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No Extension for John Collins


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1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

There was a time not so long ago when we had no one that could get us freethrows, I'm not gonna complain. Get them freethrows Trae.

We once had ZERO Freethrows in a half during the Josh Smoth error. 🤨

lol fair enough, i try not to think about the prime j smoove era

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On 1/10/2021 at 1:15 PM, bleachkit said:

I'm done with building around Trae. Yes he puts up big counting stats in the scoring and assists columns but...He's too inconsistent, too inefficient, too defensively poor to be worth building around. While he is a great passer and a crafty scorer, he is not a great floor general. Dribbles too much, takes shots that he shouldn't, and cant play off the ball. And he cant guard a lamp post. That's not a player you build around. 

Do you still feel the same about this or was this just an emotional rant? 

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5 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

It depends on your definition of "build around". Should we keep him? Yes. Should he the sun that that the Hawks universe revolves around in terms of every personnel decision? No. 

Fair enough.  I mean I don't agree, but fair enough.  

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And again, the key to making it all work has been Collins' versatility. Yes, he can certainly function as a rim protector, but one of the Collins/Capela pairing is going to end up guarding a non-center. Collins has made that arrangement work by improving his perimeter defense. Pierce said that it was most noticeable in the back-to-back games against Brooklyn where Collins did a credible job against Kevin Durant.  

The 2020-21 season is going to be one of adjustment for Collins. His game is going to look different. His numbers are going to look different. His shapeshifting role necessitates a statistical viewpoint that takes into consideration his many responsibilities and competencies. Through 14 games, his motor has been as high as any Hawk in terms of effort and high-energy consistency.

Collins himself is ready to do whatever the task requires, presenting himself as a Swiss Army knife ready to pair with his Swiss center counterpart.

"I really feel that the biggest thing is us being able to have a yin-and-yang relationship with (Capela) being able to dominate around the rim and myself obviously trying to improve on all areas of my game. I feel like for me the next step is to do what I'm doing now and space out on the perimeter, start making some plays, and be able to create that space for both of us to work together."

Of course, John Collins, Professional Roll Man, hasn't gone anywhere. After the first game against Brooklyn, Durant paid him the highest of compliments. "John Collins is probably the best in the league at slipping out of screens."

The Hawks still plan to use him in that role; it's just that Danilo Gallinari has only played two games due to injury, and Collins has spent less time at center next to a floor-spacing power forward.

A lot of basketball remains to be played. John Collins is ready to roll with whatever style of play his team needs.

 

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Props to JC man. After all the offseason back and forth you see that he can certainly help a winning team. He still has those stat stuffing games in his bag, but he also can play as a role player to free up his teammates.

His defense has gotten better right before our eyes, even from game 1 this season to now. Clint and he are finding an amazing rhythm with each other.

I love our dominance on the glass thanks to our twin towers leading the way.

JC is a pros pro, just cant say enough about him.

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He is playing great, on RAPTOR he is he 10th player and although he is clearly losing his role on offense he is making a very good duo with Capela who is 20 and going up.

Hunter has been terrific as well, 35. They are a really good foundation for a good team.

Now Young needs to continue finding his touch on offense and cutting his TO. Pierce needs to find a way to play through traps and feed Collins and Capela more on the post where we are really effective.

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Collins’ offensive role has evolved

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With Capela on the floor with him, Collins’ offensive game has shifted to being more of a shooter than a roller. Last season, Collins had 5.1 pick-and-roll plays per game, the third most in the league. He scored 1.31 points per possession on pick-and-rolls and finished in the 82nd percentile in effectiveness.

This season, Collins only has received 2.6 pick-and-roll plays per game, is scoring 0.78 points per possession and is in the 11th percentile in effectiveness. Capela actually has 2.4 pick-and-roll plays per game, but Capela’s presence — and Hunter’s emergence, too — certainly has changed how the Hawks use Collins on offense. Collins went from 67.5 touches and 9.4 paint touches per game last season to 57.2 touches and 6.9 paint touches per game this season.

Fifty-five percent of Collins’ shot attempts came at the rim last season, but only 47 percent have come at the rim this season. Collins has had to adjust his game to the Hawks’ roster, and, to his credit, he’s succeeded at doing so. Collins ranked 11th in the NBA entering Wednesday’s game in Wins Above Replacement.

Though Collins’ numbers likely won’t end up being what they were last year, he’s still a tremendously effective player who contributes to winning basketball. Full stop. The Hawks are 17.4 points better with Collins on the floor. This is not by accident.

Atlanta Hawks: De'Andre Hunter's growth, John Collins' role – The Athletic

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The Atlanta Hawks (11-13)

The John Collins situation in Atlanta will be worth watching as the deadline nears.

Despite the fact that he didn’t come to terms on an extension in the brief offseason, and that so many rival executives believe his NBA future will eventually be elsewhere as a result, there’s a complicating element that is coming into play: He’s a pivotal part of their team right now. And considering the widely-known reality that the playoffs are a massive priority for owner Tony Ressler & Co., that makes the prospect of trading Collins quite tricky.

No matter how much interest there might be.

Entering Friday’s game against San Antonio, Collins is second on the team behind Trae Young in scoring (18.5 points per game), second behind Clint Capela in rebounding (7.8 per), second behind Capela in blocks (one per), and third in minutes behind Young and DeAndre Hunter (31.9). Even if there was a quality deal to be had that added future assets, his production in the present is so crucial that it appears unlikely that he’ll be on the move. Nonetheless, sources say the Hawks have shown a willingness to listen to offers for Collins (this should surprise no one).

In the macro, where Collins’ choice to turn down an extension worth more than $90 million made it clear that he was looking for a bigger payday than the Hawks are comfortable providing, these dynamics remain the same. Collins, who is a restricted free agent this summer, sees himself as a max player and the Hawks don’t. Still, the fact that they need him right now could win out during their push for the playoffs before the process plays out in the offseason.

 

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The evidence is undeniable that this team doesn't work without Collins.   Could we replace him?  Yeah maybe but how long will that take to find someone.   Pay the man.   Trae/Collins/Capela are the core of this team.  Hopefully we add Hunter to that.    Everyone else is replaceable but how nice is it to have PG/SF/PF/C wrapped up with very young guys. 

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And just to be clear I hope mgt is talking to him now saying : you're our number one priority to get signed long term, we were wrong not getting it done last summer.   But in reality I think the decision not to get the extension done was probably not as contentious as we think and JC understands it.  I hope that's the case. 

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2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

The evidence is undeniable that this team doesn't work without Collins.   Could we replace him?  Yeah maybe but how long will that take to find someone.   Pay the man.   Trae/Collins/Capela are the core of this team.  Hopefully we add Hunter to that.    Everyone else is replaceable but how nice is it to have PG/SF/PF/C wrapped up with very young guys. 

Agreed, and I imagine moving assets for that 1 missing piece at shooting guard is a lot easier to pull off in isolation than trying to find pillars at the 2 and the 4 at the same time.

Its clear where our weakest link is in the starting unit, no need to create another hole just to save a buck when its looking more and more likely that nobody else from the young core will ever be worth what JC and eventually Dre will end up with.

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

And just to be clear I hope mgt is talking to him now saying : you're our number one priority to get signed long term, we were wrong not getting it done last summer.   But in reality I think the decision not to get the extension done was probably not as contentious as we think and JC understands it.  I hope that's the case. 

Most definitely I agree

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Thing is he seems to be still getting better, overall.  If we can give.cam as much chance as possible to see this year and if not, then we need sign JC, unless we can trade for an equivalent 2 guard that would make it worth the replacement. I don't think any team is doing that in modern nba 

Edited by hylndr11
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25 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

And just to be clear I hope mgt is talking to him now saying : you're our number one priority to get signed long term, we were wrong not getting it done last summer.   But in reality I think the decision not to get the extension done was probably not as contentious as we think and JC understands it.  I hope that's the case. 

I don't think you do this unless you are willing to give him a max right out of the gate.  If the Hawks are contemplating matching an offer sheet, etc. to try to get less than the max then there is no need to apologize or anything.  I think the decision to wait was sound even knowing I want him resigned long-term.  He has shown more this season defensively than he has ever shown.  That is a reason to increase his pay from our offer.  If he had regressed, that would be a reason to pay him less than our last offer, etc.  Seeing him with a more competitive cast of players was good intel to set his true market.

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2 minutes ago, AHF said:

I don't think you do this unless you are willing to give him a max right out of the gate.  If the Hawks are contemplating matching an offer sheet, etc. to try to get less than the max then there is no need to apologize or anything.  I think the decision to wait was sound even knowing I want him resigned long-term.  He has shown more this season defensively than he has ever shown.  That is a reason to increase his pay from our offer.  If he had regressed, that would be a reason to pay him less than our last offer, etc.  Seeing him with a more competitive cast of players was good intel to set his true market.

Yeah.  I know it's probably not a good negotiating tactic but as we've seen just being able to match sometimes isn't the battle.  Players can  force their way out if unhappy these days.

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12 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Yeah.  I know it's probably not a good negotiating tactic but as we've seen just being able to match sometimes isn't the battle.  Players can  force their way out if unhappy these days.

I may be naïve but I'm just not seeing signals that JC is ready to force his way out of town.  

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1 hour ago, AHF said:

I don't think you do this unless you are willing to give him a max right out of the gate.  If the Hawks are contemplating matching an offer sheet, etc. to try to get less than the max then there is no need to apologize or anything.  I think the decision to wait was sound even knowing I want him resigned long-term.  He has shown more this season defensively than he has ever shown.  That is a reason to increase his pay from our offer.  If he had regressed, that would be a reason to pay him less than our last offer, etc.  Seeing him with a more competitive cast of players was good intel to set his true market.

Yes, so true.

I too believe we played the best hand from an organization perspective. JC is willing to gamble on his FA value, but if we are comfortable matching regardless, then it wont matter in the end

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