Moderators macdaddy Posted March 17, 2021 Moderators Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, NBASupes said: No one is interested in what Atlanta wants in return. Boston called for Rondo. Atlanta wants to see him in the playoffs first. There was some fear on this till recently. With Nate he's calmed down a bit but showed again against the Rockets that he can be really careless with the ball and will dribble the air out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Sothron Posted March 17, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 It wouldn't shock me if we trade Bogi. Red Velvet has basically made Bogi a man with no role for his price tag since we have Cam and Hunter. I would trade Bogi for future firsts. Let Knight and OO fight for backup center minutes. And oh yeah KEEP COLLINS AND PAY HIM IN THE OFFSEASON! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrell Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Ariza to Miami for Myers Leonard.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Just now, Sothron said: It wouldn't shock me if we trade Bogi. Red Velvet has basically made Bogi a man with no role for his price tag since we have Cam and Hunter. I would trade Bogi for future firsts. Let Knight and OO fight for backup center minutes. And oh yeah KEEP COLLINS AND PAY HIM IN THE OFFSEASON! He has a lot of clauses for this year which is why Atlanta doesn't have him on the market to even listen to. Gallo on the other hand, Atlanta likes his contract and value and don't want to listen to what others have to offer. Just now, NBASupes said: He has a lot of clauses for this year which is why Atlanta doesn't have him on the market to even listen to. Gallo on the other hand, Atlanta likes his contract and value and don't want to listen to what others have to offer. If Bogi is traded, it will be next year but Atlanta signed him for a reason 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JeffS17 Posted March 17, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, NBASupes said: He has a lot of clauses for this year which is why Atlanta doesn't have him on the market to even listen to. Gallo on the other hand, Atlanta likes his contract and value and don't want to listen to what others have to offer. If Bogi is traded, it will be next year but Atlanta signed him for a reason It also makes no sense for us to ship Bogi until Cam proves out. And I still stand by Gallo being better value than a max contract Collins. The argument that other teams are willing to max John as proof of his value is bunk. Only one team has to do that to force a max. And the team(s) that value him at max might not have assets we need back. I really hope we don't max Collins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted March 17, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, NBASupes said: No one is interested in what Atlanta wants in return. What is Atlanta looking for in regards to Rondo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kg01 Posted March 17, 2021 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, JeffS17 said: It also makes no sense for us to ship Bogi until Cam proves out. And I still stand by Gallo being better value than a max contract Collins. The argument that other teams are willing to max John as proof of his value is bunk. Only one team has to do that to force a max. And the team(s) that value him at max might not have assets we need back. I really hope we don't max Collins. Sorry, this isn't true. This is like overvaluing the tomato on a sandwich but forgetting the bread brings it all together. That tomato seems great but, if you got no bread, all you have is a weird salad. Plus he's not getting a max. Not sure who's still saying that he is. And furthermore, even if he does get a max (which he isn't), who cares. All contracts are tradeable and he'd be a productive player throughout anyway so ... again, who cares. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted March 17, 2021 Moderators Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 @NBASupes & @thecampster Are either of you hearing that we won't resign JC unless we can move Bogi? Given that we offered >$90M after signing Bogi, I've been inclined to think one isn't a necessary predicate for the other but campster's comment about "using the money" from a Bogi trade to pay JC raises the possibility that management might have a hard budget for 2021-22 that would be exceeded if we had both on the roster. Hoping you can clarify because that wouldn't make a lot of sense to me given Ressler's past comments about being willing to be a tax payer (which would not even be required in the short-term in order to keep both). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Sothron Posted March 17, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, kg01 said: Sorry, this isn't true. This is like overvaluing the tomato on a sandwich but forgetting the bread brings it all together. That tomato seems great but, if you got no bread, all you have is a weird salad. Plus he's not getting a max. Not sure who's still saying that he is. And furthermore, even if he does get a max (which he isn't), who cares. All contracts are tradeable and he'd be a productive player throughout anyway so ... again, who cares. well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JeffS17 Posted March 17, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, kg01 said: Sorry, this isn't true. This is like overvaluing the tomato on a sandwich but forgetting the bread brings it all together. That tomato seems great but, if you got no bread, all you have is a weird salad. Plus he's not getting a max. Not sure who's still saying that he is. And furthermore, even if he does get a max (which he isn't), who cares. All contracts are tradeable and he'd be a productive player throughout anyway so ... again, who cares. Paying a max to a player that doesn't deserve one and then dismissing a contract as tradeable is not how you build a winning franchise... you're acknowledging he's not worth max but saying who cares if he gets it? I don't want a contract that we have to mortgage our future to trade. You make decisions like that over and over and suddenly you have a perennial 1 and done playoff team because you mismanaged your cap situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kg01 Posted March 17, 2021 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Sothron said: well said The bit about the 'weird salad' got you, huh? No need to say it out loud, I know. 1 minute ago, JeffS17 said: Paying a max to a player that doesn't deserve one and then dismissing a contract as tradeable is not how you build a winning franchise... you're acknowledging he's not worth max but saying who cares if he gets it? I don't want a contract that we have to mortgage our future to trade. You make decisions like that over and over and suddenly you have a perennial 1 and done playoff team because you mismanaged your cap situation. You should probably look into what a max is for Collins. Too many people are using that term, "max deal", and don't really know that it means something different for each player. Giving, for example, Oladipo a max deal is a very different thing than giving Collins one when it comes to franchise-debilitating decisions. I'm not advocating for him to be paid his max. I'm merely suggesting that it's not as big a deal as some are making it out to be. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted March 17, 2021 Moderators Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 29 minutes ago, JeffS17 said: The argument that other teams are willing to max John as proof of his value is bunk. Only one team has to do that to force a max. I'm not sure what you're saying here but what even just one team is willing to pay him is in fact his value by definition. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JeffS17 Posted March 17, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, kg01 said: The bit about the 'weird salad' got you, huh? No need to say it out loud, I know. You should probably look into what a max is for Collins. Too many people are using that term, "max deal", and don't really know that it means something different for each player. Giving, for example, Oladipo a max deal is a very different thing than giving Collins one when it comes to franchise-debilitating decisions. I'm not advocating for him to be paid his max. I'm merely suggesting that it's not as big a deal as some are making it out to be. Roughly $30M per for Collins right now. I think it would start a little less and escalate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted March 17, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Collins' Max is 25% of the projected cap with 8% annual increases from the Hawks vs 5% increases from another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JeffS17 Posted March 17, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, macdaddy said: I'm not sure what you're saying here but what even just one team is willing to pay him is in fact his value by definition. lol... then why do we talk about contracts being good or bad value then? If everything is in fact by definition at market value... that's a cop out argument, and it doesn't even apply to the NBA because it's not perfectly free market and the players are not commodities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Popular Post Sothron Posted March 17, 2021 Premium Member Popular Post Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 JC is a 20/10 player and is the literal ideal PF in today's game. If that's not a max contract then no one outside a top five player in the NBA is worth that. And since that is NOT how real life NBA works JC is going to get a max deal or very close to it from someone. We need to keep him. It would be beyond foolish to trade him when this team is finally winning and the potential is meeting production. JC is vital to our success. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Popular Post macdaddy Posted March 17, 2021 Moderators Popular Post Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 23 minutes ago, JeffS17 said: lol... then why do we talk about contracts being good or bad value then? If everything is in fact by definition at market value... that's a cop out argument, and it doesn't even apply to the NBA because it's not perfectly free market and the players are not commodities. Maybe i'm just being a jerk but whether the Hawks think he's worth it is the question. But the market sets the value. The Hawks don't get to set the value. None of that really matters i know but my bigger point is that if the market sets his value at the max then it probably is worth it given his production and age. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JeffS17 Posted March 17, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, macdaddy said: Maybe i'm just being a jerk but whether the Hawks think he's worth it is the question. But the market sets the value. The Hawks don't get to set the value. None of that really matters i know but my bigger point is that if the market sets his value at the max then it probably is worth it given his production and age. Yeah, it's true we might have to pay him a max if we want to keep him. I just know not all max contracts are the same, i.e Lebron max = insane value; Westbrook supermax = no chance to contend John might develop into a guy that is more than worthy of a max but if he doesn't continue to improve every year, we'll be in a bad spot. It also does hamper our ability to pay our young guys (especially if we want to bring in a star/superstar). Every owner talks about willingness to go into the luxury but few will do it when it's time to write the checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted March 17, 2021 Moderators Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 40 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said: Collins' Max is 25% of the projected cap with 8% annual increases from the Hawks vs 5% increases from another team. If that held up, the max offer the Hawks could have to match would be: $28M $29.4M $30.87M $32.4M Total: $120.7M There is a material gap between that $120.7M number and the recently reported $25M/per contract. I don't know that we are going to see any max offers to JC but the number will be $100M+ for sure. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member mrhonline Posted March 17, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 It's easy to forget how soon the NBA offseason will roll back around. I don't expect a major trade this deadline from Atlanta. Even moving Snell doesn't make a ton of sense because you can always use shooters. (And, I think, his defense isn't too bad). I still say that a Bruno/2nd to OKC for Moose trade helps Atlanta. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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