2020-21 The Current Ask Supes

[thecampster]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Hawks talk, Draft trades that almost happened or didn't, Cam Reddish, Ben Simmons, Damian Lillard, Bradley Beal, and what big move could be on the horizon. 

As far as the draft, we will start there. A lot of offers were made. I'll talk about the ones that was most serious. 

Toronto tired to move down with OKC and wanting a ton of future draft assets, OKC was declined. 

OKC did try to move up into the top 3 but didn't have the capital any of the teams were looking at to move down. 

Golden State and Atlanta was extremely close to a Cam Reddish/20 for #7 trade. Steph requested them to seriously look into Cam Reddish. GSW was close to pulling the trigger but financial reasons is why they didn't pull the deal at the end. Atlanta was targeting Jon Kuminga who was going to replace Cam Reddish. 

Which goes into Cam Reddish. Atlanta offered Cam Reddish to two teams and only two teams. GS for Kuminga and PHI for Ben Simmons. He was told the offer was Reddish/Gallo for Simmons with no draft assets involved. I was told this deal was considered not good enough from PHI or even close. I'll explain more about PHI later when covering Simmons. Atlanta also received two serious offers for Reddish from Cleveland and Detroit. Atlanta wanted a top 4 protected 2022 draft. They see that as a strong class for extremely talented wings. Both teams offer was top 10 with protections that could turn into two 2nds and Cleveland wanted to maintain the top 10 status which didn't interest Atlanta at all. As of right now, none of the Hawks are on the market. This was before the draft. I hate that it takes so long to find out the truth but it is what it is. 

Atlanta tried to move up to #9 with Sacramento to take Josh Primo but their offer which was 20/OKC 1st 2022/protected 1st 2022 was declined. Atlanta had the same offer out there for Charlotte who accepted it only if their guy was off the board which he wasn't so the deal fell through. Atlanta also tried to move up to #16 for Sengun with 20/OKC 1st back to OKC but was out bidded by HOU who traded two future lotto protected 1sts.

Sacramento had an offer #9/Barnes/Haliburton available for Ben Simmons which was declined by PHI. SAC was the most aggressive on the Ben Simmons front. 

Charlotte was extremely aggressive trying to move down if their guy wasn't available but he was so they didn't. 

Indy had some offers for #13 but not the quality they were putting falsely out there. Atlanta never offered them Cam Reddish. While GS offered to do a pick swap of #14/Poole, it was never much more than that. It was minor to say the least. They never offered multiple 1sts. 

OKC had several offers for #16(Sengun) but HOU met their demands. 

The Knicks tried to move up with Charlotte and SAC but as Atlanta experienced, the cost was way too high with SAC and Charlotte was tough because they wanted assets galore and Bouknight slid. This turned the Knicks into sellers as they felt the meat of the draft was in the late 1st and early 2nd round. 

That's it on the draft. I did find out why Coop felt. This was an extremely deep PG class and many felt he was too raw and he might be too much of a risk. That said, many felt this PG class in general was extremely deep. Coop was hurt by not playing in the Combine game is what he was told. The combine game had a lot of impact on evaluators more than every before. 

Ben Simmons 

Simmons was aggressively pursued by SAC, MIN, CLE, TOR, ATL, POR, and LAL before they landed Westbrook. His market seems to be dying. Simmons wants out. All of this market talk is BS, he's open to going to Cleveland. Yes, Cleveland. PHI sees his value as Harden and everyone sees his value was top 50 player moreso in the range of what Porzingis pulled when traded from NY to DAL. 

SAC still has an offer out there which is now Hali/Barnes/2022 1st lightly protected for Simmons. SAC sees him as a versatile SF who has obvious flaws but they think he can get them into the playoffs. 

MIN had the most asset rich offer, he did not know if MIN is still in the Simmons market. They offered Rubio/Culver/a pick swap and multiple lightly protected 1sts for Simmons. This was what teams felt was by far the best offer for Simmons. PHI passed and said they need a centerpiece like KAT or Edwards and the addition of Russell instead of expirings. MIN quickly declined the altered package. MIN saw Simmons as a PF that would be a nice fit next to KAT and a part of their Russell/Edwards/KAT core. 

CLE offered a quickly declined package but teams thought it was fair. They offered Nance, Prince, and Sexton with a lightly protected 2022 1st for Simmons. The ability to get two good players like Nance and Sexton as well as a lightly protected 1st was highly valued people around my guy said but PHI declined and said they needed #3 overall for starters. The conversation was short. From what I hear, Cleveland is still highly interested in Simmons but the price they are willing to pay hasn't changed. They want PHI to meet them where they are at, not the other way around. They see him as a SF as SAC does. They really want a bigger wing but the cost is extremely high in their opinion. 

TOR had the most hilarious offer. FVV/OG/2022 protected 1st for Simmons. They see Simmons as fine in his current role as a PG. They are fine with him the way he is. PHI declined but one can't help but laugh at a Simmons/Trent Jr/Barnes/Siakam/Borcher lineup. BK has been revived! 

ATL offered Cam/Gallo for Simmons. Quickly declined. PHI wanted both Cam and Hunter as well as Okongwu and a pick which was more quickly declined. ATL sees Simmons as a Lamar Odom for the Lakers. An super generational 6th man who can play anywhere needed but they do not see him as a starter is what he was told. I did think about it and it made sense. No one currently is on the market right now from Atlanta. They are riding with the current squad.  

POR wanted Simmons for anyone on their roster not named Lillard or RoCo. Everyone else and their assets are fair game. Obviously, that was not appealing. PHI wanted to talk only about Lillard which POR had no interest in moving unless they can get Embiid. These two are miles apart. Don't think if Lillard asked out that PHI has a chance because they don't. They are rubbing each other the wrong way. POR is still interested in Simmons but NOT for Lillard. 

LA called and offered but it was quickly declined before the Russ deal was done and they offered if they would care for Dennis but PHI didn't. 

The teams most interested in Simmons are non-playoff teams. The playoffs teams didn't want him outside of Atlanta who wants to use him as a 6th man. The non-playoff teams wanted him but they don't have what PHI wants. I was told, PHI is overplaying their hand and will end up with less than what NY got for KP when it's all said and done. 

Dame Lillard

He still wants to see changes but their really isn't much other there for what they have to offer. Dame is hoping they can eventually get a 2nd star but knows that's easier said than done. From what I was told, he's not going to ask out since POR FO is extremely transparent with him. Lillard has a lot of suitors. NY, NO, GS, DEN, and MIN are all interested and willing to pay a massive pay to get him. As I said with PHI, these two don't see each other as a trade fit. POR would love Simmons with their current core but PHI hates their pieces outside of Lillard and POR doesn't see Simmons being a centerpiece for Lillard AT ALL. It's unlikely Lillard is leaving POR is the latest he received.  

Bradley Beal

While he would like them to make one more move, he was happy with the moves they made over the summer and is highly liking to resign for the supermax. 

The biggest move that I am hearing about that could happen is Ben Simmons to Cleveland, Minnesota, or Sacramento during the preseason or early part of the season. That's what Ben's team is working on and PHI knows time in not in the favor. The longer they don't see Lillard asking out, the less assumed leverage they have. Everyone thinks Simmons will be moved sooner than later as Simmons is done with PHI. 

Hey someone else said it so I can comment on it.  The above bolded I can confirm I heard as well.

 

So let me talk about the above bolded.  Now that someone else has stated it, I'm comfortable talking about it.  Cam was never in serious danger of being dealt unless Philly accepted Atlanta's original offer which included a 3 way with Minny. Out from Atlanta was Cam/Gallo potential pick. Gallo would have ended up in Minny.  Minny would have offered up the rest of the players to Philly. Memphis' deal with Minny quashed any possibility of it yesterday.  Philly would have had to send a pick + players to Philly to which Philly wasn't really interested in all of the players. But yes your buddies ears heard it partly right. The Cam, Hunter, Okongwu he heard wasn't real and couldn't be because of the cap difference. But I could see how he might suggest it. Philly wanted other players but we didn't have a package for them and it was a 3 team deal scenario. Its why all the Gallo rumors pre draft. It was a market test for Minny seeing if it was worth parting with a draft asset.

The week of the draft I pointed out the Cam/Indy rumors were 100% garbage...we both knew at that time.

I hadn't heard the LAL or Cleveland serious connection for Simmons but not saying its not true. Heard the others though. 

Yes Atlanta tried to move up for 9, 11,13, 16. All were targeting Sengun. I had not heard Primo as a target. They had Sengun in the 8-18 window for where he could go.  Atlanta wanted to hang on to 20 through the process. They felt strongly one of Sengun, another big or JJ would fall to 20 and were willing to wait that out. The move up was purely current assets and/or future assets.  Cooper was nearly not a Hawk as 48 was a part of any move up package.

[sturt]

22 minutes ago, thecampster said:

All were targeting Sengun.

Validating to me.

Early on, I latched on to the general idea that the General would be smart to try his darnedest to acquire a #2 PG via trade so he wouldn't have to get into any bidding wars in FA, and convinced that he'd be naturally allergic to the idea of having a rookie take-on such an important role for a team expecting to contend.

And with that, then, the primary objective for the draft would be to identify the future #2 PF who would ostensibly get a year as the #3. Barnes seemed practically unobtainable. But so I recall posting that if Sengun falls to you at #20, then you run-don't-walk to get that card turned in.

(But it's also true that I never paid any real attention to Jalen until the moment he was announced.)

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

@NBASupes any updates on the team selection of Jalen and how they feel about him?

I haven't asked about the rookies. It was all about what's on the roster and the key players who could be moved.

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I haven't asked about the rookies. It was all about what's on the roster and the key players who could be moved.

I was more thinking about the selection of him.  Seems if they were trying to move up for Primo and Segun, they weren't too high on Jalen going into draft night? I know they didn't work him out and that may be why. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by marco102

[NBASupes]

44 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I was more thinking about the selection of him.  Seems if they were trying to move up for Primo and Segun, they weren't too high on Jalen going into draft night? I know they didn't work him out and that may be why. 

From Travis own mouth, he was high on Jalen but he said he had him in the tier of guys who could be there at 20 and was right. 

Sharife was not expected to be their at 48. They were shocked he was there and they had him much higher than 48th.

[macdaddy]

The Sixers with FVF and OG are much scarier to me than Simmons.  Sixers going to blow it with Simmons

 

On Ingram i thought i heard rumors that Nola wanted to trade him but i could be wrong.   

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

The Sixers with FVF and OG are much scarier to me than Simmons.  Sixers going to blow it with Simmons

 

On Ingram i thought i heard rumors that Nola wanted to trade him but i could be wrong.   

I agree. If I’m Philly I take that deal. They can wait for Lillard all they want he’s not going anywhere. He’s gonna play a season under Billups.

FVV, OG and Embiid are a problem to me. Not to us though lol. 
 

FVV is one of the most underrated guys to me, well prolly not anymore but before his contract, the guy balls out. You can even play him some minutes at SG and opposing SG don’t want to back him down because mainly they can’t despite his height. 
 

If I’m Philly I gotta make a move though. Ben and Embiid won’t win a ring.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

The Sixers with FVF and OG are much scarier to me than Simmons.  Sixers going to blow it with Simmons

 

On Ingram i thought i heard rumors that Nola wanted to trade him but i could be wrong.   

He's not on the market but would be for Dame

[Spud2nique]

Just now, NBASupes said:

He's not on the market but would be for Dame

Neither is Dame.

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Neither is Dame.

That's already been established 

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

That's already been established 

Well you just said for Dame. Lol. 

[kg01]

15 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

The Sixers with FVF and OG are much scarier to me than Simmons.  Sixers going to blow it with Simmons

On Ingram i thought i heard rumors that Nola wanted to trade him but i could be wrong.   

Agreed.  It's why I'm a bit confused why folks have PHI rated so highly.  Simmons trade or return to the lockerroom are both events that'll deflate them quite a bit.

11 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I agree. If I’m Philly I take that deal. They can wait for Lillard all they want he’s not going anywhere. He’s gonna play a season under Billups.

FVV, OG and Embiid are a problem to me. Not to us though lol. 
 

FVV is one of the most underrated guys to me, well prolly not anymore but before his contract, the guy balls out. You can even play him some minutes at SG and opposing SG don’t want to back him down because mainly they can’t despite his height. 
 

If I’m Philly I gotta make a move though. Ben and Embiid won’t win a ring.

I agree with you on most things but I disagree on FVV.  I think he was overrated even before the deal, even more so now that he's expensive.  He, like Siakim, will be getting exposed in the coming year/years.

[Spud2nique]

Just now, kg01 said:

I agree with you on most things but I disagree on FVV.  I think he was overrated even before the deal, even more so now that he's expensive.  He, like Siakim, will be getting exposed in the coming year/years.

Avatar bet? I’m craving somebody’s avatar.

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Avatar bet? I’m craving somebody’s avatar.

You don't want that action, bawse.  FVV is gonna be shootin' like 40% from the field as they fake-tank all year.  Ewww

[RandomFan]

Am I the only one thinking it makes zero sense to entertain the possibility that a max contract Simmons would be viewed as a 6th man type and not a starter? Something had to get lost in translation on that grapevine. 

But yeah,  PHI's overestimation of Simmons value is about as divorced from reality as anti-vaxxers.

[JayBirdHawk]

@NBASupes any update on Huerter's possible extension and Mays' contract situation?

[JayBirdHawk]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Golden State and Atlanta was extremely close to a Cam Reddish/20 for #7 trade. Steph requested them to seriously look into Cam Reddish.

I guess Steph liked what he was when they worked out together last offseason.

[Spud2nique]

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I guess Steph liked what he was when they worked out together last offseason.

Ya he even made a public comment about it that I read a few months back. That would have been a bad deal. 

[NBASupes]

37 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@NBASupes any update on Huerter's possible extension and Mays' contract situation?

In progress, Mays is looking at all of his options. He wants a roster spot but he's looking at European offers. He's looking to see what's best for him long term. As long as he doesn't get a roster spot on another team, we have his rights 

[sturt]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

As long as he doesn't get a roster spot on another team, we have his rights 

Perhaps that's another (but unspoken) reason for not signing anyone for that 15th slot just yet... in case another team would offer a standard contract, and Schlenk has to consider whether to match or not.