No Extension for John Collins

[Peoriabird]

10 minutes ago, hawkman said:

Trading Collins right now would grenade the season and destroy any credibility this franchise has built over the past few seasons. He's a core piece to this rebuild and has improved in every way except the counting stats that people claimed were "empty" anyway. These are just rumors but this is a bad look.

The rumor of his trade has probably already affected the Moral of the team.  I'm starting to wonder about Schlenk even more than I have in the past.  Does he really know how to get to the next level?

[Threezus]

I honestly don't understand why anyone would not want to keep Collins at this point at a 25 mil per year contract.  We all know he is a 20/10 more than capable guy with elite big man shooting %'s,  top tier rebounding ability, Above avg blocking ability, and really the only knock anyone had on him was his defense.  This year he has actually improved on that dramatically when you don't make him guard 7'1 260 pound centers all the time.  When you can leave Collins at the 4 he is a above avg defender this year and actually defending better than Siakam this year surprisingly.   He is a homegrown draft pick that most the fans like alot and him and trae are always joking around together and showing love that 1 little minor blowup during a losing streak was just that and people being frustrated which i say more is a Pierce thing than the players thing.   He is 23 and even his max contract is less per year than Pascals would be with a extra 3 years younger than him i don't see how people can't see that Collins couldn't improve to close to him on defense while still being a MUCH BETTER shooter already and shot blocker.

That and i would love someone to show me a player that we could max that would actually come play for the hawks thats as young as Collins is with more upside or hell even show me a older guy right now thats better than him the hawks actually could talk into wanting to be here. 

[hawkman]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Like whatever miniscule gain we'd get by trading him is completely dwarfed by the credibility/perception hit they'd take.

Franchises that aren't free agent destinations absolutely have to make their living off developing guys through the draft and paying the guys that pan out.  Whatever contract he ends up with will be tradeable so what's the big deal.

Exactly. I thought the days of being cheap were over. The Hawks overpaid for two free agents this summer so there's no point in being cheap with a guy they developed over the past 4 years who's been more reliable and productive than the guys they overpaid. 

[hazer]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Are these the top SGs:

James Harden, Paul George, CJ McCollum, Jrue Holiday, Bradley Beal, Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Jaylen Brown, Zach Lavine.

Yep

[Spud2nique]

29 minutes ago, hazer said:

Yep

With McCollum being better than Beal.  

[AHF]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

(I soooooooo wish certain individuals on this board... not to be named, of course, lest there be some offense taken by the protectors of all that is good, aka, the priests of Syrinx... were given a real general manager job for just a year or, for that matter, a head coach job for just a year. Not for the Hawks, of course. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, please no. Any other franchise. And if you have to ask me why that would be the case, then I don't think I can explain it to you if I tried.)

GM's have to do their due diligence, have to talk to other teams and then have to make their best calls and live with it.  Definitely easier for us armchair quarterbacks to second guess.

Also, approved:    

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Threezus said:

I honestly don't understand why anyone would not want to keep Collins at this point at a 25 mil per year contract.  We all know he is a 20/10 more than capable guy with elite big man shooting %'s,  top tier rebounding ability, Above avg blocking ability, and really the only knock anyone had on him was his defense.  This year he has actually improved on that dramatically when you don't make him guard 7'1 260 pound centers all the time.  When you can leave Collins at the 4 he is a above avg defender this year and actually defending better than Siakam this year surprisingly.   He is a homegrown draft pick that most the fans like alot and him and trae are always joking around together and showing love that 1 little minor blowup during a losing streak was just that and people being frustrated which i say more is a Pierce thing than the players thing.   He is 23 and even his max contract is less per year than Pascals would be with a extra 3 years younger than him i don't see how people can't see that Collins couldn't improve to close to him on defense while still being a MUCH BETTER shooter already and shot blocker.

That and i would love someone to show me a player that we could max that would actually come play for the hawks thats as young as Collins is with more upside or hell even show me a older guy right now thats better than him the hawks actually could talk into wanting to be here. 

I think TS would sign him today for 4 years and $100M.  I suspect the issue over the summer was JC wanting ~$124M rather than $100M.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

4 years and $100M. 

That’s fair for both sides imo.

[hazer]

25 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think TS would sign him today for 4 years and $100M.  I suspect the issue over the summer was JC wanting ~$124M rather than $100M.

Isn’t the most another team can offer JC somewhere just shy of 4/$110mil? I’ll say it again: you keep him and match that every damn day and twice on Sunday  

[mrhonline]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

There is no actual cost to window shopping, just as there is no actual cost to putting displays in your windows.

You chose the analogy, so I'll poke it:

If you put a "sous chef wanted" sign out front of the restaurant, how do you think the current sous chef would react?

In the NBA, there's most definitely a cost to putting displays in your windows.

[hazer]

38 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

With McCollum being better than Beal.  

McCollum’s defensive elevator is going up, Beal’s has been going down, Hawks need that defense with 6’1 Très in the backcourt. Both are 6’3. Then again, Z-La-V’s D has been in the upswing and is 6’6.

[sturt]

10 minutes ago, mrhonline said:

You chose the analogy, so I'll poke it:

If you put a "sous chef wanted" sign out front of the restaurant, how do you think the current sous chef would react?

In the NBA, there's most definitely a cost to putting displays in your windows.

Please see PM.

[JayBirdHawk]

57 minutes ago, hazer said:

Isn’t the most another team can offer JC somewhere just shy of 4/$110mil? I’ll say it again: you keep him and match that every damn day and twice on Sunday  

If salary cap remains the same at $109 million, the 4 year max from another teams is $117 million.  If the cap goes up this goes up, I've seen a $112 million dollar cap so his 4yr max would be $120.68.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, hazer said:

Isn’t the most another team can offer JC somewhere just shy of 4/$110mil? I’ll say it again: you keep him and match that every damn day and twice on Sunday  

It is ~$124M.  I showed the math on it somewhere.  It is 25% of the cap in year 1 with 5% raises.  

Key is the size of the cap.  If the number is below $115M then the max comes down as well as Jay notes above.

[thecampster]

3 hours ago, Threezus said:

I honestly don't understand why anyone would not want to keep Collins at this point at a 25 mil per year contract.  We all know he is a 20/10 more than capable guy with elite big man shooting %'s,  top tier rebounding ability, Above avg blocking ability, and really the only knock anyone had on him was his defense.  This year he has actually improved on that dramatically when you don't make him guard 7'1 260 pound centers all the time.  When you can leave Collins at the 4 he is a above avg defender this year and actually defending better than Siakam this year surprisingly.   He is a homegrown draft pick that most the fans like alot and him and trae are always joking around together and showing love that 1 little minor blowup during a losing streak was just that and people being frustrated which i say more is a Pierce thing than the players thing.   He is 23 and even his max contract is less per year than Pascals would be with a extra 3 years younger than him i don't see how people can't see that Collins couldn't improve to close to him on defense while still being a MUCH BETTER shooter already and shot blocker.

That and i would love someone to show me a player that we could max that would actually come play for the hawks thats as young as Collins is with more upside or hell even show me a older guy right now thats better than him the hawks actually could talk into wanting to be here. 

The problem isn't maxing Collins. The problem is what we do the next 2 offseasons with Trae, Kevin, Dre and Cam.

[Spud2nique]

There’s a guy on realgm who is mad at us. I believe his name is Texas chick pea or something. Just keep winning Hawks! When you’re doing well, people hate it, it’s kind of sad actually but that’s the day and age we live in I guess.

[hazer]

8 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

There’s a guy on realgm who is mad at us. I believe his name is Texas chick pea or something. Just keep winning Hawks! When you’re doing well, people hate it, it’s kind of sad actually but that’s the day and age we live in I guess.

You know you’ve made it when they hatin’  

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The problem isn't maxing Collins. The problem is what we do the next 2 offseasons with Trae, Kevin, Dre and Cam.

I would like nothing more than to believe that all these guys will be so great that the Hawks have to pay them very high dollar contracts, but as of today, Trae is the only one guaranteed to get an early extension next offseason.

I think Huerter more likely than not he gets to RFA unless they are able to get a really team friendly deal next offseason as an early extension, but why not wait and keep his low caphold.

There is no guarantee that either Hunter or Reddish will be early extension signees - as of Today Hunter most likely, but he has played really well for only 18 games.

Reddish is a very WILD card, so there's no guarantee that he will be in that mix.  I really hope so.

And again by the time Hunter and Reddish's extension kick in Gallo and Capela's contracts (more than likely Cap gets extended) will have expired and Bogi will be on the last year of his player option deal, if he's still here at all.

 

[Spud2nique]

9 minutes ago, hazer said:

You know you’ve made it when they hatin’  

I would like to give brother Texas chuck a hug actually. Maybe he’s going through a lot, who knows. I gots nothing but love.

[Threezus]

24 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The problem isn't maxing Collins. The problem is what we do the next 2 offseasons with Trae, Kevin, Dre and Cam.

Trae and Dre we keep Huerter and Cam can kick rocks at this point they can be replaced easily so far and we try to draft their replacements.  Then you also have money from Gallo and Bogi coming off the books or tradeable by then as well to replace Cam and Kev as well if you don't draft someone better by then.