No Extension for John Collins

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, terrell said:

He could see this year as pretty much a wash, with all of the injuries, no practices, etc... Idk..

By the trade deadline, March 25th, we will know the likely fate of the season. But I doubt a JC trade happens honestly. Draft is a crap shoot honestly.

[terrell]

9 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

By the trade deadline, March 25th, we will know the likely fate of the season. But I doubt a JC trade happens honestly. Draft is a crap shoot honestly.

Maybe he believes we can’t contend with the roster we have now... So if we get a high lottery pick it would give us more cap and allow us to get Suggs, Cade, or someone like that. Then we'd have more freedom going forward....But yeah, I doubt it happens..lol

Edited February 15, 2021 by terrell

[Wretch]

Y'know...the more I think about it, the less it makes sense.  A lottery pick is not what we need .  Not at all.  We are making a clear push for the playoffs and this is going to be the theme next season as well.  Travis has also shown himself to be a reasonably competent GM thus far.  So if we're really targeting a lottery pick, then it's definitely on the move elsewhere.  I have a sneaking suspicious as to where...but I'mma keep my mouth shut and just watch for now....

[bleachkit]

17 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Y'know...the more I think about it, the less it makes sense.  A lottery pick is not what we need .  Not at all.  We are making a clear push for the playoffs and this is going to be the theme next season as well.  Travis has also shown himself to be a reasonably competent GM thus far.  So if we're really targeting a lottery pick, then it's definitely on the move elsewhere.  I have a sneaking suspicious as to where...but I'mma keep my mouth shut and just watch for now....

People are overreacting to the fact we didnt get a deal done last summer. The same situation occurred with Brandon Ingram, and he ended getting a max. Like us, the Pelicans were hoping they could get him a lesser price to help with financial flexibility going forward, but they ended maxing him. So, TS and company would not be thrilled with giving JC a max, but they are sure as heck aren't trading him for fish heads and rice.

[Wretch]

Just now, bleachkit said:

People are overreacting to the fact we didnt get a deal done last summer. The same situation occurred with Brandon Ingram, and he ended getting a max. Like us, the Pelicans were hoping they could get him a lesser price to help with financial flexibility going forward, but they ended maxing him. So, TS and company would not be thrilled with giving JC a max, but they are sure as heck aren't trading him for fish heads and rice.

I'm inclined to agree.  I see a reasonable overpayment in his future and have always expected as much.  Collins completes our front court and he's worth it.  I don't know what we're going to do if he wants more than a reasonable overpayment, but I know what we're NOT doing.  We're not trading him for a lottery pick.  Everything about that just sends the wrong message.  There's more to that story (or there's nothing to it at all).

[JayBirdHawk]

25 minutes ago, terrell said:

Maybe he believes we can’t contend with the roster we have now... So if we get a high lottery pick it would give us more cap and allow us to get Suggs, Cade, or someone like that. Then we'd have more freedom going forward....But yeah, I doubt it happens..lol

Ha.  We won't have any meaningful capspace by trading JC. We have $103 in guaranteed contracts for next season including JCs $5.8 mil QO,  add Dunn's $5 mil PO we'll be at $108. A High lottery pick starting salary will probably cost more than the $5.8 mil for JC.

For reference Okongwu's salary this season as the #6 pick is $5.8 mil, same as JCs QO next season.

[terrell]

8 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Ha.  We won't have any meaningful capspace by trading JC. We have $103 in guaranteed contracts for next season including JCs $5.8 mil QO,  add Dunn's $5 mil PO we'll be at $108. A High lottery pick starting salary will probably cost more than the $5.8 mil for JC.

For reference Okongwu's salary this season as the #6 pick is $5.8 mil, same as JCs QO next season.

Going forward I meant.....

Edited February 15, 2021 by terrell

[NBASupes]

Not be an idiot, but with the playoff race being so close in both conferences and the 9/10 playin game, couldn't this trade just end up being a mid 1st anyway. 

I spoke to my guy about it and he said teams don't get the idea that Atlanta is just willing to give him away or trade him for anything less than big. 

One of the teams interested in JC is Cleveland. Another team is our division rivals, Washington Wizards who still want to retain Beal. I just don't know, none of these teams are out as far as the playoffs are concerned. 

He was told injuries did have a role in where Atlanta maybe going and they are still not convinced they have the right core that will win a title. It seems like we are willing to have one more year in the lottery due to injuries. Also, Rondo is being shopped as is Tony Snell. 

I was told Atlanta is unwilling to move the other young players like Okongwu, Reddish, Huerter, Trae, Hunter and yes, Fernando. They aren't going to sale players short basically. 

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

People are overreacting to the fact we didnt get a deal done last summer. The same situation occurred with Brandon Ingram, and he ended getting a max. Like us, the Pelicans were hoping they could get him a lesser price to help with financial flexibility going forward, but they ended maxing him. So, TS and company would not be thrilled with giving JC a max, but they are sure as heck aren't trading him for fish heads and rice.

There is also a wide range of dollars between the 4/$90 ($20, $21.5, $23.5, $25) the Hawks offereded and 4/$122 ($27, $29, $31, $33) The max. There is a chance for a happy medium somewhere there.

[NBASupes]

One thing a lot of ya'll don't realize is the difference between trading JC now and in November was JC value was his value + our pick to get #1. His value right now is extremely high and due to the weaker than expected FA market for many teams, many want to get out in front of him and he's probably the most improved FA coming into FA as well. He tremendously improved his value.

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, terrell said:

Going forward I meant.....

If we are concerned about long term money, I'd move Gallo first.

[terrell]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Not be an idiot, but with the playoff race being so close in both conferences and the 9/10 playin game, couldn't this trade just end up being a mid 1st anyway. 

I spoke to my guy about it and he said teams don't get the idea that Atlanta is just willing to give him away or trade him for anything less than big. 

One of the teams interested in JC is Cleveland. Another team is our division rivals, Washington Wizards who still want to retain Beal. I just don't know, none of these teams are out as far as the playoffs are concerned. 

He was told injuries did have a role in where Atlanta maybe going and they are still not convinced they have the right core that will win a title. It seems like we are willing to have one more year in the lottery due to injuries. Also, Rondo is being shopped as is Tony Snell. 

I was told Atlanta is unwilling to move the other young players like Okongwu, Reddish, Huerter, Trae, Hunter and yes, Fernando. They aren't going to sale players short basically. 

Did Travis sign Rondo just to trade him for assets? Or has he just been that bad of a flop? 

[macdaddy]

21 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

People are overreacting to the fact we didnt get a deal done last summer. The same situation occurred with Brandon Ingram, and he ended getting a max. Like us, the Pelicans were hoping they could get him a lesser price to help with financial flexibility going forward, but they ended maxing him. So, TS and company would not be thrilled with giving JC a max, but they are sure as heck aren't trading him for fish heads and rice.

Well I may not remember correctly but seems like there were almost no BI trade rumors because the Pels made it known that they were going to re-sign him?   And didn't they give him the max before he even got other offers?   

[NBASupes]

Just now, terrell said:

Did Travis sign Rondo just to trade him for assets? Or has he just been that bad of a flop? 

Flop. They knew he wasn't great in the regular season but he hasn't even been healthy and when he has, it's been a disaster. He's been great in the locker room and for the development of some of our players including Trae and JC. He adds value but the lack of backup PG play is killing Atlanta again. 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Well I may not remember correctly but seems like there were almost no BI trade rumors because the Pels made it known that they were going to re-sign him?   And didn't they give him the max before he even got other offers?   

None. Teams called but New Orleans were convinced he was a max player. Atlanta has always seen JC in a certain tier and while his improve and helped and puts him in a tier they are comfortable with, he's still not on that level to where BI is to them or most teams.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Well I may not remember correctly but seems like there were almost no BI trade rumors because the Pels made it known that they were going to re-sign him?   And didn't they give him the max before he even got other offers?   

They made it clear early on they would match any offers he received.  No team offered him a deal though, he was eventually resigned on November 30th, 10 days after FA started.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

None. Teams called but New Orleans were convinced he was a max player. Atlanta has always seen JC in a certain tier and while his improve and helped and puts him in a tier they are comfortable with, he's still not on that level to where BI is to them or most teams.

Which is why if it's true that we're willing to match a max offer then I think we're being foolish screwing around with negotiating games only to try to shave a little off (i know a little is a lot but still).   Totally agree i'm probably over reacting but trade rumors + losing has a way of screwing things up. 

[terrell]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If we are concerned about long term money, I'd move Gallo first.

Gonna be hard to move dead legs Gallo Im afraid.....Btw, I still dont believe Travis like the Collins/Capela pairing on offense..I think he wants more of a playmaker type at PF,(someone who can go get you a bucket) to take pressure off of Trae..Siakam type. But IDK...Building around Trae isnt gonna be easy. I mean,  its not like we were world beaters with Collins/Capela/Hunter/Bogi all in the lineup..We were blowing leads to Cleveland/NY way back then..smh

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, terrell said:

Gonna be hard to move dead legs Gallo Im afraid.....Btw, I still dont believe Travis like the Collins/Capela pairing on offense..I think he wants more of a playmaker type at PF,(someone who can go get you a bucket) to take pressure off of Trae..Siakam type. But IDK...Building around Trae isnt gonna be easy. I mean,  its not like we were world beaters with Collins/Capela/Hunter/Bogi all in the lineup..We were blowing leads to Cleveland/NY way back then..smh

Ideally, every team wants a play making PF.  How about if we had a playmaking SG or SF too or a playmaking PG too. Sigh.

 

[terrell]

17 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If we are concerned about long term money, I'd move Gallo first.

Id be trying to include him in any deal..lol

Edited February 15, 2021 by terrell