Was it a Waste?

[Diesel]

This offseason was praised for being one of the best if not the best in the League.

But here we are...  17 games in and the question is was it a waste?

We paid Gallo, Rondo, Bogo, and Dunn. 

All together that's 23 out of 68 games.    The new guys have played in 34% of the games we have had.   They have given some contribution... however, 

they all are just backups to the guys who are playing now.  Both in RT and in stats.   For instance.. and this is really the only question... is Bogo better than Huerter?  The numbers say... Nah.

Here's the real question.  How can you deny JC and eventually Hunter when they come up wanting Max Money when you're paying their BUs so much money. 

I know we like the depth.  I know we believe that the players will make their biggest contribution later when they are not injured.  BUT... Spending so much on BUs may be a downfall that we will have to deal with in seasons to come. 

The only new guys earning their keep are CLINT and Solo. 

 

[macdaddy]

We will continue to need real NBA players.   We're damn lucky that 'core' has been mostly available.   Rondo brings some leadership so his on court failings so far can be excused a bit.   Bogie and Gallo are going to be real important if we're taking that next step.   We won't get far with just 6 or 7 reliable players. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Chandler Parsons ($27 mil), Allen Crabbe ($17 mil) , Evan Turner($19 mil) Alex Len ($4mil) and Damian Jones  - so no, NOT a WASTE!

[Gray Mule]

Was it a waste?  Nope.  Atlanta was, as the old saw goes, between a rock and a hard place.  We don't have stars here so no star wants to come here because we have no stars because no star wants to come here.

Ever watch a dog chase his tail?  

Some injuries we knew about.  Kris Dunn had a bad knee.  Hawks found that his ankle problem was the probable cause (We didn't know this) and that's been fixed and we await his healing.

Some became Hawks because we out bid the competition and, surprise, some came here because they wanted to.  We seem to certainly have our share of injuries with all our new players.

[Dnice]

In a collective sense, I don't think so.

[JayBirdHawk]

If we had bargain bin shopped, there would have been a collective uproar.  It's unfortunate they have been injured.

[bleachkit]

Early returns haven't been great, but investing in quality free agents was the right call. 

[REHawksFan]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

This offseason was praised for being one of the best if not the best in the League.

But here we are...  17 games in and the question is was it a waste?

We paid Gallo, Rondo, Bogo, and Dunn. 

All together that's 23 out of 68 games.    The new guys have played in 34% of the games we have had.   They have given some contribution... however, 

they all are just backups to the guys who are playing now.  Both in RT and in stats.   For instance.. and this is really the only question... is Bogo better than Huerter?  The numbers say... Nah.

Here's the real question.  How can you deny JC and eventually Hunter when they come up wanting Max Money when you're paying their BUs so much money. 

I know we like the depth.  I know we believe that the players will make their biggest contribution later when they are not injured.  BUT... Spending so much on BUs may be a downfall that we will have to deal with in seasons to come. 

The only new guys earning their keep are CLINT and Solo. 

 

1. No. It was most definitely NOT a waste of FA money. We've already seen the impact Gallo has on the whole offense when he's out there healthy. Unless he ends up not playing the majority of the entire contract, he's an asset. Don't care how much he makes as a BU. He adds value to this Hawks team.
2. Same can be said for Bogie, but maybe to a lesser extent. I'm withholding judgment on him until he plays more than 9 games. Regardless, it's been 17 games when most of the new additions have multiple YEARS on their contracts. Not sure how any determination can be made one way or another this early.
3. As for your "real" question (which by the way is the primary reason I responded):  The early returns on the season have proven to me that JC is not a max player. On a playoff team with a 2-deep full of actual NBA players, he's a nice supporting piece but certainly not a guy you Max out.  He's not a 20/10 guy on a team full of NBA players. On a bad team chalk full of summer league players? Sure. But on a REAL NBA team? He's the 4th guy, maybe 3rd guy. And that's fine. He has value. I don't want him to walk and I don't want to lose him for nothing, but his value is not at a Max level. @NBASupes is 100% right about that.  Doesn't mean the Hawks won't match a Max offer just to keep him, btw. They could and I think that would be overpaying, but sometimes you do what you gotta do if you don't have any better options.  I just think his value is in support of the actual Max players (in my opinion, that is clearly Trae and possibly Hunter down the road but it's WAY too early for that discussion right now).  Clint Capela really altered the role for John to the point where I don't think he has the capacity to put up gaudy numbers anymore. His game (on the Hawks anyway) is now on the perimeter and at the rim really only when Capela is out. That's my take on JC.  

[terrell]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

This offseason was praised for being one of the best if not the best in the League.

But here we are...  17 games in and the question is was it a waste?

We paid Gallo, Rondo, Bogo, and Dunn. 

All together that's 23 out of 68 games.    The new guys have played in 34% of the games we have had.   They have given some contribution... however, 

they all are just backups to the guys who are playing now.  Both in RT and in stats.   For instance.. and this is really the only question... is Bogo better than Huerter?  The numbers say... Nah.

Here's the real question.  How can you deny JC and eventually Hunter when they come up wanting Max Money when you're paying their BUs so much money. 

I know we like the depth.  I know we believe that the players will make their biggest contribution later when they are not injured.  BUT... Spending so much on BUs may be a downfall that we will have to deal with in seasons to come. 

The only new guys earning their keep are CLINT and Solo. 

 

Easily tradeable contracts if need be..Rondo,Gallo,Dunn only 2 yr deals..

[Peoriabird]

Bogie screwed up our future salary structure so yes to him.  He isn't good enough to lose players like Huerter or Collins.

[RedDawg#8]

The contracts are decent value for the players we brought in, and there are no real FA's available next offseason that would realistically sign here or be worth the contracts they demand. That being said, if the option was to NOT spend the money on these guys and just roll out the roster we would have otherwise had, then I say no it is not a waste.

The guys we brought in may not have had a huge impact through 17 games of this season, but their day will come eventually as we have them under contract for multiple years. At some point they will contribute on the court. And if we want to move on from them we still can easily do that too.

I'm as impatient about these injuries as the next guy, but I am completely at peace with the guys we brought in.

[Peoriabird]

Bogie has some type of trade kicker which makes it difficult to move on from him.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

We will continue to need real NBA players.   We're damn lucky that 'core' has been mostly available.   Rondo brings some leadership so his on court failings so far can be excused a bit.   Bogie and Gallo are going to be real important if we're taking that next step.   We won't get far with just 6 or 7 reliable players. 

They may be.  However,  the need for Real NBA players becomes more moot when we watch the development of our drafted players. 

Instead of Gallo.. at 1/2 the price, we could have gotten Montrez or JayMicheal. 

Instead of Bogo, the UGA fan in me would have liked to see us make a lower offer to KCP.

These would not be as sexy pickups as we have made but those sexy pickups may be future headaches when we start contract negotiations with the real starters. 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If we had bargain bin shopped, there would have been a collective uproar.  It's unfortunate they have been injured.

Even if they were not injured... we paid the come to Atlanta price for these guys.   If not injured, do you think any of them are better than the guy who starts ahead of them??

[macdaddy]

10 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Instead of Gallo.. at 1/2 the price, we could have gotten Montrez or JayMicheal. 

Instead of Bogo, the UGA fan in me would have liked to see us make a lower offer to KCP.

We needed 3 point shooting though.  Still do.   That comes at a premium. 

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Even if they were not injured... we paid the come to Atlanta price for these guys.   If not injured, do you think any of them are better than the guy who starts ahead of them??

No one we got would have started ahead of who is starting now. Trez and JaMychal wouldn't start.  

And as @macdaddy pointed out, we needed 3 point shooting and ball handlers.

Bogi had just moved into the starting lineup when he got injured. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

1. No. It was most definitely NOT a waste of FA money. We've already seen the impact Gallo has on the whole offense when he's out there healthy. Unless he ends up not playing the majority of the entire contract, he's an asset. Don't care how much he makes as a BU. He adds value to this Hawks team.
2. Same can be said for Bogie, but maybe to a lesser extent. I'm withholding judgment on him until he plays more than 9 games. Regardless, it's been 17 games when most of the new additions have multiple YEARS on their contracts. Not sure how any determination can be made one way or another this early.
3. As for your "real" question (which by the way is the primary reason I responded):  The early returns on the season have proven to me that JC is not a max player. On a playoff team with a 2-deep full of actual NBA players, he's a nice supporting piece but certainly not a guy you Max out.  He's not a 20/10 guy on a team full of NBA players. On a bad team chalk full of summer league players? Sure. But on a REAL NBA team? He's the 4th guy, maybe 3rd guy. And that's fine. He has value. I don't want him to walk and I don't want to lose him for nothing, but his value is not at a Max level. @NBASupes is 100% right about that.  Doesn't mean the Hawks won't match a Max offer just to keep him, btw. They could and I think that would be overpaying, but sometimes you do what you gotta do if you don't have any better options.  I just think his value is in support of the actual Max players (in my opinion, that is clearly Trae and possibly Hunter down the road but it's WAY too early for that discussion right now).  Clint Capela really altered the role for John to the point where I don't think he has the capacity to put up gaudy numbers anymore. His game (on the Hawks anyway) is now on the perimeter and at the rim really only when Capela is out. That's my take on JC.  

Here's the thing.. I have highlighted the 2 areas I will address... First.. Appreciate your response.

 

1st point.

You should care how much the BUs make because that will drive the price for the starters up.   It's called inflation.   IF a team is willing to pay Gallo 20 Million dollars for what he brings... then it cannot offer JC 21 Million for what he brings.   You said that Gallo brings something on Offense.  He brings absolutely nothing on defense.   If I'm JC's agent, I'm rubbing my hands extra hard in expectation to the Max. 

2nd Point.

JC is not a 20/10 guy on a NBA team.  UHm...  I used to be of the same opinion as you.   In fact, I believe and still believe that JC's production is built out of Trae's house.    The problem with JC is that he doesn't create for himself.   That means that his creation is dependent on him being fed.  Honestly, the same could be said about Karl Malone and Tim Duncan (to an extent).   i.e. these players also needed to be fed.  Duncan had all the tools but you never saw Duncan bring the ball up and initiate offense.   What you saw was Duncan in his spots getting the ball and going to work.   We celebrate him because whether he was high post of low post or beyond the arc.. the ball was going in.   JC has that same problem.   His complaint has been towards Trae but really it's coaching.   The way that guys like him, Malone, and Duncan work is that the team made them a priority.   This season, so far, Clint has been more of a priority than JC offensively.   But look at JC's numbers again.... even without the touches... His FG% is up.  His TOs are down and on the defensive side of the ball... he's balling.   An opposing GM with a good PG is not going to look at JC and say... that kid is not 20/10 on a team full of NBA players.  They are going to say... do you see the way this kid slips the screen?  Do you see how he rolls on the pick and roll?   Do you see his BBIQ? 

JC's points being down is an offensive identity problem.   Mechanistically, he will get you the points if you get him the ball.   He's not in the mold of KG where he doesn't need anything.  He's in the mold of Duncan/Malone where if you plan an offense around him, he will get you points at a high efficiency. 

 

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

We needed 3 point shooting though.  Still do.   That comes at a premium. 

I talked bad about Hunter and Cam Posing.    The truth is we have 5 guys shooting over 38% from three.   Gallo is the only new guy on that list. 

 

[bleachkit]

Hopefully by March Dunn and Bogi will be back. 

[bleachkit]

Just now, Diesel said:

I talked bad about Hunter and Cam Posing.    The truth is we have 5 guys shooting over 38% from three.   Gallo is the only new guy on that list. 

 

Bogi is shooting the three at 36%, which is around his career average. He's never been a 40% guy.