Official Game Thread: Knicks at Hawks

[terrell]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

Trae is a great player with growing to do.  He is still a huge positive, substantive impact for us even when he is struggling.  His scoring efficiency has been amazing.  .595% TS% last year and .612% TS% this year.  He is the engine for this team for a good reason.

Dunn and Rondo were critical signings due to the severe dropoff we have going from Trae to Goodwin.  We badly need Dunn to get healthy and need every game we can get from Rondo.

The vet impact of Bogi has been disappointing so far but I wouldn't rule out him getting on a better run.  Right now he is putting up his worst ever FG% by a significant margin which seems a product of small sample size.  I expect he will bring that number up over time.

We badly need Gallo back.  He adds another dimension to our rotation and a very steady hand on the wheel for our offense and team as a whole.  We've missed him these last two games and I suspect if he is healthy they are both wins.

In short, I see us having the solutions to what ailed us the past two games already on the roster.  Just need to get them playing to their potential and that starts with having them simply "playing" period.  If we are basically last year's roster due to injuries, we are not going to get the results all of us want to see.

Still wondering why Schlenk signed an injured pg and another 34 yr old one who only plays every now and then to back up Trae...I thought he learned his lesson last year? Gallo is great, but he's also known to get nicked up a lot..Why not go after Wood whos younger and healthier? Now Im questioning Travis..Im done for the day..lol

Edited January 5, 2021 by terrell

[terrell]

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Not everyone works out, that just how it goes. But he is good on defense and that will keep him in the league. If he can improve his shooting, he can always be a three-and-D. But his wild out of control drives with the ball don't look correctable to me. It reminds how Marvin looked with the ball. 

WE need CAM to work out....

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Still wondering why Schlenk signed an injured pg and another who only plays every now and then to back up Trae...I thought he learned his lesson last year? Gallo is great, but he's also known to get nicked up a lot..Why not go after Wood whos younger and healthier? Now Im questioning Travis..Im done for the day..lol

We missed on Wood for sure. 3 yrs, 40 mil. Absolute bargain. I'm sure we aren't the only team that feels that way.

1 minute ago, terrell said:

WE need CAM to work out....

Hunter has taken that next step, maybe Cam isnt far behind.

[terrell]

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

We missed on Wood for sure. 3 yrs, 40 mil. Absolute bargain. I'm sure we aren't the only team that feels that way.

Good thing he only guaranteed Gallo for 2 years..He'll  probably be on the injury report even more next season.

Edited January 5, 2021 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

A little success makes us forget how new this team is.  We don't have any of the new players out there... no Bogi, No Gallo, No Dunn, No Rondo.   We fielded last year's team minus Vince Carter.  Still, we should be better than this.  However, it's going to take some time. 

This^.

What you need to see from last year's team is growth from the Core 5.

Trae - sometimes he can be brilliant, other times he's trying to be more 'flash than substance'.  Live ball TOs are killer. Sometimes the simple pass/play is better. He has the most on his shoulders, balancing his affinity to score while effectively rumning the team and incorporating the new players. His timing with Capela is still off.

Huerter - looks settled in his role off the bench 

Reddish - he needs to keep his defensive principles and fundamentals in check, no need for the 'flash over sunstance' play. He has a long way to go offensively, he needs to slow down. 

Hunter - Not one complaint, more of this when we are struggling from 3

 

Collins - after struggling with fouls and shooting from 3 in the 1st 3 games, he has settled down. Still too many missed shots at the rim. His defense is still a work in progress.

The rest - Bruno and Goodwin:  - back to the drawing board.

 

 

 

[marco102]

36 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Numbers are all well and good but the eye test tells me that he still doesn't understand how to win games.  He displayed in the Memphis game but not down the stretch in other. Your star should be winning games not your bench players

He's a third year point guard. You never put context with anything.  Does he have plenty to work on YES!  He has to learn how to win games.  You act like he's supposed to be 10 year Lebron with his ability to close out games.   What realistic expectations do you set for players and the team?  Look for what you are complaining about. In most cases you will see the team is rebounding way better than last year (it was your biggest complaint), they are shooting the three ball as a percentage much better (but you've moved that to complaining about who shoots threes), and improved defense (They are 17th in defensive ranking through 7 games) . 

Are you willing to create a thread that says here's what I want to see this year, not relating to rotations because every fanbase complains about that and then we can all have a fair discussion based on your expectations today.  

You can't just say Trae doesn't know how to win games without contextualizing it.  Why doesn't he know how to win games? What would you like see him improve upon to win games?   Has he made any meaningful improvements this season that eventually will cause the Hawks to win games later in the season or will he forever not know how to win games? 

Edit:  They are also 17th in turnovers a game. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

My concerns about Trae have been well documented...I'll advised shots and senseless live ball turnover will get you beat most of time in the NBA. Especially if you wait until the 4th quarter of tight games to make these errors!

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

My concerns about Trae have been well documented...I'll advised shots and senseless live ball turnover will get you beat most of time in the NBA. Especially if you wait until the 4th quarter of tight games to make these errors!

Do you see any improvements in those areas from last year? 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, marco102 said:

Do you see any improvements in those areas from last year? 

Not enough

[macdaddy]

33 minutes ago, terrell said:

Still wondering why Schlenk signed an injured pg and another 34 yr old one who only plays every now and then to back up Trae

Rondo is here for the playoffs.   

[marco102]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Not enough

So you've seen some improvement.

Okay, put some numbers to what you would like to see and expect.  That way we have a way to determine your realistic expectations. 

[terrell]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

Rondo is here for the playoffs.   

So who did he plan on backing up Trae in the regular season? Goodwin? lol

Edited January 5, 2021 by terrell

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

So you've seen some improvement.

Okay, put some numbers to what you would like to see and expect.  That way we have a way to determine your realistic expectations. 

Isn't he still averaging over 4 turnovers per game?  That's not much of an improvement

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

So who did he plan on backing up Trae in the regular season? Goodwin? lol

I'm guessing they didn't think Dunn would need surgery.  And seriously the guy has been off with this injury for a year.  They should have figured out something months ago.  

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Isn't he still averaging over 4 turnovers per game?  That's not much of an improvement

Yup 4.4,  after an 8 turnover game yesterday.  Curry's averaging 3.6 turnovers a game.  So a third year guard with much more usage is averaging 1 more turnover a game than Curry.  I can also list the other great players who are around 4 turnovers a game.   

Btw, he def does need to improve on the late game turnovers.  I want a complete list of things you are expecting? For example, his defense has been better, his shot is off and his threes a game are way down.  He's trying to drive to the rim more to get better shots.  He's at 9.1 assists per game at 4.4 turnovers.  2 to 1 which is better than last year's rate.   He's drawing more fouls and his true shooting percentage is up.

It's not that he doesn't have things to work on.  I just want you to understand he's improving on the things you are complaining about, but don't seem to acknowledge.  Improvement is not linear or exponential.  I expect he'll be better by the end of the season in most areas you are upset about. 

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

Yup 4.4,  after an 8 turnover game yesterday.  Curry's averaging 3.6 turnovers a game.  So a third year guard with much more usage is averaging 1 more turnover a game than Curry.  I can also list the other great players who are around 4 turnovers a game.   

 

This is going nowhere! So nice chatting with you.

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

This is going nowhere! So nice chatting with you.

See my edited response above. I added more context.  He's down from 4.8 to 4.4 through 7 games.  So do you think he's going to improve or get worst? 

Edited January 5, 2021 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

See my edited response above. I added more context.  He's down from 4.8 to 4.4 through 7 games.  So do you think he's going to improve or get worst? 

He is playing fewer minutes!

So the rate is essentially the same

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

He is playing fewer minutes!

So the rate is essentially the same

You are correct. His turnovers per 40 minutes from last year was 12.3% this year it's 12.0%, but it's improved and before last night's game it was MUCH improved over last year.   So what are your expectations for his turnover percentage for the season? 

To give you a reference point, for a very good to excellent point guard as far as turnovers, Chris Paul's turnover percentage is currently at 8.7% per 40.

Edited January 5, 2021 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

On 1/5/2021 at 12:16 PM, marco102 said:

You are correct. His turnovers per 40 minutes from last year was 12.3% this year it's 12.0%, but it's improved and before last night's game it was MUCH improved over last year.   So what are your expectations for his turnover percentage for the season? 

It should be mid 3's but they all should not come in the 4th like now. His 3 point shooting is plummeting also because of his poor shot selection. He is basically the same as last year in both categories even after an amazing game 1