John Collins - Max kat, 90 million-4yrs kat, or Gallo salary kat

[NBASupes]

What do you think based on what you seen so far. 

To me, he's the 5th most important player on our team maybe at best is a 6th man on a legit contender. Once Cam gets it together, likely 6th and Okongwu potential can be special and push him to 7th long term. I want to resign him but cost is everything. JC can't be a 6th or 7th man making 25 million a year in 2023 or 2024. 

I think him and Gallo should be on the same type of contracts honestly.

I'll rather resign Kevin for 4/50-60 range than JC at 4/70-80. 

What about you? What do you think?

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Once Cam gets it together, likely 6th and Okongwu potential can be special and push him to 7th long term.

Hopes and dreams! 

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

JC can't be a 6th or 7th man making 25 million a year in 2023 or 2024.

If by the time OO is due his extension we will have a better idea if he's ready for that bigger offensive role so JC would more that like be traded already or on the trade block. John will have 2 years left on his contract if OO is deemed good enough to be signing an EARLY extension.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Hopes and dreams! 

They aren't that far. Hunter was literally last on our youth chart behind everyone after his rookie season and he's our 2nd most important piece long term right now. We are so young, guys can fly up or down the board quickly. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

Hawks offered 4/$90.  The most another team can offer is 4/$120 or 4/$123 (depending on $112 or $115 salary cap), which I don't think he will get.

He'll fall somewhere between $90-$120/$123 - either from the Hawks or another team. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If by the time OO is due his extension we will have a better idea if he's ready for that bigger offensive role so JC would more that like be traded already or on the trade block. John will have 2 years left on his contract if OO is deemed good enough to be signing an EARLY extension.

Teams like Utah and Phoenix don't have players badly overpaid. Bogi and Capela are paid correctly. Gallo is overpaid but we have an out after next season. That same offseason, Hunter and Reddish are due for an extension 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

They aren't that far. Hunter was literally last on our youth chart behind everyone after his rookie season and he's our 2nd most important piece long term right now. We are so young, guys can fly up or down the board quickly. 

I would be happy if true.  All improvements aren't linear though.  

When the season started, the Kevin Huerter we are seeing in the playoffs wasn't the same guy we saw to start the season, lots of people wanted him gone.  Hunter's unexpected rise to start the season vs Cam's struggles.

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Teams like Utah and Phoenix don't have players badly overpaid. Bogi and Capela are paid correctly. Gallo is overpaid but we have an out after next season. That same offseason, Hunter and Reddish are due for an extension 

OK.

[hylndr11]

Well need.to replace Gallo or him.either way , I don't really want jc but what is your alternative

[sturt]

I like what I envision John Collins to be at age 24 (next season).

I really like what I envision John Collins to be at age 25, ostensibly at or near his likely plateau in terms of production.

I love what I envision John Collins to be at age 26, ostensibly filling out physically into his adult physique, slightly thicker especially in the chest.

I really love what I envision John Collins to be at age 27, ostensibly at or near his likely plateau in terms of overall maturity (in addition to actual production).

 

And.

 

I believe that the Huerter contract situation is almost certainly going to be handled as the JC situation has been--he'll get another year to give the front office the fullest possible evidence of whether he's the long-term SG answer.

If he is convincing, then the more likely scenario is that either Ressler will be proven to live-up to his claim that he's prepared to endure some significant tax as long as the team is a serious contender... or... the older BogBog will be trade bait (not Huerter).

 

[Marvin24Williams]

4/$90 million is my sweet spot for him, just not a fan of anything above that. Obviously though, the Hawks can't afford to lose a player of his caliber so they should match anything in restricted FA if a trade can't be made. 

[aali34]

His current play doesn't warrant a max to me, but the market dictates his worth which will be around max level. He can't create for himself well and if Trae isn't creating looks for him he's almost invisible on offense. He can't score in crowds unless he has a straight line to the rim and his handles are suspect.  

I don't think John's development is done. He's grown every year and has had his role change each season. I think now he knows where he fits on the team and what areas he needs to improve to be most effective. Remember this was his first time playing major minutes as a perimeter player and he did well in the regular season.

I'd like him to come back next season better at attacking from the wing and closeouts and also develop some go-to spots in the midrange. 

4/90 is what I'd prefer.

Edited June 11, 2021 by aali34

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

They aren't that far. Hunter was literally last on our youth chart behind everyone after his rookie season and he's our 2nd most important piece long term right now. We are so young, guys can fly up or down the board quickly. 

Including Collins, who can take his game to the next level by developing his off the dribble offensive skills.

As for Cam, he has one more season before the Hawks may have to decide to deal him ... to make room for a Kevin Huerter extension.

He's the one that's going to make Cam expendable.

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

What do you think based on what you seen so far. 

To me, he's the 5th most important player on our team maybe at best is a 6th man on a legit contender. Once Cam gets it together, likely 6th and Okongwu potential can be special and push him to 7th long term. I want to resign him but cost is everything. JC can't be a 6th or 7th man making 25 million a year in 2023 or 2024. 

I think him and Gallo should be on the same type of contracts honestly.

I'll rather resign Kevin for 4/50-60 range than JC at 4/70-80. 

What about you? What do you think?

They won't "sign" JC, they are going to match JC. The market will make that call. Then they'll hold him for a year and try to trade him (IMHO). Personally, I'd see if there was a way to pry Obi Toppin loose and let him have the spot in a year or two if he earns it.

 

[Spud2nique]

Okongwu will have more of an impact on winning than Collins down the road due to his defense but surprising offense as well. Having said that, I love John. He works. I love our team, I know we can’t keep everyone and our roster will look different in a couple years but I love these guys.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I would be happy if true.  All improvements aren't linear though.  

When the season started, the Kevin Huerter we are seeing in the playoffs wasn't the same guy we saw to start the season, lots of people wanted him gone.  Hunter's unexpected rise to start the season vs Cam's struggles.

OK.

It is and you just proved it. These guys are young af. They can up way up or way down. Especially the wing players as we saw already with Hunter and Kevin. Okongwu is a rookie, he's either going to stay in last or near last for our youth chart or he will shoot up too. 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

I like what I envision John Collins to be at age 24 (next season).

I really like what I envision John Collins to be at age 25, ostensibly at or near his likely plateau in terms of production.

I love what I envision John Collins to be at age 26, ostensibly filling out physically into his adult physique, slightly thicker especially in the chest.

I really love what I envision John Collins to be at age 27, ostensibly at or near his likely plateau in terms of overall maturity (in addition to actual production).

 

And.

 

I believe that the Huerter contract situation is almost certainly going to be handled as the JC situation has been--he'll get another year to give the front office the fullest possible evidence of whether he's the long-term SG answer.

If he is convincing, then the more likely scenario is that either Ressler will be proven to live-up to his claim that he's prepared to endure some significant tax as long as the team is a serious contender... or... the older BogBog will be trade bait (not Huerter).

 

I am envisioning him as similar to what he is now. Every year we see some minor improving but he hasn't really improved impact wise since his Soph year and all of the fears of what I imagine would happen in the playoffs is happening. 

Him and Clint offensively are being exposed but Clint isn't paid for that, he's paid for his defense. Playoff JC to me is a 6th man, i never envisioned him being more that either. 

You see what I can't see because I don't see none of that shit. I see improvements but not major improvements, especially physically. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

36 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Including Collins, who can take his game to the next level by developing his off the dribble offensive skills.

As for Cam, he has one more season before the Hawks may have to decide to deal him ... to make room for a Kevin Huerter extension.

He's the one that's going to make Cam expendable.

There is zero chance Cam will be expendable till he becomes valuable. As of right now, he hasn't shown his value yet other than potential and flashes overall. The issue is, when he does, his value will skyrocket. Two way wings are the most valuable players in the NBA outside of scoring playmakers who are dominating the NBA right now. 

JC is valuable. Hell, his low end in Gallo contract who is valuable as well. The question is how valuable and at the risk of our future. I think not. Gallo is overpaid for a key 6th man type but we have no real contracts so it doesn't matter but it will for JC if he's not good enough in future playoffs.

Kevin has made himself the 6th man of the future aka the 6th starter. That has value around the league. He needs to stay and he's gonna cost us but he's shown up in these playoffs and that's how you get paid. He hasn't been exposed. He's exposed himself to the world like Trae and Bogi have.

Edited June 11, 2021 by NBASupes

[REHawksFan]

The problem I have with JC is the same as I've always said about him, he requires someone else to feed him for him to have any impact on the game whatsoever.  And even then, he just disappears far too often.  

In the postseason order of business, I would extend Kevin before I even worried about JC.  I think Kevin is way more important to the long term health and success of this franchise than JC is.  And he's proven that in these first 7 games of the playoffs. The only problem I have with just letting JC walk is they wouldn't have any money to replace him and they still need a 4. JC isn't worthless, he's just not overly impactful, to me.   

So I guess for me, the proper play is exactly what @thecampster said to do, match whatever the market says and then try to trade him in a year for someone that makes more sense on this roster.  

I don't hate JC, I just don't think he's impactful at all.   

[NBASupes]

Just now, REHawksFan said:

The problem I have with JC is the same as I've always said about him, he requires someone else to feed him for him to have any impact on the game whatsoever.  And even then, he just disappears far too often.  

In the postseason order of business, I would extend Kevin before I even worried about JC.  I think Kevin is way more important to the long term health and success of this franchise than JC is.  And he's proven that in these first 7 games of the playoffs. The only problem I have with just letting JC walk is they wouldn't have any money to replace him and they still need a 4. JC isn't worthless, he's just not overly impactful, to me.   

So I guess for me, the proper play is exactly what @thecampster said to do, match whatever the market says and then try to trade him in a year for someone that makes more sense on this roster.  

I don't hate JC, I just don't think he's impactful at all.   

The problem with that is it's not that easy to trade some one who people think is overpaid and the value back might be trash. 

Sacramento signed Hield and was like, we can trade him if it don't work out. Who wants him at that contract? Nobody, even the teams who was willing to sign all of a sudden don't want him unless you get nothing in return or negative value 

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

The problem with that is it's not that easy to trade some one who people think is overpaid and the value back might be trash. 

Sacramento signed Hield and was like, we can trade him if it don't work out. Who wants him at that contract? Nobody, even the teams who was willing to sign all of a sudden don't want him unless you get nothing in return or negative value 

Well the alternative is to let him walk for nothing or hope he takes a hometown discount.  I don't see the latter happening and I think the former would set the team back too much.  Someone's going to offer him more than he's probably worth.  Hawks either match or let him walk.  I'd match and hope one of 2 things happens.  Either 1, JC continues to evolve and becomes a playmaker with a handle that justifies the contract OR 2, they find a trade in the future that makes sense and nets them a reasonable return.