Uh oh...Ice vs The Baptist

[macdaddy]

I was so pissed at Trae but what he seemed to be trying to 'prove' at least subconsciously was that he makes all these guys better almost every friggin night.   Most of them aren't capable of doing much without him.   The flip side is the whole offense is built around him so that would make sense.   But the shooting in the last game from Cam, Hunter, Bogi was an embarrassment.   

[HawkItus]

It's hilarious how local and national media saw an MVP type play from Trae, Cam cools off and injuries happen and now our fans and a PF feeling himself think Trae is a team cancer.  This is why Atlanta can't have nice things.

[bleachkit]

7 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

His floater has failed because instead of shooting it, he's thrusting his ass into the defender to try to draw fails.  The foul baiting is hurting his overall game because he's forcing himself into situations where he's considering 4 things and has 1 second to decide: go to the rim and layup, floater, find an open man, or bait a foul.

It's too much.  He will get foul calls regardless because he's our star player and he demands guys play him close because he's very quick and a good shooter, so he needs to stop trying to bait fouls and actually score -- he has a good floater when the paint is occupied and he's good at beating guys to the rim when its not.  I really think the egregious foul baiting is hurting other aspects of his game.

When the whistles dry up, the foul baiting becomes a problem because it hurts your natural flow. Use it sometimes when you have an undisciplined defender, but generally just play your natural game.

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

I was so pissed at Trae but what he seemed to be trying to 'prove' at least subconsciously was that he makes all these guys better almost every friggin night.   Most of them aren't capable of doing much without him.   The flip side is the whole offense is built around him so that would make sense.   But the shooting in the last game from Cam, Hunter, Bogi was an embarrassment.   

He didn't prove anything.  He proved that our bench unit got us back into the game because he was playing so poorly.  Of course the guys need the point guard to play well for the offense to churn.  No team is going to have good results if the PG just passes it around the key and stands behind the 3P line the entire possession.  This was a bush league outing by Trae and I wish we had a strong coach to correct this type of behavior -- it's my biggest fear with any superstar these days -- that they turn into a complete diva and drag the team down

[terrell]

18 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

To be fair Harden baits a lot too and Trae is a better passer.   But i get your point.

He's also a very careless passer...So erratic..

[NBASupes]

Sorry but Trae can't be our best player and we win games. It's not possible. In the preseason, Trae stunk, Cam had a 16 PIE, Hunter had a 12 PIE and we were 2-2 with a chance to win 3 of the 4. Trae had a 6 PIE and it didn't even kill us like that. 

The two way wings are far more important. JC consistency is more important. Trae ultimately has an tremendous impact on us being a great offense but he hurts us just as bad on defense and ultimately, the best Trae is really the best 2-5 players we got. 

Trae is not Kyrie, Stephon, or IT but he's not Steph, Nash, or Stockton either. 

He's his own player but I don't know if he's a winning player. He's an important player but is he a winning player or is he a player who wants to win in his own way like Harden. 

 

Trae is looking more and more like baby James Harden and I don't think you can win a title with Harden, much less baby Harden? I don't know. 

Maybe we need to try to land Giannis but he's not gonna be available. 

 

Cam bad play is hurting us more than Trae's bad play. Cam is more important than Trae. He just ain't good right now and it's hurting us. Hunter play is the biggest reason why we are still 4-4. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by NBASupes

[bleachkit]

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I was so pissed at Trae but what he seemed to be trying to 'prove' at least subconsciously was that he makes all these guys better almost every friggin night.   Most of them aren't capable of doing much without him.   The flip side is the whole offense is built around him so that would make sense.   But the shooting in the last game from Cam, Hunter, Bogi was an embarrassment.   

Hunter had 17, 6 and 5 on 6/15. He didnt have that bad of a game.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Been saying this for 2 years!! But great posters like @AHF just kept cheering them on touting Trae's efficiently etc.  Now I think people are finally seeing what I've been talking about for years and its about time!

I think you are suffering from memory loss.  Do you recall the team we had that KB wanted to continue with? Here they are with their ages, contract status and 2017-18 salaries.

24 YO Dennis Schroeder ($15.5M)

25 YO Tim Hardaway Jr UFA (signed for $16.5M)

28 YO Kent Bazemore Contract ($16.9M)

31 YO Paul Millsap UFA (signed for $31.3M)

32 YO Dwight Howard Under Contract ($23.5M)

Salary Cap:  $99M - Starters $103.7M

 

That was a garbage overpriced roster at the end of the 2016-17 season.  Lucky to make the playoffs that last year and capped out for the future.

 

Yes, I said they needed to rebuild.  That is obvious.

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Hunter had 17, 6 and 5 on 6/15. He didnt have that bad of a game.

He missed 6 threes.  He cam and bogi were 1-18 from 3.   And more than miss they comically bricked about half of them.  

You're right he didn't have 'that bad' of game but that's not really good enough at this point.   That's the problem, we still have a lot of young guys who don't have good games consistently.   

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think you are suffering from memory loss.  Do you recall the team we had that KB wanted to continue with? Here they are with their ages, contract status and 2017-18 salaries.

24 YO Dennis Schröder ($15.5M)

25 YO Tim Hardaway Jr UFA (signed for $16.5M)

28 YO Kent Bazemore Contract ($16.9M)

31 YO Paul Millsap UFA (signed for $31.3M)

32 YO Dwight Howard Under Contract ($23.5M)

Salary Cap:  $99M - Starters $103.7M

 

That was a garbage overpriced roster at the end of the 2016-17 season.  Lucky to make the playoffs that last year and capped out for the future.

 

Yes, I said they needed to rebuild.  That is obvious.

I am and was team rebuild. That said, I understood the risks of rebuilding and this is what it is. You get players like Trae Young who were so exciting in year 1 but when you (defense) take away things they love like the PnR, they build bad habits and it's hard to watch as a fan. Last year, Trae's play was not fun to watch. This year, it's only gotten worse since the refs shallowed the whistle. Trae is starting to become hard on the eyes. I don't want to blame the coach for it because coaches aren't stepping inbounds for passes, getting 8 seconds calls late into the 4th QT and making stupid passes time and time again. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

He missed 6 threes.  He cam and bogi were 1-18 from 3.   And more than miss they comically bricked about half of them.  

You're right he didn't have 'that bad' of game but that's not really good enough at this point.   That's the problem, we still have a lot of young guys who don't have good games consistently.   

Hunter's been good for every game but two of them. The last one and his last preseason game. 

Cam after an excellent preseason has had 5 bad games out of 8. 

Bogi only had two good games but he's been hurt. 

Trae been hit or miss too. 

[NBASupes]

Melo Ball is flawed as hell and I honestly think him and Trae will be on the same level when it's all said and done and that's not great if our goal is to win a title. 

[macdaddy]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Melo Ball is flawed as hell and I honestly think him and Trae will be on the same level when it's all said and done and that's not great if our goal is to win a title. 

I think we maybe forgetting how consistently good Trae was last year.    I'm equally pissed with his last two games but the guy is pretty amazing.   Melo has a long ways to catch up. 

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

He missed 6 threes.  He cam and bogi were 1-18 from 3.   And more than miss they comically bricked about half of them.  

You're right he didn't have 'that bad' of game but that's not really good enough at this point.   That's the problem, we still have a lot of young guys who don't have good games consistently.   

Hunter might be our most consistent player. Lumping him in with Bogi and Cam is unfair.

[Wretch]

I knew something was off with his passing this year.  He seemed to be forcing things and his passing looked uncharacteristically sloppy.  I think it's counterproductive to try and change his style and force him away from this strength.  Not the circus shots or the "bait" flops.  Ya'll can argue about that all day.  We all of a sudden don't like dribble penetration/drive and kick?  JC getting fed off of the pick and roll (and looking like a world beater in the process...)  Guys getting open looks left and right?

Huh?

Trae is a natural facilitator, he draws attention, he gets people involved, and he gets the ball to them.  The problem isn't Trae.  The problem is that he doesn't have a dominant compliment that can reliably deliver.  I cannot believe how much hate Trae is getting in here.  I don't agree with any of these takes.  Not a single one of these negative takes.

Man, I can't wait to necro this thread LOL.

 

[HawkItus]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Melo Ball is flawed as hell and I honestly think him and Trae will be on the same level when it's all said and done and that's not great if our goal is to win a title. 

1 star post

[terrell]

54 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So can I give my take on this without being crucified? This entire situation is on Pierce. He let this type of play go on for 2 years and now he wants to coach it out of Trae? John is absolutely right for pointing out the flaws in this Trae centric offensive approach. Right now Trae is not good enough for this to work consistently.  Give John the Da-n ball!

Trae has been playing the same way since AAU..He cant help it..lol

Edited January 8, 2021 by terrell

[aali34]

23 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Trae is not Curry at all. Curry is a master off the ball. Trae is a small Harden. Trae needs the ball, Trae does not play off the ball. Does not try to play off the ball. He's a Harden/Iverson type that needs the ball. 

Ben Simmons needs the ball, otherwise he's borderline useless on offense. If you can shoot well, you can play offball. Variety is what makes team's hard to guard. It's why walls are formed around Giannis when he plays in the post season and why players that can also shoot well in the midrange outplay those who don't when the pace slows down. 

Harden is better at iso than Trae. He has size and strength that Trae never will, and yet his playstyle hasn't found him Championship success and the closest was when he was playing with CP3 who ran that offense. Giannis requested a floor general in Holiday in order to move further in the playoffs.  Being a one man show doesn't work unless you're Lebron. You have to play off of your teamates.

One of Kawhi's best attributes as a Superstar is his willingness to be a cog in the machine when on the court. Watch him when was with the Spurs or Raptors. He moves; he doesn't pull a Westbrook or Harden and stand around and wait for the ball to get back to him. I don't want Trae spotting up or manuevering around screens off the ball every possesion. He doesn't need to be a Curry Clone.

If he wants to be the best player he can be, he needs elements of Curry, Harden, and Nash. In a best case scenario he's a guy that can put players in positions to score, drop 40, slice through pnr, or disrupt defenses with screen setting and movement. There's noone who can do that in the NBA outside Curry and Trae is a better passer than he is.  

 

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I knew something was off with his passing this year.  He seemed to be forcing things and his passing looked uncharacteristically sloppy.  I think it's counterproductive to try and change his style and force him away from this strength.  Not the circus shots or the "bait" flops.  Ya'll can argue about that all day.  We all of a sudden don't like dribble penetration/drive and kick?  JC getting fed off of the pick and roll (and looking like a world beater in the process...)  Guys getting open looks left and right?

Huh?

Trae is a natural facilitator, he draws attention, he gets people involved, and he gets the ball to them.  The problem isn't Trae.  The problem is that he doesn't have a dominant compliment that can reliably deliver.  I cannot believe how much hate Trae is getting in here.  I don't agree with any of these takes.  Not a single one of these negative takes.

Man, I can't wait to necro this thread LOL.

 

Trae's game has to evolve. Trae Iverson dribbling the ball for 20 seconds is not going to work. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

Trae's game has to evolve. Trae Iverson dribbling the ball for 20 seconds is not going to work. 

This