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Official Game Thread: Wizards at Hawks (Hump Day, 7 PM Tip!)


lethalweapon3

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2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Lou wasn't injured all season. Like I just don't get how you call a signing a bust.  They signed him and knew he was injured and signed him at a discount.  Now they are like sit out we will use you next year.  I don't understand how a two year contract is called a bust when the market for Chris Dunn was about $10 million a year.  You don't call a transaction a bust that's not complete.  Was Clint Capela a bust because he didn't play last year and started off slow this year?  

If Dunn continues not to play next year, then for sure you can make that accusation.  Hell, Travis could trade him next year or something and get a first rounder for him.  I just don't like the term bust for transactions that aren't complete. 

 

Hawks will get a 1st rounder in a Dunn trade next year? Um, no. You must be a glass half full guy. I think there will be a mutual parting this summer. Dunn will go somewhere he can get minutes, and Hawks will sign or draft a back up PG. 

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4 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Hawks will get a 1st rounder in a Dunn trade next year? Um, no. You must be a glass half full guy. I think there will be a mutual parting this summer. Dunn will go somewhere he can get minutes, and Hawks will sign or draft a back up PG. 

You must know the future because you're so sure of everything. I was throwing out a hypothetical because that's what you were doing whenever you said "it's unlikely" he will sign.  I didn't say the Hawks will get a first for him, I said they could.  It's not unlikely for the Hawks to get a late first rounder for him if he defends well next season and the Hawks trade him at the deadline.  

I am a glass half good type person because negativity doesn't get you far in life.  I'm not sure what you are though. 

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5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

You must know the future because you're so sure of everything. I was throwing out a hypothetical because that's what you were doing whenever you said "it's unlikely" he will sign.  I didn't say the Hawks will get a first for him, I said they could.  It's not unlikely for the Hawks to get a late first rounder for him if he defends well next season and the Hawks trade him at the deadline.  

I am a glass half good type person because negativity doesn't get you far in life.  I'm not sure what you are though. 

A realist. There is no chance in hell the Hawks get a first round pick for Dunn. Teams dont just give away 1st round picks. They sure as hell dont trade them for expiring defensive role players. 

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2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

A realist. There is no chance in hell the Hawks get a first round pick for Dunn. Teams dont just give away 1st round picks. They sure as hell dont trade them for expiring defensive role players. 

A realist wouldn't say there's no chance of anything happening because there's always a chance. 

A realist would say there's a slim chance of this happening.  Seems like you're getting emotional about this. 

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37 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I never understand why we as fans latch on to things so much.  Chris Dunn played two games and wasn't the stopper he was before. Yet we are clamoring for him to play just because of our feelings.  Yes, at times, I'm like what can it hurt when Westbrook goes off, or some other guard. 

However, maybe Nate is preparing the guys that will be on the court for most of the time in the playoffs for these situations? 

It's always something. We are winning. I don't care how we win.  Just win. If we start losing, then its a valid complaint to start asking why such and such isn't in the rotation.  Until then IDC.

Not really trying to defend Dunn here because all of this stuff is pretty confusing and irritating but when he got on the court the first time he was hit with two fouls in about a minute right off the bat. Not sure of the effect from that but makes me think the refs are aware of him and his rep. If he was on the Knicks would those fouls been called? Doubt it. 

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20 minutes ago, sturt said:

It will be interesting to see how Dunn and his agent perceive this situation, and ultimately, whether this is just a temporary thing where McM is concerned and next season he would get on the floor, or it's to be assumed that McM still would relegate him to mop-up minutes. That perception will drive the decision on his player option.

(That, of course, assumes McM will be back as the permanent guy, and assumes that there isn't another team out there willing to offer the same or more money... both of which seem highly probable.)

I'm a broken record on this, me. I just think a player who is ubiquitously considered one of the league's elite defenders has to be viewed in the same light as one who is ubiquitously considered one of the league's elite offensive threats--and that anything at all that you get from either of those guys on the other end of the court is just gravy.

In other words, for the same reason you'd be playing Trae Young right now if he'd had an ankle and knee injury to overcome this season but now was considered 100%... you really ought to be playing Kris Dunn.

Both are capable of affecting a game in a big way--Trae for the points he can score, Kris for the points he can keep the primary offensive wing weapon on the other team from scoring.

I said previously, no one has called me yet to ask me to coach even a high school team, and so I have to keep some humility about me and recognize that Nate obviously more than knows what he's doing. But I'm allowed to make observations, and whereas rocket science is an area where I have very little exposure, basketball is one where I have as much as probably most anyone else in Hawk fandom... and to me, it just forces a person to consider if the head coach might be just a bit too stubborn/head strong, when the other team has a Westbrook who is fundamental to their success, and he has a well-established neutralizer on the bench that he just... won't... even... give a chance to even see if he could be effective.

And I do wish, at least, the Hawks media would press him on it. Because this is going to happen again at some point in the remaining games we have, and against competition that is stronger than the Wizards.

And I'd like to hear a fuller explanation now, after we've won a couple that we won by the closest of margins... instead of later, when we may have lost, and when it might seem more prickly to ask and less likely to get that fuller explanation.

 

To be fair, Dunn did get an opportunity to show and prove and we got blown out those games.  Nate also has the benefit of practice too. I believe Dunn just hasn’t shown enough this year to get in the rotation. Everyone knows that the playoff rotations shorten and fortunately we have an outstanding bench. When it comes to Lou, another poster pointed out that he is being asked to facilitate first, then look to score on the second unit. When this is reversed, When Kevin goes back to the second unit, I think you will see a much better Lou. If my job was on the line and I had to go with Lou Williams or Kris Dunn in a reduced rotation, I would no doubt go with Lou. 

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To no one in particular...

 

First, BogBog had about 7 games as I recall after he got back that had some Hawks fans asking, paraphrasing, "what's the point of giving this guy minutes?!?"

But what are they saying now? Would we be in a better position or a worse position had McM given up on his contribution based on the first games after injury?

Hope the point is well-taken.

Second, should we take our wins in these two most recent games to mean there's really no reason to expect we couldn't have performed better?... in other words, is there no room for saying those wins were substantially more in-doubt than they needed to be?... and, thus... is there no room for wondering aloud if maybe, same decision-making applied to a game against a somewhat better team, and especially so on the opposing team's court, plausibly could result in a disappointing loss, and needlessly so...?

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20 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It's unfortunate that Dunn was injured the entire time, I would have really liked to see a backup PG battle for minutes.  Unfortunately, per Nate, that ship seems to have sailed with the playoffs right around the corner (feels good to say that) and trying to establish a rhythm and identity for the 2nd unit.

We would all like to think his defense will offset his offense, but unfortunately a guy who has missed almost 15 months of basketball and still on a minutes restriction will only see spot minutes at best.  Will that be enough time to acclimate to his new teammates considering the stakes. 

Lou had played 15 games before Dunn played his first, so he was establishing a rhythm with the 2nd group.  If Dunn had played at the end of the 8 game road trip back at the beginning of April (like TS implied), there could have been a genuine battle for playing time between him and Lou.

Do I think Nate can give him a few minutes on a hot guy? sure, but we have not seen enough of him to determine if he will be THAT DEFENSIVE GUY that we remember - I would have like to find out even for a bit though.  But Nate sees Dunn in practice, so I will assume he is taking his que from that as well.

But I'm not gonna lose  sleep if Dunn isn't in the playoff rotation.

It also wouldn't shock me if he got in the rotation v. a team like Brooklyn, Warriors, Lakers, Utah where they have a tremendous guard situation that can make it tough for us. But v. Miami, NYK, or even Philly, he's not needed much. 

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Anybody notice Trae got 'the treatment' (in a good way) from the BSPN broadcast last night.

Mark Jackson had some nice praise for Trae at times.  Imagine being one of the teams that get shoved down folks' throats by having 83 games on national TV and you can start to 'get' how they form the narrative(s) on players.

Although we were on the good(sic) side of it for once.  It still felt a lil' icky.  Oh well, guess we gotta get used to it ...

200w.webp?cid=ecf05e47y9k94wtjw8a628xffv

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30 minutes ago, sturt said:

To no one in particular...

 

First, BogBog had about 7 games as I recall after he got back that had some Hawks fans asking, paraphrasing, "what's the point of giving this guy minutes?!?"

But what are they saying now? Would we be in a better position or a worse position had McM given up on his contribution based on the first games after injury?

Hope the point is well-taken.

Second, should we take our wins in these two most recent games to mean there's really no reason to expect we couldn't have performed better?... in other words, is there no room for saying those wins were substantially more in-doubt than they needed to be?... and, thus... is there no room for wondering aloud if maybe, same decision-making applied to a game against a somewhat better team, and especially so on the opposing team's court, plausibly could result in a disappointing loss, and needlessly so...?

To no one in particular. 

What if, and i can't stress the if part enough, said player came in and the team performed worst.  We can play the what if game all the time and will never know.  Facts are team won point blank simple. 

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9 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Anybody notice Trae got 'the treatment' (in a good way) from the BSPN broadcast last night.

Mark Jackson had some nice praise for Trae at times.  Imagine being one of the teams that get shoved down folks' throats by having 83 games on national TV and you can start to 'get' how they form the narrative(s) on players.

Although we were on the good(sic) side of it for once.  It still felt a lil' icky.  Oh well, guess we gotta get used to it ...

200w.webp?cid=ecf05e47y9k94wtjw8a628xffv

No! I refused to watch it and listen that tribal. Stuck with Bob and Niq all the way through. 

Side note, I wonder if Vince will be a bigger part of the team going forward. I'd love that. He's actually really good. 

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3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I started with them and had to switch to Bally.  Were those guys even awake?   I swear Mark Jackson is a terrible announcer.  This is hilarious

 

 

Imagine if that was Luka...ESPN wouldve lost their minds...lol

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I don't like the idea of just issuing a blanket statement that Dunn won't play in the playoffs (absent injuries).  Dunn and Lou serve very different roles on the floor.  To me the ideal would be to have both guys ready to play - even if Nate has Dunn prepping primarily in practice right now.  Lou is a poor defender; Dunn at anything approaching normal health is a very strong one.  This seems an ideal situation to have both ready to play and deploy them according to the needs of the team.  Dunn has been egregiously bad offensively so far but this is early after a major injury so I don't draw too much from this.

As for the future trade value of Dunn, I would say the chances of being able to trade Dunn for a first round pick is almost beyond negligible.  If he is in sufficient demand that someone would even consider that, he would be better off opting out of his deal and signing a new one for more than $5M.   

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6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

No! I refused to watch it and listen that tribal. Stuck with Bob and Niq all the way through. 

Side note, I wonder if Vince will be a bigger part of the team going forward. I'd love that. He's actually really good. 

I was out and about, BSPN stream didn't crap out on me.

Sidenote, am I the only one that finds Bally's app to be markedly worse than the FoxSportsGo one used to be?  It's terrible

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Just now, kg01 said:

I was out and about, BSPN stream didn't crap out on me.

Sidenote, am I the only one that finds Bally's app to be markedly worse than the FoxSportsGo one used to be?  It's terrible

It's Bootay!  And when you have to restart you have to watch two commercials and miss game action.

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2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

It's Bootay!  And when you have to restart you have to watch two commercials and miss game action.

Gotta love when it craps out, you have to restart, the two commercials play perfectly but when it's time for the game to start ... crap out again.  Wash, rinse, repeat ... 4 more times before the game comes back on.

FoxSports did the same but not nearly as bad.

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