Official Game Thread: Hawks at Celtics, Once More, with Feeling!

[Buzzard]

43 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I doubt we make any trades. Who is really going to help us that is readily available? Schlenk mentioned on the radio that it's still unclear who the buyers and sellers are. 

I am sure the hope is this team does not continue to shoot poorly. On paper we have 8 players shooting .360 or better from three. Hunter and Bogdan are out. But that should be more than adequate to compete offensively. As a team though we are shooting .354 from three.

It really is the same old song and dance. A select few poor shooters is bringing the teams efficiency down. The main culprits this season look to be Reddish, Hill, Goodwin, and Rondo. With Reddish and Goodwin looking to have the most consistently negative impact.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Buzzard

[Gray Mule]

After watching most of the game last night I have concluded, we are not very good.

A new, different coach can not change this fact.  Defensively, Hawks are just a step slow.  Offensively, if our shots are falling, we are fine.  If they don't fall, we are trash.  

Last night in Boston is a prime example.  When the game began, Celtics made things easy for themselves and scored a lot of points.  Hawks, on the other hand, shot and shot and didn't score.  

Collins looked terrible.  Huerter looked terrible.  Gallinari looked terrible.  Reddish looked terrible.  With their full starting team available, Boston put an intimidation game on these Hawks.  Made all of them look like G League players.  

Hawks have a #6 draft pick, a center/PF player who can't get off the bench in a blowout game.  He is looking more and more like a wasted pick.  I know.  No summer league, no pre season and injured to open the season.  But, he's apparently well enough now to earn a - - did not play/coaches decision.  If it was a tight, win it or lose it game, he might be held out.  It wasn't.  It was essentially over at the half.  We knew there was very, very little chance right then.  It didn't get any better, really.  

Agent 0017 needs to be in the G League right now.  They aren't going to let him play for the Hawks..

What do I think this Hawk team needs?  An adjustment.  A mental adjustment.  They believe that they are a losing team - - so they lose.  

[terrell]

2 hours ago, Buzzard said:

They have to figure out something on this Collins/Gallinari duo. Defensively they are horrible. Quite possibly one of the worse defensive pairings in the league. Three fourths of the time they are horrible on the offensive end. Gallinari's 3P% is down over .30% and his FG% is down over .60%.

 

 

 Hawks need a legit vet backup Center..smh. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by terrell

[terrell]

Our starting wings are so bad. I wouldn’t mind if they started Solo and Snell for a few games just to see if that helps until Bogi and Hunter are back.

Nothing could be worse than Huerter and Reddish starting together.

Edited February 20, 2021 by terrell

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I am sure the hope is this team does not continue to shoot poorly. On paper we have 8 players shooting .360 or better from three. Hunter and Bogdan are out. But that should be more than adequate to compete offensively. As a team though we are shooting .354 from three.

It really is the same old song and dance. A select few poor shooters is bringing the teams efficiency down. The main culprits this season look to be Reddish, Hill, Goodwin, and Rondo. With Reddish and Goodwin looking to have the most consistently negative impact.

Buzzard . . . did you not just read my post talking about how Brandon Goodin is one of only 7 Hawks on the team that has a + number while on the floor?  I don't make this stuff up man.

Some of you MUST stop looking at all of the negative things that a certain player does, and look at how the team plays while that player is on the floor. 

If Brandon Goodwin plays 8 minutes, and he commits 2 turnovers, shoots 0 - 3 FG . . . but his team is +4 while he's in the game, you can say that if Brandon played better, they'd be +8 or something.   

But if on the defensive end, he got a steal, and held his man to 1 - 4 FG shooting, Brandon's presence on the floor is most likely a push, and his teammates elevated the entire team to get that +4 while he's on the floor.

The data is there.  You don't have to assume what is going on.  Use the data to guide you.

[Buzzard]

10 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Buzzard . . . did you not just read my post talking about how Brandon Goodin is one of only 7 Hawks on the team that has a + number while on the floor?  I don't make this stuff up man.

Some of you MUST stop looking at all of the negative things that a certain player does, and look at how the team plays while that player is on the floor. 

If Brandon Goodwin plays 8 minutes, and he commits 2 turnovers, shoots 0 - 3 FG . . . but his team is +4 while he's in the game, you can say that if Brandon played better, they'd be +8 or something.   

But if on the defensive end, he got a steal, and held his man to 1 - 4 FG shooting, Brandon's presence on the floor is most likely a push, and his teammates elevated the entire team to get that +4 while he's on the floor.

The data is there.  You don't have to assume what is going on.  Use the data to guide you.

I don't really care about trivial stats during blow outs. Goodwin got a ton of minutes last night after Stevens pulled all his starters except Tatum. They were up 25 and Stevens kept them in there way to long after the 4th quarter started.

The Celtics bench has been described by their own fans as a bunch of scrubs. So take last nights showing with a huge grain of salt. And instead pay strict attention to 23 games worth of stats for Goodwin.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Just now, Buzzard said:

I don't really care about trivial stats during blow outs. Goodwin got a ton of minutes last night after Stevens pulled all his starters minus Tatum. They were up 25 and Stevens kept them in there way to long after the 4th quarter started.

The Celtics bench has been described by their own fans as a bunch of scrubs. So take last nights showing with a huge grain of salt. And pay strict attention to 23 games worth of stats for Goodwin.

Brandon only played in the first 5:19 minutes of the 4th, and the Hawks were +11.  That's not a ton of minutes, seeing that he normally was playing in both halves ( until the coaching staff started giving Skylar Mays a shot ). 

He took a grand total of 1 shot.  It was Hill, Snell, and Capela that was doing the work on offense.  Brandon simply did his job on defense.

http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20210219&game=ATLBOS

The trend for Brandon all year, is that the team normally doesn't play horribly when he's in the game.  Not saying that it hasn't happened, because it has.  But it is not the norm.

 

And it was Hawks scrubs vs Celtics scrubs.

[Buzzard]

11 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Brandon only played in the first 5:19 minutes of the 4th, and the Hawks were +11.  That's not a ton of minutes, seeing that he normally was playing in both halves ( until the coaching staff started giving Skylar Mays a shot ). 

He took a grand total of 1 shot.  It was Hill, Snell, and Capela that was doing the work on offense.  Brandon simply did his job on defense.

http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20210219&game=ATLBOS

The trend for Brandon all year, is that the team normally doesn't play horribly when he's in the game.  Not saying that it hasn't happened, because it has.  But it is not the norm.

 

And it was Hawks scrubs vs Celtics scrubs.

Yes it was them against us and I laughed about Stevens on the other board. He was hoping to give Kemba, Brown, Theis, and Thompson the rest of the night off.

With bench players it almost always has to do with who they are playing against. The exception is when they are tossed in with the starting unit. What I like about Mays is he appears to be able to shoot. Open threes work no matter who he is playing against. And the Hawks need all that they can get right now.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

JC is Chris Bosh lite. He's like a modern Chris Bosh if Bosh lacked a 7'5 wingspan and had a 6'10 wingspan and was 15 pounds lighter, and was 6'9.5 instead of 6'11.5. Both are best as #3 options and the whole 9 but Bosh is much better than JC exclusively due to tools. JC and Bosh are consistent but they aren't naturally great. It does bother me JC wants the max being this type of player and makes me appreciate Bosh a lot more.

Calling JC "Chris Bosh lite" is a good comparison.   If he wants that max contract, he needs to be the Toronto version of Bosh.

I do think that Collins need actual plays called for him though.  It's too easy to limit his touches, if teams try to take away the pick and roll.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Calling JC "Chris Bosh lite" is a good comparison.   If he wants that max contract, he needs to be the Toronto version of Bosh.

I do think that Collins need actual plays called for him though.  It's too easy to limit his touches, if teams try to take away the pick and roll.

I am actually talking Miami Bosh. JC value and Bosh in Toronto value is about the same. Bosh is better on offense and JC on defense but the HOF Bosh that we know and love. Two way big is the one JC is mirroring, just no where near as good.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

20 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am actually talking Miami Bosh. JC value and Bosh in Toronto value is about the same. Bosh is better on offense and JC on defense but the HOF Bosh that we know and love. Two way big is the one JC is mirroring, just no where near as good.

Yeah I know you were talking Miami Bosh. when you called him the 3rd option.  Miami Bosh simply had to do his job, and make timely buckets when open.  Miami Bosh was a great complimentary teammate.  Maybe that is Collins' future in this league.

Toronto Bosh is what got him paid though.  Toronto Bosh had all of the offensive tools.  Hopefully for Collins, his team have their eyes wide open on who will be willing to pay big money to get him.  I don't know if that list is as large as he think it is.

[NBASupes]

42 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Yeah I know you were talking Miami Bosh. when you called him the 3rd option.  Miami Bosh simply had to do his job, and make timely buckets when open.  Miami Bosh was a great complimentary teammate.  Maybe that is Collins' future in this league.

Toronto Bosh is what got him paid though.  Toronto Bosh had all of the offensive tools.  Hopefully for Collins, his team have their eyes wide open on who will be willing to pay big money to get him.  I don't know if that list is as large as he think it is.

True but anyone paying has to know the best JC is a Bosh lite verison. If that's the max to you, pay him but it's not max worthy to me.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

True but anyone paying has to know the best JC is a Bosh lite verison. If that's the max to you, pay him but it's not max worthy to me.

 

So is this the best version of John Collins people are going to get?  We've seen him expand his game each year and get better.

I think the next level for him as an offensive player, is to improve his handle and be able to score a lot better off the dribble.   It would also help if he would get a lot stronger.  But if he doesn't, the scoring with the ball in his hands must improve.  I think if he has the right people working with him, he can get there.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

So is this the best version of John Collins people are going to get?  We've seen him expand his game each year and get better.

I think the next level for him as an offensive player, is to improve his handle and be able to score a lot better off the dribble.   It would also help if he would get a lot stronger.  But if he doesn't, the scoring with the ball in his hands must improve.  I think if he has the right people working with him, he can get there.

He really has a slow first step. He could improve as a ball handler and still be limited due to his lack of first step. So much of his offensive impact is based on space and explosiveness. 

His frame has peaked. He kinda is what he is. I am pretty sure we all wanted Cliff Robinson to gain weight and when he did, it was just bad weight. He peaked based on his frame.

[hylndr11]

On 2/20/2021 at 1:22 PM, Gray Mule said:

After watching most of the game last night I have concluded, we are not very good.

A new, different coach can not change this fact.  Defensively, Hawks are just a step slow.  Offensively, if our shots are falling, we are fine.  If they don't fall, we are trash.  

Last night in Boston is a prime example.  When the game began, Celtics made things easy for themselves and scored a lot of points.  Hawks, on the other hand, shot and shot and didn't score.  

Collins looked terrible.  Huerter looked terrible.  Gallinari looked terrible.  Reddish looked terrible.  With their full starting team available, Boston put an intimidation game on these Hawks.  Made all of them look like G League players.  

Hawks have a #6 draft pick, a center/PF player who can't get off the bench in a blowout game.  He is looking more and more like a wasted pick.  I know.  No summer league, no pre season and injured to open the season.  But, he's apparently well enough now to earn a - - did not play/coaches decision.  If it was a tight, win it or lose it game, he might be held out.  It wasn't.  It was essentially over at the half.  We knew there was very, very little chance right then.  It didn't get any better, really.  

Agent 0017 needs to be in the G League right now.  They aren't going to let him play for the Hawks..

What do I think this Hawk team needs?  An adjustment.  A mental adjustment.  They believe that they are a losing team - - so they lose.  

This isn't the nfl , being gm and scouting isn't the same, so many fewer players and a lot less moving parts, it's not the same job and schlenk is given far too much credit and we just go to golden state assuming they are all golden in the org, most GMs would have made similar decisions he did based on our draft positions, unfortunately the lottery didn't go our way as much as we needed as far as where we picked, these players just aren't that good, it makes sense that restler doesnt want to wait because John is in his 4th year , sure we can keep saying they need time etc but if they were as good as we hoped we would see more consistency within metrics and without, and we can't keep ppl while we wait for years etc,  I think we end up back where we were in 15 and 16 holding onto trae but only ever getting a few pieces around him before well have to let him go and start over.  Most on the board are correct coaching isn't the issue but they will be fired first and we'll have another one before schlenk is tossed as well 

Edited February 22, 2021 by hylndr11

[RedDawg#8]

I have no issue with JC right now.

As a team, we still have not made it a priority to run offense for him. Clint is taking up a lot of the garbage rebounds and put backs that JC would normally collect. Yet JC is still finding ways to impact games.

He is far more consistent than some of the other "core" guys. And his shooting efficiency rivals several names that we hold in high regard. Defensively, he is not done growing, but he has made big strides.

If we gave him a larger role and he floundered, that would be one thing. But we have actually shrunk his role, reduced his scoring opportunities, and forced him to play more outside in, yet here we are. He is still out playing Al Horford.. (trigger) lol.

[JayBirdHawk]

37 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

He is still out playing Al Horford.. (trigger) lol.