 USC
5 Malcolm Delaney PG 6-3 190 March 11, 1989 us 1 Virginia Tech
2 Tyler Dorsey SG 6-5 183 February 18, 1996 us R Oregon
6 Jeremy Evans SF 6-9 200 October 24, 1987 us 6 Western Kentucky
7 Ersan İlyasova PF 6-9 235 May 15, 1987 tr 9  
8 Damion Lee SG 6-5 210 October 21, 1992 us R Drexel, Louisville
11 Josh Magette PG 6-1 160 November 28, 1989 us R Alabama-Huntsville
3 Jaylen Morris SG 6-5 185 September 19, 1995 us R Molloy
31 Mike Muscala C 6-10 240 July 1, 1991 us 4 Bucknell
18 Miles Plumlee C 6-11 249 September 1, 1988 us 5 Duke
12 Taurean Prince SF 6-7 218 March 22, 1994 us 1 Baylor
17 Dennis Schröder PG 6-1 172 September 15, 1993 de 4  
22 Isaiah Taylor PG 6-3 170 July 11, 1994 us 1 Texas
4 Andrew White SF 6-7 210 June 16, 1993 us R Nebraska, Syracuse

First, that wasn’t the 60 win roster.  I’m sure it was confusing but you’ll see that if you look at Bud’s history with the team.  I posted his first team.
 

Second, you are comparing the team Bud built and not the team he started with.  Not sure how that makes sense.

But let’s play along:

image.jpeg

This list of the top 10 players by minutes played is dominated by veterans that were handpicked by Bud for his system and played for him for multiple years.  The only ones who don’t fit that profile are John Collins (who was the only one 22 or younger in the bunch and contributed from day 1), Taylor (who was still older than any of the top 5 from last year’s team of Hawks) and Dedmon (a 28 year old vet who learned under Pops and was ready to step right in).
 

Other than JC, every guy is a 23–31 year old vet.  Not a 20 year old rookie or 42 year old coach in training.  These guys are the vets that Bud chose.  The team had enough to win 43 games due to veteran presence, fit for Buds system and continuity.  
 

None of those things apply to the vets that LP has coached.  So, again, I don’t expect a bunch of near rookies and rejects filling the roster to match Bud’s hand picked veterans even if I think Bud did a **** job as a GM.  Veterans (even role playing vets) will do more for your D than most 20-22 year olds.

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21 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I didn't say it was the only meaningful advantage.  But ask the Rockets if size, especially on the frontline, matters.

The Rockets were a game away from a championship with 6'5 PJ Tucker playing the 4 and occasionally the 5. All they had to do was not miss 27 straight 3's.

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One could easily argue that the Rockets “frontline” did effectively neutralize the Lakers frontline given that both McGee and Dwight were DNPCDed after game 1 onwards in favor of 6’8” stretch big Kieff taking all of their minutes.

That small coaching change 2/3rds of the way through game 2 to completely mothball the Cs is what turned a closely contested series that was  trending in Houston’s favor into a cakewalk for LA.  

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