No Extension for John Collins

[Buzzard]

4 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I think we are good no matter what.

No details have emerged about the negotiations or the numbers/gap between the two sides. I think the Hawks want people to believe we are low-balling him and not willing to overpay. That way when he becomes a RFA next summer, teams will offer a competitive deal that we could easily match versus a serious overpay that we would hesitate on.

Im sure there is a number in their mind that they refuse to come off of before the season. And with a better idea of his impact on this roster in the playoffs, they can either stick to it or go to a higher end number that they are prepared to match.

Either way, all is not lost if he doesn't extend. There are pros for both sides in that scenario so long as the front office plays their cards right,

 

I don't think all is lost but we are putting the teams fate in another teams hands. If he gets a Hayward like offer, do the Hawks match? I think that is a real possibility.

[AHF]

12 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I think we are good no matter what.

No details have emerged about the negotiations or the numbers/gap between the two sides. I think the Hawks want people to believe we are low-balling him and not willing to overpay. That way when he becomes a RFA next summer, teams will offer a competitive deal that we could easily match versus a serious overpay that we would hesitate on.

Im sure there is a number in their mind that they refuse to come off of before the season. And with a better idea of his impact on this roster in the playoffs, they can either stick to it or go to a higher end number that they are prepared to match.

Either way, all is not lost if he doesn't extend. There are pros for both sides in that scenario so long as the front office plays their cards right,

 

It doesn't worry me either.  If we get it done then great.  If we don't, let's see what JC does this year.  If his lines look anything like his preseason lines or has an injury or has a PED issue, etc., he won't be getting a max offer from anyone and may well see his value drop.  If he blows up then we'll either resign him or match ala Brandon Ingram.  

The hardest scenario is one where he plays well but not great ala BB.  If he is a "build around him" talent, it won't be an issue.

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I don't think all is lost but we are putting the teams fate in another teams hands. If he gets a Hayward like offer, do the Hawks match? I think that is a real possibility.

I did find it ironic that Hayward fractured his hand and then just a couple days later I'm seeing a "McRib" advertisement on spotify.  @Sothron we are going to see the actual McRib before the basketball one. 

[marco102]

27 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I don't think all is lost but we are putting the teams fate in another teams hands. If he gets a Hayward like offer, do the Hawks match? I think that is a real possibility.

There can't be a Gordon Hayward situation.  The Hawks can sign Collins the max and not be in the luxury tax next season.  If he doesn't sign today, the Hawks will let the market dictate what he's worth and pay it.  Even if John has a crappy season, they'll match the market on him, which wouldn't be a max, but an overpay. 

[NBASupes]

28 minutes ago, marco102 said:

There can't be a Gordon Hayward situation.  The Hawks can sign Collins the max and not be in the luxury tax next season.  If he doesn't sign today, the Hawks will let the market dictate what he's worth and pay it.  Even if John has a crappy season, they'll match the market on him, which wouldn't be a max, but an overpay. 

That's if he's offered considering a team thinks he's an overpay. Ultimately, this will be a strong PF FA class with potentially JC, Issac, Lauri, LMA, Millsap, Markieff Morris, Harrell, and Tucker. 

I don't think we would be in a bad situation at all. I still think a potential Issac/Ross for JC/Snell in March might be the best deal for both teams. JC is a better fit for Orlando while Issac is for us even if he has to sit a year. Ross is an excellent 6th man and just gives us another quality option if not to flip in a 3 way deal. 

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That's if he's offered considering a team thinks he's an overpay. Ultimately, this will be a strong PF FA class with potentially JC, Issac, Lauri, LMA, Millsap, Markieff Morris, Harrell, and Tucker. 

I don't think we would be in a bad situation at all. I still think a potential Issac/Ross for JC/Snell in March might be the best deal for both teams. JC is a better fit for Orlando while Issac is for us even if he has to sit a year. Ross is an excellent 6th man and just gives us another quality option if not to flip in a 3 way deal. 

Why is Isaac a better fit than JC?

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That's if he's offered considering a team thinks he's an overpay. Ultimately, this will be a strong PF FA class with potentially JC, Issac, Lauri, LMA, Millsap, Markieff Morris, Harrell, and Tucker. 

I don't think we would be in a bad situation at all. I still think a potential Issac/Ross for JC/Snell in March might be the best deal for both teams. JC is a better fit for Orlando while Issac is for us even if he has to sit a year. Ross is an excellent 6th man and just gives us another quality option if not to flip in a 3 way deal. 

You mean the '20-'21 season or are you talking about being ok even if he has to sit the '21-'22 season?

I gotta be honest on him though.  For all the hype he gets as a potential DPOY, I don't see enough people acknowledging his severe issues staying healthy when assessing him.

For every Steph Curry who overcame early injury issues, there's probably about 10 guys I can't name because they never made it back from early injury issues.

[mrhonline]

The theoretical value of extending him now would be to avoid him signing a shorter deal, avoid a trade kicker, avoid a player option, etc.

I do hate the Hawks didn't try to compete more last year. It would be nice to have more data on John's value when he's not sharing time with the Damian Jones of the world.

[JayBirdHawk]

15 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That's if he's offered considering a team thinks he's an overpay. Ultimately, this will be a strong PF FA class with potentially JC, Issac, Lauri, LMA, Millsap, Markieff Morris, Harrell, and Tucker. 

I don't think we would be in a bad situation at all. I still think a potential Issac/Ross for JC/Snell in March might be the best deal for both teams. JC is a better fit for Orlando while Issac is for us even if he has to sit a year. Ross is an excellent 6th man and just gives us another quality option if not to flip in a 3 way deal. 

I don't consider it a strong PF Class, 3-35 year olds?: 

Isaac - coming off yet another injury.  He isn't a guy who has shown he can stay healthy even before his latest. 

Lauri - he is in an even worse position than JC, he was horrible this past season and with injuries. He has to have a bounce back season.

 

These players will be looking to sign with contending teams and not teams with capspace:

LMA - he is more center than PF at his stage and he will be 35, you also just clowned him for Wood having a good game against him

Millsap - he will be 35 and resigned for $10 million

Markieff Morris - he just signed a vet min with LAL

Harrell - same as I've always said

Tucker - he will be 35

[Buzzard]

32 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't consider it a strong PF Class, 3-35 year olds?: 

Isaac - coming off yet another injury.  He isn't a guy who has shown he can stay healthy even before his latest. 

Lauri - he is in an even worse position than JC, he was horrible this past season and with injuries. He has to have a bounce back season.

 

These players will be looking to sign with contending teams and not teams with capspace:

LMA - he is more center than PF at his stage and he will be 35, you also just clowned him for Wood having a good game against him

Millsap - he will be 35 and resigned for $10 million

Markieff Morris - he just signed a vet min with LAL

Harrell - same as I've always said

Tucker - he will be 35

I stand by what I said. Collins will be the cream of the power forward crop. At just 24 years young next season, its not even close. I think the sleeper to get a decent payday is Marrkanen should he put up decent numbers this season.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Buzzard

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't consider it a strong PF Class, 3-35 year olds?: 

Isaac - coming off yet another injury.  He isn't a guy who has shown he can stay healthy even before his latest. 

Lauri - he is in an even worse position than JC, he was horrible this past season and with injuries. He has to have a bounce back season.

 

These players will be looking to sign with contending teams and not teams with capspace:

LMA - he is more center than PF at his stage and he will be 35, you also just clowned him for Wood having a good game against him

Millsap - he will be 35 and resigned for $10 million

Markieff Morris - he just signed a vet min with LAL

Harrell - same as I've always said

Tucker - he will be 35

I do. If you look at most FAs by position. You rarely have one young guy and its filled with backups. This year, you got some starters, solid vets, and three valuable young kids

When Issac is healthy, he has had a lot of success and impact on winning. 

It's a good class if you compare it to most FA classes for PFs.

Edited December 21, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Why is Isaac a better fit than JC?

Defense. He's the best defensive 4 in the NBA outside of Davis to me and you can argue his defensive value is elite even at that level. He also has potential to be a 38% 3 point shooter on low volume. I value that if you add his elite defense. I just strongly feel we need a 3/D 4 more than a rim running PnR 4 with major defensive deficiencies. I am not saying any of the three are without flaws. The prototype we need to win a title looks more like Issac and less like JC.

[kg01]

Isaac games played last 3 years: 27, 75, 34

If I'm ORL, I bet on him making it back because he's my guy and I drafted him.  If I'm other teams, I wanna see which of those years is the anomaly.

I have no idea why this doesn't matter to some.  It should be either the first or second bullet point when analyzing what he is as a player.

How can one say, "Oh he's great when he's healthy" but he's never healthy?

That's like saying, "Other than the fact that I'm 5'4 and 300 lbs, I'm great at basketball."  Well, being 5'4" and 300 lbs matters more than any of that other sh*t.

(Disclaimer: I'm neither 5'4" nor 300lbs, I just said that for effect.  Not that there's anything wrong with being 5'4" or 300lbs but, for the sake of your health, you probably wanna not be both of those things.)

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

That's like saying, "Other than the fact that I'm 5'4 and 300 lbs, I'm great at basketball."  Well, being 5'4" and 300 lbs matters more than any of that other sh*t.

So that's what happened to Spud2.  He stole KGs identity.   

(just dusting off an old classic)

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Isaac games played last 3 years: 27, 75, 34

If I'm ORL, I bet on him making it back because he's my guy and I drafted him.  If I'm other teams, I wanna see which of those years is the anomaly.

I have no idea why this doesn't matter to some.  It should be either the first or second bullet point when analyzing what he is as a player.

How can one say, "Oh he's great when he's healthy" but he's never healthy?

That's like saying, "Other than the fact that I'm 5'4 and 300 lbs, I'm great at basketball."  Well, being 5'4" and 300 lbs matters more than any of that other sh*t.

(Disclaimer: I'm neither 5'4" nor 300lbs, I just said that for effect.  Not that there's anything wrong with being 5'4" or 300lbs but, for the sake of your health, you probably wanna not be both of those things.)

I don't see anyone making a crazy offer on Isaac. Your take about Orlando sounds spot on. If I where then, I would sign him short term and give him a chance to play into a better contract. They may get greedy though and try to lock him up cheap and long term though.

[gurpilo]

I have the feeling Collins is not signing the extension today and I am going to be disappointed because I think we may lose him and that is bad for the Hawks

[Guest]

Clippers just signed Luke Kennard to 4 yr/$64 mil contract.

 

[mrhonline]