No Extension for John Collins

[terrell]

"I kinda wonder if Schlenk looks at Collins a little differently than Trae, Huerter, Hunter, and Cam

Collins was a value pick. The Hawks picked him in the late teens because he was the best player on their board, not because he was specifically targeted by them. This is very different from Trae and Hunter (whom they targeted and maneuvered to select), Huerter (whom they were trying to trade up for), and Cam (who was rumored to be targeted by them all year before they drafted him)......

I wouldn’t be surprised if Schlenk’s ideal vision for a team included players like Trae, Huerter, Hunter, and Reddish but not Collins. Or to put it differently, Schlenk may value (and may have always valued) Collins as a trade piece more than as a core player"

Edited December 22, 2020 by terrell

[JeffS17]

5 minutes ago, terrell said:

"I kinda wonder if Schlenk looks at Collins a little differently than Trae, Huerter, Hunter, and Cam

Collins was a value pick. The Hawks picked him in the late teens because he was the best player on their board, not because he was specifically targeted by them. This is very different from Trae and Hunter (whom they targeted and maneuvered to select), Huerter (whom they were trying to trade up for), and Cam (who was rumored to be targeted by them all year before they drafted him)......

I wouldn’t be surprised if Schlenk’s ideal vision for a team included players like Trae, Huerter, Hunter, and Reddish but not Collins. Or to put it differently, Schlenk may value (and may have always valued) Collins as a trade piece more than as a core player"

I think this is on the money... feels very likely Collins has been seen as a trade piece for about a year now.  I wouldn't be surprised if they were actively shopping him in packages for an all-star.  I don't hate that either because Trae/Cam/Hunter/Capela is a nice core to build around and hopefully Heurter can improve a lot as well.  We spent money to start winning this offseason but the contracts like up nicely for when we will need to pay our young guys.  The more I think about it the more I will be surprised if Collins is still on this team in 2 years.

[AHF]

This isn't surprising to me.  Again, I'm guessing that the amount JC was seeking was close to a max deal in which case there isn't a big downside to waiting and seeing next summer. 

But that is just my guess.  I hope we get a report of what JC wanted because that is the only way we get any real sense of what the risk / reward dynamic is for both sides.

Either way, I'm hoping for a Brandon Ingram scenario where he takes a big step forward and gets his max next summer.  

[Diesel]

Is it possible that Luka could force his way to Atlanta?

Ask the Mavs to trade:

Collins/Bogi/Cam/1st  for Luka/THJ before the deadline?

I always thought that Luka and Trae has a great respect for one another. 

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

This isn't surprising to me.  Again, I'm guessing that the amount JC was seeking was close to a max deal in which case there isn't a big downside to waiting and seeing next summer. 

But that is just my guess.  I hope we get a report of what JC wanted because that is the only way we get any real sense of what the risk / reward dynamic is for both sides.

Either way, I'm hoping for a Brandon Ingram scenario where he takes a big step forward and gets his max next summer.  

Johnathan Isaac just got 4 yr/80 mil and has been injured most of his career. JC's camp was probably asking for a max, or at least a near max. Like you said, if we aren't getting him at a discount may as well just wait.

[bleachkit]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Is it possible that Luka could force his way to Atlanta?

Ask the Mavs to trade:

Collins/Bogi/Cam/1st  for Luka/THJ before the deadline?

I always thought that Luka and Trae has a great respect for one another. 

Luka seems pretty happy in Dallas, and he is only in his third year. Maybe 10 years from now when Luka is 31 he might force his way to the Hawks.

[sturt]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

Only way that changes is if some inexplicable deal emerges at the trade deadline where we get an offer we can't refuse--though I really scratch my head at who/what would come our way.

 

 

Hmmm... question answered.

 

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Luka seems pretty happy in Dallas, and he is only in his third year. Maybe 10 years from now when Luka is 31 he might force his way to the Hawks.

That would be kinda a super team:  Trae, Luka, Gallo and Clint. 

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

That would be kinda a super team:  Trae, Luka, Gallo and Clint. 

We are about as likely to get LeBron as Luka. That's not happening.

[Diesel]

What nobody is saying is what I said a while back...

The signing of Gallo and the pick up of OO sucked up all of Collins leverage.   We still don't know how Schlenk feels about the suspension.   We feel that we are locked in at every position but what about a trade??  Who would we want?

All I know is that Snell+Collins puts us from about 17-21 Million for trade. 

 

 

[RandomFan]

A lot of people seem to be overlooking one thing: power forward depth in the NBA right now is...bad. It's probably the weakest position. 

That is going to raise JCs value in the long run. 

[JTB]

6 hours ago, terrell said:

"I kinda wonder if Schlenk looks at Collins a little differently than Trae, Huerter, Hunter, and Cam

Collins was a value pick. The Hawks picked him in the late teens because he was the best player on their board, not because he was specifically targeted by them. This is very different from Trae and Hunter (whom they targeted and maneuvered to select), Huerter (whom they were trying to trade up for), and Cam (who was rumored to be targeted by them all year before they drafted him)......

I wouldn’t be surprised if Schlenk’s ideal vision for a team included players like Trae, Huerter, Hunter, and Reddish but not Collins. Or to put it differently, Schlenk may value (and may have always valued) Collins as a trade piece more than as a core player"

Good points ....I too have questioned Schlenks love for JC as a core player here as well (check my threads)....I do think there’s a chance we keep collins but I was on the fence about what would happen .

my first prediction was JC would have to prove it this summer and I never expected an extension. Then after we had this good offseason I started thinking well if JC can be had for a good price then why wait ?? But the question is what was the good price considered???

obviously Schlenk and the front office did show interest to wanting to keep JC as they did give him an offer...but he didn’t like what was offered as his agent said JC feels he’s a maxed player.

Likely the hawks value JC probably as a near max player maybe a little bit less. Therefore as I predicted the first time around JC is going to have to prove it! And he’s no longer the ONLY good big man on the team anymore. 
 

im more interested in how he sticks out. He will still be a starter and still get plenty of minutes. His scoring role in terms of how he scores has changed due to the addition of capela mainly but they’ve known this for months now so it’s not really an excuse. The coaching staff and the players themselves should have been trying to figure this out from the get go....Collins has to prove he’s still the 20/10 guy this team needs and his defense will surely need to trend up.

[mrhonline]

I don't share the optimism of a lot of you.

1. Unless John regresses, he's getting a max offer of 4/125. (And there's a good chance that 4th year is a PO).

2. I don't think the Hawks want to pay John what his market value will be.

3. I don't think they're willing to trade him either.

We'll see...

[bleachkit]

2 minutes ago, mrhonline said:

I don't share the optimism of a lot of you.

1. Unless John regresses, he's getting a max offer of 4/125. (And there's a good chance that 4th year is a PO).

2. I don't think the Hawks want to pay John what his market value will be.

3. I don't think they're willing to trade him either.

We'll see...

If he maintains his numbers from last year then yes, he's getting a monster deal. 

[sturt]

11 hours ago, sturt said:

Have no doubt that if JC continues current trajectory, he'll remain a Hawk, though he'll get paid a little more than Ressler/Schlenk offered. Our FO holds the power (obviously).

Only way that changes is if some inexplicable deal emerges at the trade deadline where we get an offer we can't refuse--though I really scratch my head at who/what would come our way.

If he plateaus, then things become more dicey.

I don't hate this situation where JC is concerned so much as I hate it for the message it sends to Cam, DHunt and Velvet, ie,"Maybe it's smart to care more about your own stats than it is your contribution to the overall team--ultimately, you will be squeezed because ultimately, for all of the talk about pursuing something better than an 8th seed, this is a business."

 

Was reminded of this scenario, further validating the point...

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/chicago-bulls-jimmy-butler-leverage-free-agency-2015-6

[NBASupes]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

What nobody is saying is what I said a while back...

The signing of Gallo and the pick up of OO sucked up all of Collins leverage.   We still don't know how Schlenk feels about the suspension.   We feel that we are locked in at every position but what about a trade??  Who would we want?

All I know is that Snell+Collins puts us from about 17-21 Million for trade. 

 

 

When I said that, there was a JC legion that was mad at me.

[mrhonline]

It's also worth mentioning now rather than later that Collins will be "poison-pill'd" next year, which makes trading him in a S&T very difficult unless it's to a team below the cap.

[bleachkit]

JC is getting paid big time. If not by us , than by another team.

[macdaddy]

Regarding the 'max qualifying offer' that sounds like basically a crappy thing to do to a player like JC.  Seems like it would guarantee him wanting out. 

If our goal is to be a competitive playoff team and hopefully soon a contender then I'm not seeing Gallo and OO as answers at PF.   I mean we don't want to pay JC because of his defensive issues but we think Gallo is the answer?  Not buying that.

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

JC is getting paid big time. If not by us , than by another team.

That's the truth.

[Diesel]

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

When I said that, there was a JC legion that was mad at me.

Well, people see the 20/10 Collins.  That's great.. and his shooting from outside is a plus but we go out and draft Bam.  We go out and get Gallo....   the 20/10 Collins is good trade material.   Even with us making an offer, it was probably a low market offer so that we can keep the trade options open.   I suppose that this will be a showcase season for JC.