No Extension for John Collins

[BangHolman]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

People like to used Sabonis as his comparison and that Indy was a winning team etc. without taking into account their roster and starting lineup - Sabonis was coming off the bench averaging 14/8 when he got his deal with a lower salary cap. (and this is not me saying I would pay Collins the max, but team dynamics matter).

So adjust to market value, and Schelnk nailed it at $90m/4 this off-season.

[JayBirdHawk]

Full JC excerpt from KB21's post:

Quote

John Collins’ future

What the Hawks decide to do in the days leading up to the trade deadline, particularly with Collins, is the biggest storyline for this team. Hawks general manager Travis Schlenk is listening to offers, and The Athletic’s Shams Charania said Atlanta’s asking price so far has been a high first-round, lottery-level pick in any trade discussions.

Collins’ name being in trade talks was always going to be the next course of action after he and his representation turned down a $90 million extension offer before the season. The Hawks can’t negotiate with him until restricted free agency, where the team will have the ability to match any offer. As we’ve previously mentioned, any deal with Collins is difficult to pull off because of his small salary. That’s why he’d likely have to be packaged with a pricier veteran, like Tony Snell, to get a player or players in return who come close to similar value.

Sources close to Collins have felt since the failed contract extension talks that his days in Atlanta were numbered, as they have the sense the team won’t match any significant offer he receives in free agency. But Schlenk publicly said last week he still considers Collins to be a part of the team’s future moving forward.

“He’s made the decision this fall to go to restricted free agency, and that was his choice and obviously we respect it,” Schlenk said. “But we’re going to have the opportunity to match any offer he gets. We’ll certainly make him an offer in free agency as well, and he’ll have the ability to see if he can get an offer from another team. But at the end of the day, we view him as part of our team, and I don’t see a restricted free agency situation where we would just let him walk for nothing.”

From the Hawks’ perspective, if they believe De’Andre Hunter is the second-best player on the roster, paying Collins over $100 million might be a difficult pill to swallow for a team that is still in its infant stages of developing into a contender. What they could do, however, is match an offer sheet in free agency and decide to trade him at a later date on his new contract.

The biggest unknown in all of this is the Tony Ressler factor. How Ressler feels about the Hawks operating over the cap and encroaching on the tax while not being close to winning a championship might not be something he wants to do at this time if it doesn’t bring the team closer to a title. If that’s what Ressler thinks, then Collins likely won’t be around, and the Hawks will go into next season with Hunter, Trae Young and Clint Capela as the core of the franchise.

John Collins’ future, Cam Reddish’s progress highlight Hawks’ second-half storylines – The Athletic

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Full JC excerpt from KB21's post:

John Collins’ future, Cam Reddish’s progress highlight Hawks’ second-half storylines – The Athletic

So the Athletic thinks that the Hawks would prefer to keep Gallo and Bogdan over Collins?  I mean this is reaching a level of stupid that is inexplicable.

[Gray Mule]

Hawks made a reasonable offer.  Collins said "No."

We await season's end.  Until then, Hawks do nothing and neither does Collins.

[JayBirdHawk]

It's Bleacher Report so TIFWIW:

John Collins Trade Rumors: Timberwolves 'Dying' to Make Move for Hawks Star

The Minnesota Timberwolves are reportedly keen to acquire Atlanta Hawks big man John Collins.

On The Bill Simmons Podcast (19:30 mark), NBA writer Jackie MacMullan said the Timberwolves are "dying" to trade for the 23-year-old.

Minnesota's focus ahead of the March 25 trade deadline appears to be finding an upgrade at power forward.

Shams Charania of The Athletic and Stadium reported March 6 the T-Wolves have "shown interest" in Collins and Aaron Gordon of the Orlando Magic, but their respective teams have attached "significant asking prices" to them.

Collins may be intrigued by the possibility of playing with Minnesota's best player.

John Collins Trade Rumors: Timberwolves 'Dying' to Make Move for Hawks Star | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

[Spud2nique]

 

[JayBirdHawk]

This is the first article I've seen that has referenced what JC's ask is/was...$25 mil per/ 4yrs $100.  Hawks offered 4yrs/$90 mil an average of $22 mil per. $10 million difference on a 4 year deal???

Quote

John Collins, Atlanta Hawks

If you’re a regular reader of the NBA coverage here at The Athletic, you know this story well by now. Collins turned down an extension worth more than $90 million last offseason, making it clear along the way that he sees himself as a max-salary player heading into restricted free agency (sources say he’s pursuing an annual deal in the $25 million range).

The Hawks, sources say, have long since begun talking to teams about moving him and appear to have become more motivated recently. Per Shams, Minnesota and Boston are interested in Collins.

Considering the Hawks (19-20) struggled enough this season to inspire a coaching change and are fighting for their playoff lives, it should come as no surprise that they don’t want to spend upwards of $100 million to make Collins a long-term part of this Hawks core. Then again, they’ve won five consecutive games since the Lloyd Pierce era came to an end and find themselves in eighth place.

Considering all the pressure from owner Tony Ressler to make the playoffs, this is no small feat. It’s also the longest Hawks winning streak since a seven-win stretch that ranged from Dec. 28, 2016, to Jan. 10, 2017. But the closer we get to the deadline, the more likely it seems that Collins will be moved.

The Hawks are pushing hard for a productive young prospect to come their way in return, but Collins’ production (17.8 points, 7.6 rebounds per game) would be hard to push for the playoffs without. Still, it’s felt like that’s where this was headed ever since Hawks GM Travis Schlenk landed big man Clint Capela in February 2020 and thus chipped away at Collins’ leverage in negotiations.

 

 

[macdaddy]

I'm so tired of hearing about JC trades.   If there was any sense at all in trading before, and there really wasn't, then all of it's gone out the window with the chemistry we have now.   We finally pull the trigger on the biggest issue with the team and then we're going to flip some more levers that might undo it?   Count me out.

[bleachkit]

30 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm so tired of hearing about JC trades.   If there was any sense at all in trading before, and there really wasn't, then all of it's gone out the window with the chemistry we have now.   We finally pull the trigger on the biggest issue with the team and then we're going to flip some more levers that might undo it?   Count me out.

The only way we trade him is if we get blown away by an offer, and/or the Hawks are dead set on not paying him. With the recent winning streak, it looks less and less likely. 

[JeffS17]

10 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

The only way we trade him is if we get blown away by an offer, and/or the Hawks are dead set on not paying him. With the recent winning streak, it looks less and less likely. 

Agreed, and if you look at on/off stats, he's pretty consistently the best of the starters.  I know a lot factors into that (and I'm bad at using advanced stats finder sites), but his defense is obviously improving and his presence on offense is helping everyone.  He even has solid on/off when he's shooting poorly.  He fits our timeline as well and has chemistry with Trae.  I don't know why we would ship him but I don't feel great about it after we failed to extend. 

[warcore]

If he was really asking for 4/100... we should have just met him there. I think that's on the high end of reasonable... maybe a slight overpay but that happens all the time with teams with high aspirations.

And I don't think he should be traded, unless Jalen Brown is coming back to us. 

[Gray Mule]

Just visited Boston @ Realgm.  Their fans want Collins really, really bad if we are willing to give him to them.  They are not really gung-ho about giving up any of their "important" players for him, however.

Lots of NBA team want him, if the price is right.  Some Boston fans believe that none of the Hawk players really want to play with Trae.  They truly have a very low opinion of him.  That's one of the reasons that they believe Collins wants out and can be had cheap.

Strange what you find out that some fans of other NBA teams think.

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Just visited Boston @ Realgm.  Their fans want Collins really, really bad if we are willing to give him to them.  They are not really gung-ho about giving up any of their "important" players for him, however.

Lots of NBA team want him, if the price is right.  Some Boston fans believe that none of the Hawk players really want to play with Trae.  They truly have a very low opinion of him.  That's one of the reasons that they believe Collins wants out and can be had cheap.

Strange what you find out that some fans of other NBA teams think.

I guess that's the next anti-Trae story line.   You think Dedmon, Len and Jones wish they were still playing with Trae?     Meanwhile Kyrie and Hayward are balling out for their teams after leaving Boston.  

I hope Travis is just screwing with Boston.   That should be a non-starter to trade with them.  

[ShooterSays]

If we offered 4/90 and he wanted 4/100....I'm gonna be pi$$ed if we lose him for nothing or if he gets an offer exceeding that and we end up matching. Literally $2.5M per year...

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

If we offered 4/90 and he wanted 4/100....I'm gonna be pi$$ed if we lose him for nothing or if he gets an offer exceeding that and we end up matching. Literally $2.5M per year...

He wanted 4/120. 

[macdaddy]

6 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

He wanted 4/120. 

Pay it.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This is the first article I've seen that has referenced what JC's ask is/was...$25 mil per/ 4yrs $100.  Hawks offered 4yrs/$90 mil an average of $22 mil per. $10 million difference on a 4 year deal???

Also note that it says "more than" $90 million.  So presumably it was something above $90 but less than $100.  

I don't follow this statement:

Quote

making it clear along the way that he sees himself as a max-salary player heading into restricted free agency (sources say he’s pursuing an annual deal in the $25 million range)

An annual deal in the $25M range is $100M.  A max deal for JC is way more than $100M.

Quote

John Collins wanted a max contract extension – projected to be worth $125,903,904 if for four years – before last month’s deadline.

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-hawks-offered-john-collins-192330719.html

If the gap between the two was say $92M to $100M then that is a head scratcher for why they couldn't meet on a price.

If the Hawks were at $92M and JC was at $126M, then you can understand pretty easily why it didn't get done.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Also note that it says "more than" $90 million.  So presumably it was something above $90 but less than $100.  

I don't follow this statement:

An annual deal in the $25M range is $100M.  A max deal for JC is way more than $100M.

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-hawks-offered-john-collins-192330719.html

If the gap between the two was say $92M to $100M then that is a head scratcher for why they couldn't meet on a price.

If the Hawks were at $92M and JC was at $126M, then you can understand pretty easily why it didn't get done.

So the Hawks were squawking about and extra 2.5 mil per season?  Lord have mercy

[macdaddy]

Isn't the max from another team $107/4?   Pay it.

[ShooterSays]

13 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

He wanted 4/120. 

Yeah that would make much more sense on why they couldn't come to an agreement.