Hawks v. Grizzlies

[JTB]

Honestly Cam and Hunter showed enough to be starters so far based on the preseason in my opinion.

it probably won’t happen like that but I feel like they earned their minutes. Bogi is still getting use to Trae right now .

[Peoriabird]

3 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Do you not expect him to tinker with lineups in preseason games?  Thats what the preseason is for and he has a brand new roster with a ton of potential lineups...

You should try shedding your negative disposition once in a while

I don't think you know me personally so stick to the topic.  The topic is about what LB has shown thus far which isn't much.  His teams struggle with same issues year after year. At some point this can't be considered just a coincidence

[Peoriabird]

49 minutes ago, JTB said:

Honestly Cam and Hunter showed enough to be starters so far based on the preseason in my opinion.

it probably won’t happen like that but I feel like they earned their minutes. Bogi is still getting use to Trae right now .

For some reason they appear to have to earn their starting job whereas Bogie seem to get a pass.  But I guess some people are slow to recognize that those 2 are far superior in skill and physical stature to Bogie.

[terrell]

6 hours ago, AHF said:

If three preseason games after 9 months off and turning over half the roster is enough for you to make up your mind, you should never have brought the coach back.  LP is unproven and this season will write his future or the end of his time here.  Time to put up or shut up for him.  I would guess he'll have at least roughly half a season with that minimum scenario one where the team struggles like crazy.

Looking at the Hawks schedule, it could get ugly quick...

[gurpilo]

Bogie today is better player than Cam and Hunter, I repeat today. Of course I see better upside on Cam and Hunter. Bogie is a great addition and we have to consider that all seasons he starts slow and improves a lot as the season advances.

Anyway talking about fit I also think Cam is a better fit for Trae due to his defensive presence, he is on his way to be our best defensive wing. For that reason I would let Cam start and Bogie play with 2nd unit but there are enough minutes for all 3 to be around 30mpg, everybody agrees Hunter should start and for me that is a pleasant surprise.

The odd man out in my opinion is Huerter, he has played really bad these 3 games. On a 2nd unit with Rondo, Bogie, Gallo and probably for now Bruno you need to add defense and shooting, that guy might be Snell or Hill, even Dunn, not Huerter. 
As the season progresses I want to see a 2nd unit of Dunn, Bogie, Snell, Gallo and Okongwu. It might happen that our 2nd unit is top 10 on the league and our starting unit not even top 20, that might imply a great minute distribution on the roster. Rondo and Hill are good vet influence but Rondo is too lazy on defense for regular season, I think we will be better with Dunn at backup PG.

[Gray Mule]

14 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

So sad

Yes.  It's so sad that your dislike for LP has gotten so bad that I fear that it may turn into hate.  If so, no matter what he does or says, will, in your eyes, be wrong.

Every loss will be his fault.  Every victory will be in spite of LP.  You can't be happy unless something goes wrong in every game.  It will all be the fault of LP.

My prayer for you is that you don't go there.  That you don't become that bitter.

In fact, grin every once in a while.  Make people wonder what you've been up to!!

 

[gurpilo]

I don't think is so bad Gray but LP has a team with one star, another player that could be considered a star and a bunch of young and talented players and the team performance was poor. 

2 years later we have one of the best rosters on NBA in depth,  a star, a top 5 C on the east, a top 10 PF and a pletora of valuable wings and PGs and people want to see a growing performance by the team and the performance is discouraging till now, same old weaknesses and we are not even showing our strenghs.

I also blame coach for the lack of performance, you need to perform with this roster.

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, gurpilo said:

Bogie today is better player than Cam and Hunter, I repeat today. Of course I see better upside on Cam and Hunter. Bogie is a great addition and we have to consider that all seasons he starts slow and improves a lot as the season advances.

Anyway talking about fit I also think Cam is a better fit for Trae due to his defensive presence, he is on his way to be our best defensive wing. For that reason I would let Cam start and Bogie play with 2nd unit but there are enough minutes for all 3 to be around 30mpg, everybody agrees Hunter should start and for me that is a pleasant surprise.

The odd man out in my opinion is Huerter, he has played really bad these 3 games. On a 2nd unit with Rondo, Bogie, Gallo and probably for now Bruno you need to add defense and shooting, that guy might be Snell or Hill, even Dunn, not Huerter. 
As the season progresses I want to see a 2nd unit of Dunn, Bogie, Snell, Gallo and Okongwu. It might happen that our 2nd unit is top 10 on the league and our starting unit not even top 20, that might imply a great minute distribution on the roster. Rondo and Hill are good vet influence but Rondo is too lazy on defense for regular season, I think we will be better with Dunn at backup PG.

No, he's not. I don't know how you watched these three games and came away thinking Bogi is better than Cam or Hunter. Watching Bogi this preseason, its not much different than what I seen in Sacramento other than he hasn't found a sweet spot yet role wise which is why he should come off the bench with Gallo for more touches.

Hunter has taken an obvious leap. He's clearly the 2nd best player on the team if this was last year with the way he's playing and he's been the best this year as Trae hasn't been Trae yet. Cam is not far behind. Bogi for the most part was never this superstar potential all star type. He was always a role player who was polished and brings scoring and offensive versatility as his main weapons.

Hunter, the way he's playing is currently better than the best I've seen from Bogi in the NBA as a player outside of hot streaks if this is consistent and not a hot streak for Hunter. 

[NBASupes]

25 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

I don't think is so bad Gray but LP has a team with one star, another player that could be considered a star and a bunch of young and talented players and the team performance was poor. 

2 years later we have one of the best rosters on NBA in depth,  a star, a top 5 C on the east, a top 10 PF and a pletora of valuable wings and PGs and people want to see a growing performance by the team and the performance is discouraging till now, same old weaknesses and we are not even showing our strenghs.

I also blame coach for the lack of performance, you need to perform with this roster.

I just think this team has one star. Two top 65-75 players at PF, I think Gallo is easily better than JC at this stage. Bogi is a top 100 player and Hunter and Reddish have the ability to move into the top 50 as players this year.

Capela is the one player I think will take a massive jump as well from the top 100 to the top 30. Based on his position, his need, and his impact, Capela will be our most important player outside of Trae. 

Trae has to perform at his normal levels and he could easily move up into the top 10-15 if we are winning. If he performs like he's been doing this preseason, we might be in trouble.

Edited December 19, 2020 by NBASupes

[Cwell]

25 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

No, he's not. I don't know how you watched these three games and came away thinking Bogi is better than Cam or Hunter. Watching Bogi this preseason, its not much different than what I seen in Sacramento other than he hasn't found a sweet spot yet role wise which is why he should come off the bench with Gallo for more touches.

Hunter has taken an obvious leap. He's clearly the 2nd best player on the team if this was last year with the way he's playing and he's been the best this year as Trae hasn't been Trae yet. Cam is not far behind. Bogi for the most part was never this superstar potential all star type. He was always a role player who was polished and brings scoring and offensive versatility as his main weapons.

Hunter, the way he's playing is currently better than the best I've seen from Bogi in the NBA as a player outside of hot streaks if this is consistent and not a hot streak for Hunter. 

Yeah i'm not understanding this Bogi hype like was some borderline all-star in Sacramento. Like he was some super key piece that had to be on the floor or your team had no shot. People are talking about him like he was Joe Johnson in Phoenix or something. Dude hasn't even started 100 games in 3 years, Kevin has more than that in 2. Dude's name was never even brought up on this board until this off-season. I've even see people say that he was our 2nd best player, like what? He's a solid rotation piece at wing but not some sure fire starter just because he makes decent money. Every solid player is getting paid nowadays.

The unrealistic expectations are honestly starting to make me not like the signing. It's like he's being given credit for another player's production. You'd think he was Bojan Bogdonovic dropping 18-20 the last 2 years or something. Reminds me of when the Falcons signed Ovie Mughelli, a frickin fullback, to a big 6 year deal. The richest for a FB in history at the time. And people were talking like he was supposed to be our power back Mike Alstott type smh he's a lead blocker, nothing else.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Cwell

[gurpilo]

hace 38 minutos, NBASupes dijo:

No, he's not. I don't know how you watched these three games and came away thinking Bogi is better than Cam or Hunter. Watching Bogi this preseason, its not much different than what I seen in Sacramento other than he hasn't found a sweet spot yet role wise which is why he should come off the bench with Gallo for more touches.

Hunter has taken an obvious leap. He's clearly the 2nd best player on the team if this was last year with the way he's playing and he's been the best this year as Trae hasn't been Trae yet. Cam is not far behind. Bogi for the most part was never this superstar potential all star type. He was always a role player who was polished and brings scoring and offensive versatility as his main weapons.

Hunter, the way he's playing is currently better than the best I've seen from Bogi in the NBA as a player outside of hot streaks if this is consistent and not a hot streak for Hunter. 

I think we don't think so different.

I am not ready to jump to conclusions in 3 preseason games and I think is a mistake. Hunter a d Cam were below average wings on the league last year. That is a fact, you can build arguments based on March played games but that does not delete the truth, they were below average on offense and defense. Bogdanovic on the orher side is a slightly above average wing, that is a fact as well.

I do see an improvement on Cam and Hunter, I am not blind, I saw the improvement on Cam last games on the season and I see the improvement on Hunter this preseason... but they need to prove they can bring consistently that offensive and defensive production every night and that is not proven yet. As you are doing I could also take 15 games on a row for Bogi and make a case he is an all-star but I know season is long and you need to take into account full year performance.

I am not hyping Bogi, I think he is slightly above average wing, that is it, and I am right looking at every metric you can find. All of you are hyping Cam and Hunter, 2 players that played poorly most of the year saying they are already better than Bogie. Do I think they can become better than him? Yeah but they need to demonstrate first they are average wings, something they are not yet. And you know what? That is exactly where you would expect a 2nd year player to be. Expecting them to be top 50 players is completely unrealistic.

[gurpilo]

hace 40 minutos, Cwell dijo:

Yeah i'm not understanding this Bogi hype like was some borderline all-star in Sacramento. Like he was some super key piece that had to be on the floor or your team had no shot. People are talking about him like he was Joe Johnson in Phoenix or something. Dude hasn't even started 100 games in 3 years, Kevin has more than that in 2. Dude's name was never even brought up on this board until this off-season. I've even see people say that he was our 2nd best player, like what? He's a solid rotation piece at wing but not some sure fire starter just because he makes decent money. Every solid player is getting paid nowadays.

The unrealistic expectations are honestly starting to make me not like the signing. It's like he's being given credit for another player's production. You'd think he was Bojan Bogdonovic dropping 18-20 the last 2 years or something. Reminds me of when the Falcons signed Ovie Mughelli, a frickin fullback, to a big 6 year deal. The richest for a FB in history at the time. And people were talking like he was supposed to be our power back Mike Alstott type smh he's a lead blocker, nothing else.

As I said I am not hyping Bogi, I think he is a top100 player, slightly above average wing. On the other side I think people are hyping Dre and Cam, be patient with the kids, they need to demonstrate first they are average wings.

I don't have unrealistic expectations for Bogi, I think he should be fine to repeat same numbers in Sacramento, with slight chances to improve them a little bases on the bigger role he is supposed to play here.

Edited December 19, 2020 by gurpilo

[gurpilo]

hace 56 minutos, NBASupes dijo:

I just think this team has one star. Two top 65-75 players at PF, I think Gallo is easily better than JC at this stage. Bogi is a top 100 player and Hunter and Reddish have the ability to move into the top 50 as players this year.

Capela is the one player I think will take a massive jump as well from the top 100 to the top 30. Based on his position, his need, and his impact, Capela will be our most important player outside of Trae. 

Trae has to perform at his normal levels and he could easily move up into the top 10-15 if we are winning. If he performs like he's been doing this preseason, we might be in trouble.

I agree with everything except Collins. Collins is better player than Gallo, I agree he has played poorly on preseason, same as Trae. I also agree his fit with Capela is concerning but he is a top 10 PF on the league, he should be fine. Gallo is a fantastic player but is not better than Collins, I could buy they are even but Gallo is going down and Collins is going up.

Also I think is unrealistic to expect Cam and Hunter on the top 50. I would be the happiest man on the world but is not happening. Think other way, a team with a top 15 player, top 30 player in Capela as you are suggesting, top 50 player in Collins and 2 other players in top 50 with a deep bench..... that team should be fine for a championship run and we are not there.

[gurpilo]

Take Raptor, WAR, VORP.... all of them have Young top 15, Collins top 50, Bogi top 100, Capela top 80..... and you need to slide to the bottom to find Cam, Hunter and Huerter, I am not worried but they need to prove first they are legit starters.

Is also true Gallo is top 40, even top 30 but I think his role should go down.

And finally Christian Wood, I was hoping us to sign him this offseason, I prayed footprints it several times.... he is top 50 on any metric you can find and he is going to prove doubters were wrong. In my mind a better signing than Gallo due to youth and fit (defense and shot blocking, can also play C). Houston made a home run there.

[JayBirdHawk]

All I need is for Bogi to be better than Crabbe and Turner.

[RedDawg#8]

I hope Bogi is everything we dreamed of and more. But even if he is, I STILL think Cam and Dre have more talent to work with. Plus size and length.

[Cwell]

1 hour ago, gurpilo said:

Take Raptor, WAR, VORP.... all of them have Young top 15, Collins top 50, Bogi top 100, Capela top 80..... and you need to slide to the bottom to find Cam, Hunter and Huerter, I am not worried but they need to prove first they are legit starters.

Is also true Gallo is top 40, even top 30 but I think his role should go down.

And finally Christian Wood, I was hoping us to sign him this offseason, I prayed footprints it several times.... he is top 50 on any metric you can find and he is going to prove doubters were wrong. In my mind a better signing than Gallo due to youth and fit (defense and shot blocking, can also play C). Houston made a home run there.

None of those weirdo manufactured stats mean anything to me. They're for people that never hooped a day in their life. All I know is the fact that Dre and Cam play both ends of the floor, alone kills that Bogi is clearly better argument.

[marco102]

1 hour ago, Cwell said:

None of those weirdo manufactured stats mean anything to me. They're for people that never hooped a day in their life. All I know is the fact that Dre and Cam play both ends of the floor, alone kills that Bogi is clearly better argument.

Bogi's defense is underrated though.  He'll struggle with the quicker guards like Dre (last season, he seems much improved in preseason, but take that with a grain of salt), but he'll defend bigger stronger guards much better.  He understands team defense which can't be underrated. 

I don't care who starts, plays most minutes, or finishes and honestly don't understand why we as fans get so upset about it.  As long as the Hawks are winning, the minutes will work themselves out. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by marco102

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, gurpilo said:

Take Raptor, WAR, VORP.... all of them have Young top 15, Collins top 50, Bogi top 100, Capela top 80..... and you need to slide to the bottom to find Cam, Hunter and Huerter, I am not worried but they need to prove first they are legit starters.

Is also true Gallo is top 40, even top 30 but I think his role should go down.

And finally Christian Wood, I was hoping us to sign him this offseason, I prayed footprints it several times.... he is top 50 on any metric you can find and he is going to prove doubters were wrong. In my mind a better signing than Gallo due to youth and fit (defense and shot blocking, can also play C). Houston made a home run there.

Lol, none of this is accurate. Like not one thing, even the positive. I'll deal with this post later but its wrong.

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, gurpilo said:

I think we don't think so different.

I am not ready to jump to conclusions in 3 preseason games and I think is a mistake. Hunter a d Cam were below average wings on the league last year. That is a fact, you can build arguments based on March played games but that does not delete the truth, they were below average on offense and defense. Bogdanovic on the orher side is a slightly above average wing, that is a fact as well.

I do see an improvement on Cam and Hunter, I am not blind, I saw the improvement on Cam last games on the season and I see the improvement on Hunter this preseason... but they need to prove they can bring consistently that offensive and defensive production every night and that is not proven yet. As you are doing I could also take 15 games on a row for Bogi and make a case he is an all-star but I know season is long and you need to take into account full year performance.

I am not hyping Bogi, I think he is slightly above average wing, that is it, and I am right looking at every metric you can find. All of you are hyping Cam and Hunter, 2 players that played poorly most of the year saying they are already better than Bogie. Do I think they can become better than him? Yeah but they need to demonstrate first they are average wings, something they are not yet. And you know what? That is exactly where you would expect a 2nd year player to be. Expecting them to be top 50 players is completely unrealistic.

I mean, I value the improvement of Hunter and Reddish. Reddish has Jan till now of quality production where he has a WAR of 2.8 during the last season of the Jan to Mar period and his preseason has been nothing short of productive. He's 2nd on the team with a PIE in the 15 range behind Hunter. 

As for Hunter, yes, we only have these three preseason games to go by but we have the same for THT and everyone that's NBA are giving him credit for improvement but Hawk players gotta prove it right? Bullshit!

It's not that hard to be in the top 50 if you are as gifted and talented as they are and two way players. Yeah, its tough for someone like Bogi or Kevin to be a top 50 player. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by NBASupes