2020-21 The Current Ask Supes

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

It also does hamper our ability to pay our young guys

But you you say that as if Collins is 'old' and you also assume the other young guys will be guaranteed or worth paying in 2-3 years.  As of today only Trae is guaranteed to get a max deal with an early extension this offseason. 

And again, by the time Hunter and Reddish are due their extension Gallo and Bogi may not be around.

[gurpilo]

Is clear we need a backup C but I would like to keep Snell and Rondo, team is working now, do not touch it, keep it working. Probably one of the best options might be Muscala but he is notba fit, he is not good on defense, I don't know if there is a good FA out there like Moses Brown that has been a great find for OKC.

[gHost83]

9 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

Is clear we need a backup C but I would like to keep Snell and Rondo, team is working now, do not touch it, keep it working. Probably one of the best options might be Muscala but he is notba fit, he is not good on defense, I don't know if there is a good FA out there like Moses Brown that has been a great find for OKC.

We don't need a backup big... Did you watch the game last Knight? Pun intended lol.

[gurpilo]

hace 7 minutos, gHost83 dijo:

We don't need a backup big... Did you watch the game last Knight? Pun intended lol.

Well, Knight is great, but we need a big C to defend some big guys, someon that cab replace Capela, I see Knight more as a PF rather than a C.

There are some options there, O Quinn, Maker, Cousins, John Henson...

[sturt]

( @AHF ... like I said. )

 

[JeffS17]

48 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

But you you say that as if Collins is 'old' and you also assume the other young guys will be guaranteed or worth paying in 2-3 years.  As of today only Trae is guaranteed to get a max deal with an early extension this offseason. 

And again, by the time Hunter and Reddish are due their extension Gallo and Bogi may not be around.

Other young guys.  Again, I think we just disagree if Collins is worth a max or not.  I'll be very happy if we keep him for $20M but max isn't worth it imo... if we pay Collins the max and Hunter/Cam pan out to best case scenarios, we won't be able to pay them and his contract will not be easy to ship.

I think the difference in our opinion is just how much we think Collins is worth which leaks into the other discussions.

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, gHost83 said:

We don't need a backup big... Did you watch the game last Knight? Pun intended lol.

Did you see the Rockets size? Or lack thereof?. 

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Other young guys.  Again, I think we just disagree if Collins is worth a max or not.  I'll be very happy if we keep him for $20M but max isn't worth it imo... if we pay Collins the max and Hunter/Cam pan out to best case scenarios, we won't be able to pay them

Why not?

[bird_dirt]

15 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Other young guys.  Again, I think we just disagree if Collins is worth a max or not.  I'll be very happy if we keep him for $20M but max isn't worth it imo... if we pay Collins the max and Hunter/Cam pan out to best case scenarios, we won't be able to pay them and his contract will not be easy to ship.

I think the difference in our opinion is just how much we think Collins is worth which leaks into the other discussions.

I thought teams are able to go into the luxury tax to resign their own players? I mean, if we're fortunate to have 4 guys who are worth at or near max, that's expensive but not impossible (unless owner unwilling to pay). 

Am I wrong about this? 

[JayBirdHawk]

14 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

we pay Collins the max and Hunter/Cam pan out to best case scenarios, we won't be able to pay them and his contract will not be easy to ship.

That only holds true if his statistical production nose dives into oblivian. Let's put it this way, as of today, I have more faith in Collins maintaining his trajectory than I have in Cam fixing his offense. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, bird_dirt said:

I thought teams are able to go into the luxury tax to resign their own players? I mean, if we're fortunate to have 4 guys who are worth at or near max, that's expensive but not impossible (unless owner unwilling to pay). 

Am I wrong about this? 

Exactly this, hence my 'why not' question. Point being if these guys become that good to warrant these extensions, and the team is winning, Ressler has to pay up.

[thecampster]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

@NBASupes & @thecampster

Are either of you hearing that we won't resign JC unless we can move Bogi?  Given that we offered >$90M after signing Bogi, I've been inclined to think one isn't a necessary predicate for the other but campster's comment about "using the money" from a Bogi trade to pay JC raises the possibility that management might have a hard budget for 2021-22 that would be exceeded if we had both on the roster.  Hoping you can clarify because that wouldn't make a lot of sense to me given Ressler's past comments about being willing to be a tax payer (which would not even be required in the short-term in order to keep both).  

Its a bit more complicated than you are suggesting and I'm only putting pieces together from what I've been told so this part isn't a know but a best informed understanding kind of a thing. stronger than a guess, weaker than knowing.

 

There is a web of salaries around JC, Bogi, Snell that complicate the JC signing. Not because they don't want JC or won't give him the max but because they want to maintain future flexibility as it relates to the LT.  Perfect world, they want to flirt with the LT but not pay it.

This is one of the reasons they are disappointed (as am I) in Bruno. They paid him above his slot but aren't getting out of him what a vet minimum would bring. What they are trying to avoid is having to make decisions when Kev/Trae contracts come due.  The organization is extremely pleased with Kevin and his progress. They believe he has room to grow. In the offseason he worked on his strength and it shows. They are hoping for similar strides the next 2 off seasons.  

Same song different wing.  They have been talking to Cam about strength training and specifically the right strength training so he doesn't lose his hops/flexibility. The would like to see Cam add 10 to 15 good pounds. He doesn't have a bad work ethic but the difference between Cam and Hunter has been noticed.  Cam has gotten to where he is on elite athleticism. I mentioned after LP's departure that 1 on 1 critiques got personal.  LP said things to Cam he desperately needed to hear and he said them the absolute wrong way. Cam was not a fan. Cam is coming around but mid season is not the time to work on your body.  Specifically, Cam has elite shoulders by birth but they would love to see him work on joint strength, forearms and calves. Cam's wrists/forearms looks like they belong on a different set of shoulders.   If Cam does the work, he's elite.....he'll end up the best player on the Hawks but the word is he has to be externally motivated /constantly pushed. This is common for elite athletes (see Josh Smith), relying on their hops, instincts too long.

 

Assuming Reddish does the work, Huerter keeps improving and Hunter and Trae are Hunter and Trae...these are 4 more players there that all deserve big paydays. The Hawks can't keep Bogi and pay all of them. As for this upcoming season, that means either Bogi or Snell have to go to play the LT game.

[thecampster]

A word on Huerter as a teammate.

In the Bulls' heyday, players marveled at the assignments Dennis Rodman would volunteer for. Rodman would stay after practice with players who wanted shooting reps...even free throws and volunteer to shag balls.  Rodman would ask shooters to stay after just so he could practice rebounding. He obsessed over it, to the point they said he could call if a shot was going in the second it left a shooter's hand. Rodman worked on boxing out alone. He would watch film for tendencies on players and position himself to easier box that player out. He was a craft guy.

The word on Huerter is he'll volunteer for things like feeding balls to shooters. Setting picks in practice or being the defender a pick is set on just so others can work on their craft. The whole time he's asking coaches what he can do better.  He's like the backup combo wing version of Rodman. He does whatever he can for teammates and makes it work for him. The guys' love him. He is a glue guy with starter capable skills.

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Its a bit more complicated than you are suggesting and I'm only putting pieces together from what I've been told so this part isn't a know but a best informed understanding kind of a thing. stronger than a guess, weaker than knowing.

 

There is a web of salaries around JC, Bogi, Snell that complicate the JC signing. Not because they don't want JC or won't give him the max but because they want to maintain future flexibility as it relates to the LT.  Perfect world, they want to flirt with the LT but not pay it.

This is one of the reasons they are disappointed (as am I) in Bruno. They paid him above his slot but aren't getting out of him what a vet minimum would bring. What they are trying to avoid is having to make decisions when Kev/Trae contracts come due.  The organization is extremely pleased with Kevin and his progress. They believe he has room to grow. In the offseason he worked on his strength and it shows. They are hoping for similar strides the next 2 off seasons.  

Same song different wing.  They have been talking to Cam about strength training and specifically the right strength training so he doesn't lose his hops/flexibility. The would like to see Cam add 10 to 15 good pounds. He doesn't have a bad work ethic but the difference between Cam and Hunter has been noticed.  Cam has gotten to where he is on elite athleticism. I mentioned after LP's departure that 1 on 1 critiques got personal.  LP said things to Cam he desperately needed to hear and he said them the absolute wrong way. Cam was not a fan. Cam is coming around but mid season is not the time to work on your body.  Specifically, Cam has elite shoulders by birth but they would love to see him work on joint strength, forearms and calves. Cam's wrists/forearms looks like they belong on a different set of shoulders.   If Cam does the work, he's elite.....he'll end up the best player on the Hawks but the word is he has to be externally motivated /constantly pushed. This is common for elite athletes (see Josh Smith), relying on their hops, instincts too long.

 

Assuming Reddish does the work, Huerter keeps improving and Hunter and Trae are Hunter and Trae...these are 4 more players there that all deserve big paydays. The Hawks can't keep Bogi and pay all of them. As for this upcoming season, that means either Bogi or Snell have to go to play the LT game.

This is some good stuff.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

A word on Huerter as a teammate.

In the Bulls' heyday, players marveled at the assignments Dennis Rodman would volunteer for. Rodman would stay after practice with players who wanted shooting reps...even free throws and volunteer to shag balls.  Rodman would ask shooters to stay after just so he could practice rebounding. He obsessed over it, to the point they said he could call if a shot was going in the second it left a shooter's hand. Rodman worked on boxing out alone. He would watch film for tendencies on players and position himself to easier box that player out. He was a craft guy.

The word on Huerter is he'll volunteer for things like feeding balls to shooters. Setting picks in practice or being the defender a pick is set on just so others can work on their craft. The whole time he's asking coaches what he can do better.  He's like the backup combo wing version of Rodman. He does whatever he can for teammates and makes it work for him. The guys' love him. He is a glue guy with starter capable skills.

Love this from Huerter.

I remember those Rodman stories, particularly players shooting tendencies so he knew where the rebound trajectory would be.

[JayBirdHawk]

15 minutes ago, thecampster said:

the word is he has to be externally motivated /constantly pushed.

He's gotta fix this or he'll just be another 'athlete' that didn't live up to his potential.

[JayBirdHawk]

24 minutes ago, thecampster said:

that means either Bogi or Snell have to go to play the LT game.

When we traded for Snell, I didn't figure him as part of our long term plans. I figured he'd be traded or bought out by the trade deadline. Then injuries and he's starting and filled in admirably.

From what I recall with the LT for next, I thought we'd be just below with no Snell and a JC max (but to be honest I haven't done in depth LT numbers).

I guess I need to include the 2021 draft picks and vet mins?

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What is Atlanta looking for in regards to Rondo?

Idk.

 

3 hours ago, AHF said:

@NBASupes & @thecampster

Are either of you hearing that we won't resign JC unless we can move Bogi?  Given that we offered >$90M after signing Bogi, I've been inclined to think one isn't a necessary predicate for the other but campster's comment about "using the money" from a Bogi trade to pay JC raises the possibility that management might have a hard budget for 2021-22 that would be exceeded if we had both on the roster.  Hoping you can clarify because that wouldn't make a lot of sense to me given Ressler's past comments about being willing to be a tax payer (which would not even be required in the short-term in order to keep both).  

Bogi hasn't been made available from what I got. I don't know if he has anything to do with JC. I don't think so. Bogi was brought in because Kevin was literally a net neutral with Trae. He was hard to justify since teams value his player type and he will be paid. That said, the Hawks will have to at least think about it next year. Either that or trading Kevin. He did hear that Atlanta is looking to make a big move to add another wing but none is available. Michael Porter Jr was a target but Denver shut the door on that. There just aren't that many impact guys available that fit Atlanta's time schedule. 

[kg01]

31 minutes ago, thecampster said:

A word on Huerter as a teammate.

In the Bulls' heyday, players marveled at the assignments Dennis Rodman would volunteer for. Rodman would stay after practice with players who wanted shooting reps...even free throws and volunteer to shag balls.  Rodman would ask shooters to stay after just so he could practice rebounding. He obsessed over it, to the point they said he could call if a shot was going in the second it left a shooter's hand. Rodman worked on boxing out alone. He would watch film for tendencies on players and position himself to easier box that player out. He was a craft guy.

The word on Huerter is he'll volunteer for things like feeding balls to shooters. Setting picks in practice or being the defender a pick is set on just so others can work on their craft. The whole time he's asking coaches what he can do better.  He's like the backup combo wing version of Rodman. He does whatever he can for teammates and makes it work for him. The guys' love him. He is a glue guy with starter capable skills.

Sounds like the stuff I do here for other posters.  You're all welcome. 

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Why not?

No owner wants to be in the luxury tax.  Everything I'm saying thecampster outlines below as our FOs same concerns... we would have absolutely zero flexibility if hunter and cam end up being max or near-max worthy.  Sure, we can trade Collins but in the scenario I'm citing his production will certainly take a hit.  There's one ball to go around and if we want to spread out minutes and shots to other guys, Collins will not be a perennial 20/10.  Hes already down from that this season to more like 18/8.

Giving Collins a max forces us to invest in him not only monetarily but on the court as well which takes opportunity away from other guys such as Hunter and Gallo who we just signed.