Uh oh...Ice vs The Baptist

[HawkItus]

https://theathletic.com/2307304/2021/01/08/atlanta-hawks-john-collins-trae-young/

 

 

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John Collins, the fourth-year big man who just weeks before bet on himself in a big way during his failed extension talks with the Hawks, shared his unfiltered and unhappy views about the way franchise centerpiece Trae Young was running the offense. According to three sources who were either in the session or had knowledge of what was said, Collins raised several issues about the way these Hawks were functioning with Young at the helm.

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There was a moment during a timeout in the third quarter when, perhaps sensing Young was not happy, Collins put his arm around Young’s shoulders and patted him on the back to encourage him. Young did not say anything nor reciprocate Collins’ friendly gesture and instead walked away.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Oh boy, and here we go!

[JayBirdHawk]

Here's what Collins pointed out:

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Collins talked about the need to get into offensive sets more quickly and to limit all those early shot-clock attempts that leave his teammates on the outside looking in. He shared his desire to be more involved and expressed a desire for more ball involvement and flow on offense.

There was no back-and-forth between the two, but the pointed criticism caught the attention of the room. And Young, sources say, made it clear to others later that he strongly disagreed with Collins’ assessment.

“Trae is my brother regardless,” Collins, who chose not to elaborate further, told The Athletic via text message when he was asked about the situation.

I don't think any Squawker can disagree with the bolded.

[Jody23]

I read that article and Chris Kirschner is really good at his job.  I'll say this...the Hawks started out 4-1 and you could argue they should have been 5-0 and the offense was hummin'.  That happened with Trae Young being the best player on this team and giving up the ball more than I've seen him do it since he's been here.  

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, Jody23 said:

I read that article and Chris Kirschner is really good at his job.  I'll say this...the Hawks started out 4-1 and you could argue they should have been 5-0 and the offense was hummin'.  That happened with Trae Young being the best player on this team and giving up the ball more than I've seen him do it since he's been here.  

Things have been going downhill since the 2nd half collapse against the Cavaliers - an entire team effort.

[Jody23]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Things have been going downhill since the 2nd half collapse against the Cavaliers - an entire team effort.

Oh no doubt.  And there are several reasons for it.

[macdaddy]

I mean Trae's play in the last game can't really be defended.   Looked like he was trying to prove some kind of misguided point.   But this aint' good.   Without Trae we're not going to be much of a team. 

[JayBirdHawk]

More: Clint weighs in.

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Even after the film session came to an end, the dialogue about how these Hawks should operate continued. Only this time, it was Hawks big man Clint Capela who decided to weigh in during a private discussion with Young.

Capela, the 26-year-old who was acquired from Houston at last season’s trade deadline, had seen a similar act unfold before during the Dwight Howard-James Harden era with the Houston Rockets. Sources say Capela’s message focused on that cautionary tale, how Howard’s demands for the ball along with Harden’s reluctance to give it up more freely widened the divide between them and led to collective failure.

This kind of push-and-pull between talented wing players and big men is as old as the league itself, but Capela clearly saw no reason to let history repeat itself. But one night later, when the Hawks fell 102-94 to Charlotte in Atlanta, it was clear there had been a ripple effect from the day before. And not for the better.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

I mean Trae's play in the last game can't really be defended.   Looked like he was trying to prove some kind of misguided point.   But this aint' good.   Without Trae we're not going to be much of a team. 

I asked in the game thread why Trae was just passing the ball and standing at the top of the key in the 1st half, not moving...now we know why.

@TheNorthCydeRises called it.

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He spent most of his time off the ball, not moving... 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

A promising offseason seems to be going up in flames 8 games in....

[macdaddy]

I defended LP all summer but if all it takes is 2.5 bad games for this whole thing to fall apart then he's screwed up.   He's got a lot of work to do if he's going to keep his job past January (I know Travis will never turn on him that quickly)

[JayBirdHawk]

On Pierce:

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But Young is not the only Hawks player who has been frustrated with Pierce at times, as multiple players have questioned his in-game decisions at various times since he was hired in 2018. In the loss to Cleveland on Saturday, the second unit blew an 11-point lead as the starters sat for seven minutes. Pierce was asked why he left the bench players in for so long and said he actually brought in the starters earlier than what he normally would in the fourth quarter.

His answer speaks to another point of contention some players have with Pierce: a perceived lack of accountability in the media. On multiple occasions last season, Pierce’s penchant for saying the team had no energy and “didn’t compete” wasn’t received well by some players. The undercurrent, it seems, is a sense from some players that the coaching staff isn’t willing enough to share the responsibility on nights when they fall short.

You can't be this rigid with your rotations buddy.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

On Pierce:

 

Yep.   The Knicks game was on Pierce for sure.   

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I asked in the game thread why Trae was just passing the ball and standing at the top of the key in the 1st half, not moving...now we know why.

@TheNorthCydeRises called it.

 

If Trae is off the ball, he has to move. Seems like he's pouting. I think Trae's attitude is basically, "Im giving you 30 and 10, what are you complaining about?" 

[bleachkit]

If we had a healthy Rondo and a healthy Gallo, we probably win half of these losses. With Rondo and Gallo, our bench is nearly as good as our starters.

[HawkItus]

I think Trae was proving a point and I agree w/ him.  Besides Bogey and Gallo, these cats need him to score effectively.  JC is another KAT.  Great stats, but he doesn't effect winning.

[JayBirdHawk]

The biggest question I have is who 'Spilled the Beans'

[mrhonline]

And now we see the problem of not extending Collins. Trae is an immature and mercurial guy who isn't a leader, but Collins can't create a shot. They really need each other.

[bleachkit]

9 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

I think Trae was proving a point and I agree w/ him.  Besides Bogey and Gallo, these cats need him to score effectively.  JC is another KAT.  Great stats, but he doesn't effect winning.

You prove your point by having your all time worst game? No, you prove youre a spoiled brat by doing that. Yes, if Trae plays like absolute shit, that decreases our chances of winning. Stunning insight there, Trae. Great players respond to challenges by rising above them and showing their greatness, not pouting.

[aali34]

6 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

I think Trae was proving a point and I agree w/ him.  Besides Bogey and Gallo, these cats need him to score effectively.  JC is another KAT.  Great stats, but he doesn't effect winning.

I think that if Trae becomes more of a cog in the offense while still getting his, the ceiling of this team is raised significantly. Outside of LBJ led teams, there have been no teams in the last decade that won a championship without thier most important player having an impact off the ball. The Spurs, Raptors, and Golden State all had systems based on offensive flow while also relying on thier stars.

Look at what Kawhi said about the Clippers after last season. They lacked BBIQ. They needed a floor general to run the offense. 

Trae is integral to this team's success. But his playstyle can determine whether he ends up like Harden or Curry.