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Let’s drop our agendas and rise as one


Spud2nique

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25 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

As @REHawksFan said, I reject what you are trying to define as being 'agenda driven'. 

What we are saying with Trae needing to score the basketball, is no different from what @Peoriabird and i said earlier in the season about LP needing to put more emphasis on rebounding and defense, in order to improve the team.  And that consistently playing small was not a good thing for the Hawks. 

You have very good posters on this site who sometimes take very controversial positions about this team, and stand by them until proven wrong. A guy like @Diesel ranted against Marvin Williams during his entire tenure as a Hawk.  Most of us got tired of him beating Marvin down, to the point that someone made a gif of a horse with Marvin's jersey on, being beaten.  Now I'm not for animal abuse, but the gif was accurate.

Guess what though. Diesel was proven to be RIGHT!

How about @KB21?  He easily became one of the most hated members on this site, with the things he was saying about the state of this team. 3 years later, at least 75% of the things he was saying, was right.

What about the Tankers vs Anti-Tankers debate.  Once again, you had people on both sides of the aisle on this topic.

Over the years, I've been right and wrong on a variety of topics:

  • Shelden Williams can play center
  • Mike Woodson wasn't as bad as people made him out to be
  • Acie Law is the future PG of the Hawks
  • Josh Smith should play PF, even try being a Diaw-like center, instead of trying to play like a SF
  • eFG% is fraudulent, especially it comes to average 3 point shooters
  • Dennis Schröder should start in front of Teague
  • Thabo Sefolosha sucks ( when we first acquired him )
  • Thabo Sefolosha is the glue guy for the Hawks ( after seeing how the bench never lost leads with him in the game )
  • We shouldn't have tanked
  • and on and on and on.

The great thing about this site is that the mods will give you the freedom to express anything you want, so as you're not going at other members. If it's simply a debate about basketball and the Hawks in general, they will let you go.  This is what @AHF has consistently told members.  Talk about basketball. Not about people.

Even though some of us cross the line at times ( including myself ), it doesn't mean that members should just be quiet and not talk about things they see about the team.  If you and Peoria feel that Trae needs to be more of a facilitator than a scorer, you are perfectly free to express that opinion.  If REhawksFan and I feel that Trae should score more than he facilitates, we should be free to express that as well.

But you can't get mad when we cite numbers to back up what we're saying.  If the Hawks are 11 - 0 when he scores 32 points or more . . and 14 - 8 when he scores 28 points or more, why does that prompt you into saying that "we have an agenda"?  Those are simply facts.  What I would tell you is to show / tell me why those facts do not matter.  That's the basis for debate.

 

Last thing. How boring would this site be if everyone agreed, or held all dissenting opinion to themselves?  Go check out the past topics in Homecourt.  We have almost 1900 pages of Hawks history on this site, full of jubilation, pain, and flat out wars between posters.  It's a reason why this forum has survived and been so lively, for so long.

 

Post of the year!  But for the record, my statement about Trae is that I want him to make the right decisions on the court.  It doesn't matter whether is scoring or facilitating and stopping those Darn killer live ball turnovers

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Just now, kg01 said:

Why can't y'all just embrace what spud tried to do here?  Why you gotta nitpick?  Guy wants us to all be civil, not all agree.  That's all.  Is that so wrong?

So what does that look like KG?

If Trae plays great, does that mean that no one can acknowledge that he played well?   If he plays bad, does that mean no one gets to criticize him?

What about Solomon Hill?  Since everyone is mainly aligned that his minutes should be cut or eliminated, does that mean that no one can talk about Solo?  Watch the comments tonight, if Nate decides to start Gallo and Solo on the frontline, if Capela gets some rest tonight.

 

I just don't see why members have to mute themselves, in order to preserve the feelings of others.  Especially if we're talking about the team, and not other members.

Take a position ( or not ).  Defend it however you want ( with facts or opinions ).  And root for the overall success of the team.

 

It's not that hard. 

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20 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

As @REHawksFan said, I reject what you are trying to define as being 'agenda driven'. 

What we are saying with Trae needing to score the basketball, is no different from what @Peoriabird and i said earlier in the season about LP needing to put more emphasis on rebounding and defense, in order to improve the team.  And that consistently playing small was not a good thing for the Hawks. 

You have very good posters on this site who sometimes take very controversial positions about this team, and stand by them until proven wrong. A guy like @Diesel ranted against Marvin Williams during his entire tenure as a Hawk.  Most of us got tired of him beating Marvin down, to the point that someone made a gif of a horse with Marvin's jersey on, being beaten.  Now I'm not for animal abuse, but the gif was accurate.

Guess what though. Diesel was proven to be RIGHT!

How about @KB21?  He easily became one of the most hated members on this site, with the things he was saying about the state of this team. 3 years later, at least 75% of the things he was saying, was right.

What about the Tankers vs Anti-Tankers debate.  Once again, you had people on both sides of the aisle on this topic.

Over the years, I've been right and wrong on a variety of topics:

  • Shelden Williams can play center
  • Mike Woodson wasn't as bad as people made him out to be
  • Acie Law is the future PG of the Hawks
  • Josh Smith should play PF, even try being a Diaw-like center, instead of trying to play like a SF
  • eFG% is fraudulent, especially it comes to average 3 point shooters
  • Dennis Schröder should start in front of Teague
  • Thabo Sefolosha sucks ( when we first acquired him )
  • Thabo Sefolosha is the glue guy for the Hawks ( after seeing how the bench never lost leads with him in the game )
  • We shouldn't have tanked
  • and on and on and on.

The great thing about this site is that the mods will give you the freedom to express anything you want, so as you're not going at other members. If it's simply a debate about basketball and the Hawks in general, they will let you go.  This is what @AHF has consistently told members.  Talk about basketball. Not about people.

Even though some of us cross the line at times ( including myself ), it doesn't mean that members should just be quiet and not talk about things they see about the team.  If you and Peoria feel that Trae needs to be more of a facilitator than a scorer, you are perfectly free to express that opinion.  If REhawksFan and I feel that Trae should score more than he facilitates, we should be free to express that as well.

But you can't get mad when we cite numbers to back up what we're saying.  If the Hawks are 11 - 0 when he scores 32 points or more . . and 14 - 8 when he scores 28 points or more, why does that prompt you into saying that "we have an agenda"?  Those are simply facts.  What I would tell you is to show / tell me why those facts do not matter.  That's the basis for debate.

 

Last thing. How boring would this site be if everyone agreed, or held all dissenting opinion to themselves?  Go check out the past topics in Homecourt.  We have almost 1900 pages of Hawks history on this site, full of jubilation, pain, and flat out wars between posters.  It's a reason why this forum has survived and been so lively, for so long.

 

Major props for admitting your takes over the years and checking the score. Very few posters here would have the stones to do that. Instead they will obfuscate, deny, or spin what they said. 

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9 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Honestly by sports message board standards, the Squawk is not very toxic. The Falcons message board is way more toxic. 

Correct!  We can disagree and still be civil.  

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1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

A guy like @Diesel ranted against Marvin Williams during his entire tenure as a Hawk.  Most of us got tired of him beating Marvin down, to the point that someone made a gif of a horse with Marvin's jersey on, being beaten.  Now I'm not for animal abuse, but the gif was accurate.

Should that gif had been permitted since it was understood inherently to be a personal shot at a poster by others who were responding to his relentlessness?

Don't take my asking the question to mean I necessarily have a strong opinion either way... right?... but rather, just see the question as a natural follow-up to gain clarity on how you see it.

 

Here's what I wrote in PM form to someone on this board this time last year... ie who will remain anonymous... but it goes to the point that sometimes people feel attacked in a personal way when they really should only feel their opinion/conclusion was attacked... and that, like it or not, is fair game, or if not, why are we even here?

 

LWR_Recording.png

(And, no, fwiw, I've not engaged in any dialogue with His Whiny-ness since... and that's seemed to work out just fine.)

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5 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Honestly by sports message board standards, the Squawk is not very toxic. The Falcons message board is way more toxic. 

 

I mean, look at this thread from 2013, when the Hawks were in limbo about what to do going forward.  Opinions were all over the place on what we should do.  I was big time on the Al Jefferson bandwagon, or finding a way to get Dwight Howard / Chris Paul here.

LOL . . the spats that go on now is child's play, compared to back then.   You really had to back up every opinion you put out in those days.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I mean, look at this thread from 2013, when the Hawks were in limbo about what to do going forward.  Opinions were all over the place on what we should do.  I was big time on the Al Jefferson bandwagon, or finding a way to get Dwight Howard / Chris Paul here.

LOL . . the spats that go on now is child's play, compared to back then.   You really had to back up every opinion you put out in those days.

 

 

Checking to see what stupid take I had, lol.

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You are all my family. I will disagree with you at times but I personally will remember we all love the Hawks and that’s what brought us to this site. Yes, other sites are toxic as hell, this one is the best. I’m just aiming to be more respectful on a personal level. I respect ✊🏾 all of you and have to remember that if I wouldn’t say something to you if we were in person then I shouldn’t type it on a keyboard ⌨️.

I’m learning and trying to progress each day.

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1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So what does that look like KG?

If Trae plays great, does that mean that no one can acknowledge that he played well?   If he plays bad, does that mean no one gets to criticize him?

What about Solomon Hill?  Since everyone is mainly aligned that his minutes should be cut or eliminated, does that mean that no one can talk about Solo?  Watch the comments tonight, if Nate decides to start Gallo and Solo on the frontline, if Capela gets some rest tonight.

 

I just don't see why members have to mute themselves, in order to preserve the feelings of others.  Especially if we're talking about the team, and not other members.

Take a position ( or not ).  Defend it however you want ( with facts or opinions ).  And root for the overall success of the team.

 

It's not that hard. 

My main issue is folks who complain but disappear when things go well.  I don't mind disagreeing.  That's normal.

Being giddy about the team failing simply because it gives one a reason to complain.  That ain't normal.

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12 minutes ago, kg01 said:

My main issue is folks who complain but disappear when things go well.  I don't mind disagreeing.  That's normal.

Being giddy about the team failing simply because it gives one a reason to complain.  That ain't normal.

I don't know of many posters that do that.  There are some extreme post here and there.  Heck even extremely popular posters like @NBASupes can go off the rails a bit from time to time but almost every poster reemerges at some point during the season

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28 minutes ago, kg01 said:

My main issue is folks who complain but disappear when things go well.  I don't mind disagreeing.  That's normal.

Being giddy about the team failing simply because it gives one a reason to complain.  That ain't normal.

The only posters I'm mistrustful of are ones with very few posts (<100), because they could always be trolls. Usually they comment during the live game threads more so than other threads.

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21 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I don't know of many posters that do that.  There are some extreme post here and there.  Heck even extremely popular posters like @NBASupes can go off the rails a bit from time to time but almost every poster reemerges at some point during the season

What I find strange is when people have such strong opinions about players in the draft. Like really? The draft is a complete and utter crapshoot, it is notoriously hard to predict. And every year some become busts, some become average players, some become above average players, and some become stars. And there is absolutely no rhyme or reason to it. Let's take 2018 for example. There was no Luka hype before the draft. There was virtually zero Trae hype. The players with most buzz were Deandre Ayton and Marvin Bagley. Supes was huge on Bagley, hated JJJ. The doctor loved JJJ and hated Bagley. Every year it's like that. I mean there is absolutely no predicting who becomes good in the draft. If Dallas hadn't got Luka, they were set to take Bamba, who is basically a total bust. So instead of being geniuses, they would have been morons. And this year's draft, which everyone said was supposed to be crap. Lamelo Ball looks like he could be a superstar. Quite a few other guys like Halliburton have been good. You cannot predict this stuff. So I never understand why people have such strong sentiments on something that is so impossible to predict. It's like arguing which lottery numbers are the best.

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4 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

What I find strange is when people have such strong opinions about players in the draft. Like really? The draft is a complete and utter crapshoot, it is notoriously hard to predict. And every year some become busts, some become average players, some become above average players, and some become stars. And there is absolutely no rhyme or reason to it. Let's take 2018 for example. There was no Luka hype before the draft. There was virtually zero Trae hype. The players with most buzz were Deandre Ayton and Marvin Bagley. Supes was huge on Bagley, hated JJJ. The doctor loved JJJ and hated Bagley. Every year it's like that. I mean there is absolutely no predicting who becomes good in the draft. If Dallas hadn't got Luka, they were set to take Bamba, who is basically a total bust. So instead of being geniuses, they would have been morons. And this year's draft, which everyone said was supposed to be crap. Lamelo Ball looks like he could be a superstar. Quite a few other guys like Halliburton have been good. You cannot predict this stuff. So I never understand why people have such strong sentiments on something that is so impossible to predict. It's like arguing which lottery numbers are the best.

And they stick with that draft pick no matter how he looks over an adequate sample size.

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I'll leave this here:

giphy.gif

 

Seriously though, I'm one of those guys who calls it as I see it. If your play sucks - whether you're my Dad, the superstar, or the 13th guy on the bench, I'm gonna talk smack about you. Period. That said, more is always expected of the stars and superstars, and their performance needs to be elevated as their stature and talent inherently dictate. Simple as that.

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