Official Game Thread: Hawks at Knicks

[lethalweapon3]

“What’s that you want, Coach Thibs? ICE? ICE? ICE?”

 

It’s not just our Atlanta Hawks under a cold spell! They’ll get to understand this from a front-and-center view all this week, as it seems the entire Eastern Seaboard, from the Georgia mountains north, has been walking through a winter plunder-land.

By the time Our Fine Feathered Friends depart on Tuesday morning for Boston, after tonight’s game at Madison Square Garden against the New York Knicks (7:30 PM Eastern, Fox Sports Southeast and 92.9 FM in ATL, MSG Network) concludes, the near 40-degree temps will feel downright balmy. It’s probably the only time the Hawks will spend this week free of some combination of frigid temperatures and slippery roads and sidewalks.

Just 0.5 games behind Atlanta (11-15) in the standings, the current 11-seed Chicago Bulls, playing the Pacers in Indy tonight, are the thin layer of ice keeping the Hawks in the Play-In picture. To keep from falling through, unconventionally, the Hawks must bring some warmth to their proceedings with the Knicks (13-15, seeking 3^rd straight win) and the Celtics. But on a team that has lost six of their last seven games, with no sign of reinforcements coming in from the cold, who is providing the rays of sunshine?

“Where my coach? Where my coach?” Johnny Davis’ heart swelled with pride as he was summoned to center court to share in his star player’s glory. “Is he around?”

Allen Iverson declared his All-Star Game MVP trophy as a “tribute”, to his teammates on the Philadelphia 76ers, his family, his day-one friends. But, first and foremost, to Coach Davis. It had been up to this point a rocky, uphill climb, each of them in their fifth season together. Yet they were reaching the pinnacle of Iverson’s success as an All-NBA superstar, their team was making moves and making waves as perhaps the best in the Eastern Conference, and The Answer left no doubt as to whom he could credit, at the moment of his highest achievement, to date.

Of course, you know it didn’t quite happen that way. Not for Coach Johnny D. The former Hawks assistant went 22-60 with a rookie Iverson, Jerry Stackhouse, and flotsam on the ever-rebuilding Sixers. The bespectacled Larry Brown would reap the rewards. Davis wouldn’t get another crack at a head coaching gig for seven seasons, as an assistant taking the reins for the struggling and fired Doc Rivers down in Orlando.

Davis’ reward, for coaching another terrible team through another terrible season? A lottery win, bringing Atlanta prep sensation Dwight Howard down to the Magic Kingdom, joining Steve Francis and a suddenly spry Grant Hill. The Magic carpet ride ended for Davis when a 31-27 start led to a six-game losing streak that began right when Hill, again, got hurt. Five years later, Howard would lead Orlando to the Promised Land of the NBA Finals, but it was Stan Van Gundy holding the coaching reins by then.

For folks like Davis, Detroit’s Scotty Robertson, Chicago’s Kevin Loughery, Stan Albeck and Doug Collins, Seattle’s K.C. Jones, among those coaches who lived long enough to catch the country ditty “I Got The Boy,” on the radio, I just know they turned that dial all the way up. “Winning” a lottery pick, and even “winning” in the sense of developing the pick into quick stardom, often can mean “losing” a job while coaching up the team around him.

Nurturing a lottery prize into an All-NBA-caliber talent, as a coach, then being tethered for the rise toward championship contention, is awfully rare. Just go off the top of the 2018 NBA Draft alone. How many of the top-ten lottery picks are already on Head Coach #2, or some higher number, in their current locales? I think we can count the coaches still standing – Rick Carlisle, Steve Clifford, Lloyd Pierce – on one hand, and maybe still have a digit or two left over. In their respective cases, hopefully no GMs or owners are thinking of using those fingers to throw up deuces anytime soon.

Kevin Knox didn’t even turn out to be the best takeaway for the Knicks in 2018’s Draft (that would be second-rounder and center Mitchell Robinson, who will miss about a month or so after injuring his hand in Friday’s 119-101 win in Washington). Knox and Robinson transitioned from coaches David Fizdale to Mike Miller to current taskmaster Tom Thibodeau, who has the Knicks feeling as confident as they have in quite some time.

Thibs’ aid in making the Knicks look not-too-shabby is so appreciated, on a high-profile franchise that hasn’t sniffed a playoff appearance in eons, that the fact he has benched and all-but-shelved Knox for the past ten games is no real biggie.

Thibodeau became one of those “You Got The Man” coaches, when he took over for Vinny Del Negro (for the “crime” of back-to-back seasons of .500 ball and first-round exits) right on time for Derrick Rose to become the league’s youngest-ever MVP in his hometown of Chicago.

But Thibs didn’t just simply take over. He crafted a defensive juggernaut around a scoring star not known to exhibit much defense at all, using role players like Taj Gibson to lock opponents down. Perimeter scoring help off the bench from Kyle Korver certainly helped, too.

The balance worked out, to the tune of 60+ win-quality seasons and rave reviews. But for Thibodeau’s reputation for running players into the hardwood, via excessive practices and playing time among those he entrusted, and Rose’s resultant career-changing injury in 2012’s NBA Playoffs, there’s no telling how far the two could have advanced as an offense-defense pair.

Rose never wavered in his outward appreciation for Thibodeau, even after the Bulls years washed out and the two found their way to Minnesota. “I stuck with him and he looked out for me,” D-Rose wrote in his 2019 autobiography, “I’ll Show You,” as his coach leveled with him about his limited control over the now-veteran’s playing time with the T’wolves. “That’s one of the reasons I stuck with him and wanted to come back.” Now they’re reuniting again, and it feels so good.

“I’m feeling grateful, anxious,” said Rose (14.7 PPG and 1.7 SPG in 3 Knicks games, 54.8 FG%), now a former Piston after being traded to New York in exchange for Dennis Smith, Jr., to the New York Post, “but at the same, I know what I have to do coming here. It’s about helping the young guys, playing as hard as I can, and, for one, thanking Thibs.”

Styles clash, as do eras, yet Rose’s age-22, MVP-season stats (24.1 points, 7.4 assists, 3,0 rebounds 1.0 steals per-36; 48.1/33.2/85.8 2FG/3FG/FT shooting splits) can be compared with Trae Young’s current age-22 line (27.2, 9.8, 4.1, 0.7, 45.1/36.7/88.6). Perhaps even favorably, in Young’s case. Unfortunately, a half-baked Hawks team around Young only adds to the skepticism as to whether Pierce will be around to see things through. The swirl of media-borne skepticism around their team’s direction will only heighten as the losses mount and the touted All-Star weekend in Atlanta approaches.

Much was made of LP’s defensive 75-second ramble last week, when pressed about how, exactly, he expects Hawks opponents to “feel us” defensively. If Young (now ahead of only 3 players, out of over 460, with his minus-2.67 DRPM, as per ESPN) sincerely hopes to keep Pierce around, he would do well to adhere to any of those defensive details, focus on perfecting them in games, and then publicly praise his coach when those efforts lead to stops and transition buckets.

To be a player-coach duo worthy of keeping together for the long haul, it’s incumbent upon Young to make opponents, and fans, “feel” them as sympatico. As the subject of LP’s derision, The Athletic’s Chris Kirschner infers, post-game statements after a loss like, “I just think a lot of teams are throwing things at us that we’re not prepared for right now,” are another day, another opportunity to d@mn one’s coaches with not even faint praise.

Trae fans have been miffed by the perception of a souring relationship between the Hawks star and his head coach, likely emanating from the cold reception LP initially gave to Young being omitted from the Team USA “finalist” list of 40-some players last winter. With the likelihood that a multitude of American veterans, particularly those that had limited postseason exposure and can afford to wait for 2024, will graciously bow out of playing under Gregg Popovich, Steve Kerr, and Pierce this summer in Japan, there is a reasonable chance Trae will be tabbed as an alternate. It would be ideal for Young and his coach if, into and through this summer, they still share the same NBA employer.

In New York, Thibs isn’t weighted down with the misguided decisions of Knicks management past, as evidenced by the Smith trade. The regime that passed up on SGA, the Bridges, Empire Stater Kevin Huerter, and Michael Porter for the upside of Knox has been impacted, too. GM Scott Perry now answers to team president Leon Rose, the former CAA super-agent who hopes to woo top-tier talents to Manhattan again, or at least away from that other borough.

A team-wide commitment to inchworm tempo (lowest pace in NBA) and vice-grip defense (107.2 D-Rating, better than all except the Lakers and Jazz) includes Julius Randle, a candidate for All-Star and Most Improved honors (career-highs of 22.4 points, 9.6 D-Rebs and 0.8 steals per game; also 36.6 MPG, because Thibs), Alec Burks (1.2 steals per-36), 35-year-old addition Gibson, and even lotto-rookie Obi Toppin (1.3 blocks per-36). Thibs has taken vinegar to several players’ defensive oil and, with some vigorous shaking, made a tasty vinaigrette.

Even without Robinson, the shot-swatting pivot, the Knicks have shown the ability (and willingness) to step up defensively while dialing up the offense all the way to 11. To sweep its back-to-back this weekend, New York returned from D.C. and heated up the nets by hitting 12 of 28 3FGAs in a 121-99 win over the Rockets. The day before, season-highs of 50 defensive rebounds and 11 steals (4, by the inspired Rose) helped cast a spell on Alex Len and the Brad Beal-less Wizards (held to 9-for-34 on threes).

With steady veteran Elfrid Payton helping rookie Immanuel Quickley handle the rock, the Knicks’ players turned the ball over against Houston just seven times. They’ve only committed more than 20 turnovers as a team on one occasion, back on December 29 in a win at Cleveland. Thibs knows that when his team wins the turnover and loose-ball battles, or, in the case of their win in Atlanta on January 4, taking higher-quality shots, his team gives itself the chance to prevail on most nights. Randle enjoyed a 28 point, 17 rebound, 9 assist evening in Atlanta last month, as did second-year pro RJ Barrett (26 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists) in a similar fashion.

New York starters took just 12 threes against the Hawks last month, sinking only one. But they played to their strengths, unimpeded by Hawks defenders (4 ATL steals, 2 blocks vs. NYK), and superior bench play from Austin Rivers and Quickley helped the Knicks overrun Atlanta in the final frame. As with the 38-13 Pacers fourth-quarter run along the way to a 125-113 home loss on Sunday, it’s a painfully perpetual theme for Atlanta (NBA-worst minus-8.4 4^th-quarter Net Rating, incl. 118.1 D-Rating, 29^th in NBA) that only Pierce, and an offense-minded “closer” in Young (NBA-high 5.7 TOs per-36 in clutch minutes, min. 10 games played), can collaborate to fix.

Nerlens Noel, the #6 pick of 2013’s NBA Draft, moved into the Knicks’ starting lineup on Sunday, in place of Robinson, and he is putting up the kinds of modest yet impactful numbers (last 3 games: 6.7 PPG, 10-for-15 FGs, 5.7 RPG, 2.7 BPG) one can only hope we can one day see out of the NBA’s most recent #6 pick. While Onyeka Okongwu figures out how to blend into Atlanta rotations on both ends of the court, tonight may be a good time to offer Syracuse native Nathan Knight some steadier frontcourt minutes behind Capela and John Collins.

Pierce and his staff get little public credit for helping mid-tier pick Huerter (career-bests of 54.1 eFG%, 1.3 TOs/game and 1.2 SPG) become an All-Rookie second-teamer and a decent perimeter gunner, for ensuring Collins remains a worthy “Hey, let’s see if Atlanta will take our trash so the restricted free agent won’t leave them for nothing!” talent, for helping Clint Capela be the contributor everyone hoped he could be, for helping De’Andre Hunter become the sophomore pro hardly anyone was expecting. And it is just a rolling assumption that Trae’s swift ascension toward All-Star strata is all-natural, a foregone conclusion.

That is all understandable LP’s positive work gets overlooked, given the results in the standings and the scoreboard often fall below expectations for Atlanta’s Basketball Club. Without a voice with gravity standing up on behalf of Coach Pierce before, during, and after the games, with persistent floundering and the appearance of tone-deafness, it isn’t beyond the realm of possibility Young wakes up one morning to a bucket of ice water, courtesy of an old-fashioned drill sergeant like Jim Boylen, or winds up extracting splinters from his video-room seat while enduring a Hubie or a Fratello-type telestrator tongue-lashing.

It’s not Lloyd’s job to be his star player’s eternal source for spotless, sunny dispositions. But Trae and his fellow young core of Hawks may soon figure out, too late, that there ain’t no sunshine when he’s…

 

Let’s Go Hawks!

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

Say, "Chopped Cheese!"

~lw3

[NBASupes]

Al Davis said it best, just win baby win!

[lethalweapon3]

5:30 PM injury report has Fiddle virtuoso Rajon Rondo still out with low back pain. Tony Snell (Achilles) is doubtful.

Besides Mr, Robinson not patrolling his neighborhood, the Knicks are without Frenchie Ntilikina (Health 'n Safety). Jared Harper and Ignas Brazdeikis are down in the Glubble.

 

~lw3

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, lethalweapon3 said:

5:30 PM injury report has Fiddle virtuoso Rajon Rondo still out with low back pain. Tony Snell (Achilles) is doubtful.

Besides Mr, Robinson not patrolling his neighborhood, the Knicks are without Frenchie Ntilikina (Health 'n Safety). Jared Harper and Ignas Brazdeikis are down in the Glubble.

 

~lw3

Glubble ........Love it!

[lethalweapon3]

ICYMI from a few days after the last time these teams played: "You Don't Consume Me! I CONSUME YOU!"

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2021/1/8/22220637/an-ode-to-omari-spellman-who-was-cut-by-the-knicks

~lw3

[Gray Mule]

Dang!  If he's already been released that means we can't trade for him !!!

[lethalweapon3]

Omari's now a reserve for the Erie Bayhawks, for you gluttonous Glubble Fantasy League fans out there.

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/basketball/news/omari-spellman-scores-15-against-austin/

~lw3

[Vol4ever]

I dont think the Hawks will keep Collins and that will be a big mistake IMO.  Nobody is going to give value at this point because of his low salary at 4.1 million. 

[REHawksFan]

10 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

I dont think the Hawks will keep Collins and that will be a big mistake IMO.  Nobody is going to give value at this point because of his low salary at 4.1 million. 

I will be in rare form if TS and company trade JC for a pick or for some non-descript players.  Only trade that would get acceptance from me would be one that brings back a difference maker and I don't think that trade exists.  Let the season play out and match.  I'm with birdie.....trade Gallo if you are determined to trade someone. 

 

 

 

 

[bleachkit]

42 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

ICYMI from a few days after the last time these teams played: "You Don't Consume Me! I CONSUME YOU!"

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2021/1/8/22220637/an-ode-to-omari-spellman-who-was-cut-by-the-knicks

~lw3

I detest almost all commercials. But Taco Bell actually has funny, clever commercials.

[terrell]

1 hour ago, Vol4ever said:

I dont think the Hawks will keep Collins and that will be a big mistake IMO.  Nobody is going to give value at this point because of his low salary at 4.1 million. 

Yeah, but I dont see how the Hawks falling off a cliff once Hunter went down helps Collins..They might see Hunter as the more important player going forward...But I agree, probably not gonna get value for Collins, unless we include Rondo + Snell, or Gallo or Bogi..

Edited February 16, 2021 by terrell

[terrell]

In the Knicks' last game, Rose +17, Quickley +18, Toppin +11. Together they scored 49 points

Can the Hawks depleted bench  keep up with that?

[terrell]

Hawks suck. lol

[GameTime]

LP  is not looking good here right now.

[Marvin24Williams]

Hawks miss shots, opposing team make shots. What else is new 

[bleachkit]

What happened to our defense? Teams are just lighting us up now.

[Carmine]

Umm....

[terrell]

Just now, Marvin24Williams said:

Hawks miss shots, opposing team make shots. What else is new 

Hawks just arent very good..

[RedDawg#8]

Guess we still haven't figured out how to make them "feel us" on defense.

Sounds nice in a presser. Still can't  execute defensively.